Question for OMFS residents out there...

[Scientist1]

I need to know honestly if the dental school that you graduated from really matters in getting into a good 6 year OMS program? If you get 2 applicants with the same stats and scores, but one from a public state school other from an Ivy private school, is the Ivy one looked at better? I know that the schools will say that they look at everyone equally, but is that honestly true? The only reason I didn't go to an Ivy school was to save a 100K, to me the education level seemed the same, was that a mistake? Your honest opinion is appreciated...

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[ktcook83]

I need to know honestly if the dental school that you graduated from really matters in getting into a good 6 year OMS program? If you get 2 applicants with the same stats and scores, but one from a public state school other from an Ivy private school, is the Ivy one looked at better? I know that the schools will say that they look at everyone equally, but is that honestly true? The only reason I didn't go to an Ivy school was to save a 100K, to me the education level seemed the same, was that a mistake? Your honest opinion is appreciated...

This question comes up at least once a week. You'll have the same shot from either school. I, like you, choose to save myself 120K and go to my state school rather than Penn. I mean, Penn was great and all, but not 30K more per year great. On the list of what matters for getting into residency, which school you attended has to be somewhere way down there with previous military experience (unless you are applying to one of the military OMS programs ) Bottom line: be glad you saved yourself 100K

 

[DDSSlave]

If you get 2 applicants with the same stats and scores, but one from a public state school other from an Ivy private school, is the Ivy one looked at better?

It would never come down to just numbers. Your numbers will help land you an interview. Once there, it comes down to how much the oral surgeons like you. I suspect in OMFS that means how nice a guy you are, how passionate about surgery you are, and how many hours, how much work, and how much pressure you're willing to take without complaining.

 

[Brutus0725]

This question comes up at least once a week. You'll have the same shot from either school. I, like you, choose to save myself 120K and go to my state school rather than Penn. I mean, Penn was great and all, but not 30K more per year great. On the list of what matters for getting into residency, which school you attended has to be somewhere way down there with previous military experience (unless you are applying to one of the military OMS programs ) Bottom line: be glad you saved yourself 100K

Ktcook83,

How would you know??? YOu haven't even started dental school yet?!? You talk like you are in an OMFS program already......lol



To address the question. It can matter! How, you ask? It is not just about grades, it is about the people you know. At my school, I have meet and have been introduced to some very influential people. I know people that have gotten into programs on just knowing the right person, or should I say the right person knowing them, and there work ethics. It is so far from being just about the numbers. I am speaking from experience not just speaking.

I can tell you of Upenn students that have 4.0 and 99 borad scorse that don't match, because they have no personality and haven't made themselves avaliable to all of the resources around them.

I had to make the same choice when I stated my program. I was already in a dental school in a dual degree program and the DEAN, told me I should go to Upenn. He then told me it was a great school and could allow me to meet the right people to help me get into the program I want. The dean of the school I'm speaking of went to Harvard for his postdoc. His words were, "I would be lying to you if I told you that going to Harvard hasn't helped me in my career." Also, the dean of my graduate school told me the samething, and he went to Duke Med! I didn't even know that Penn was an Ivy school until someone told me after I got accepted.....

I came to Penn because of what I was told about the school and the fact that the dean at the time was an OMFS. He has written several books on OMF procedures and even pioneered a couple! He is my mentor and is helping me make the right choices on what I need to do to become an OMS myself. I have been to other dental school OMS programs and residents and falculty alike were excited just because I knew him personally. One of the residents said to me, "When every we get to a sticking point in a procedure, or should I say have a difference in oppinion, my attending would say, well this is the way Dr. Fonseca does it so this is what we will do." Now you tell me that doesn't hold weight!?!

Certain school will always be viewed a certain way just based on reputation, and the same goes for people. I looked at how may people at my previous dental school were mataching in OMS comparied to Upenn, and that made my choice.....

It might not be the school, but it can be the people that you meet while you are there.....

 

[GatorDMD]

Ktcook83,



I can tell you of Upenn students that have 4.0 and 99 borad scorse that don't match, because they have no personality and haven't made themselves avaliable to all of the resources around them.


)

Hey I know this guy...but he got in this year.

 

[omfsres]

At my program we have several interviewees from Penn, and yes, fonseca will give some his personal stamp of approval. If is came to a decision between two applicants of equal strength, this eval would not tip the scale. In fact, there was one applicant whose letter said he recommends this student the highest of all that applied that year and we didn't even rank the guy. So coming from a real resident, school name doesn't mean squat, at least at my program.

 

[Yah-E]

At my program we have several interviewees from Penn, and yes, fonseca will give some his personal stamp of approval. If is came to a decision between two applicants of equal strength, this eval would not tip the scale. So coming from a real resident, school name doesn't mean squat, at least at my program.

Question is what "tips" the scale? Is it personality, appearance, how much he can bench, how fast he can run a 40, does he have a hot girlfriend....

Speaking honestly, I would assume that most programs invite their externs back for interviews (given that these externs placed a positive impressions), then how do you "tip" the scale?

Would this applicant get in?

Sex: male
Age: 27
Weight:185
Height: 5'11"
NBDE Part 1: 93
Class Rank: 4/95
Girlfriend: Jessica Alba
Letter Writters: President Bush, Tom Cruise, The Pope
Slams a can of beer: 2.65 seconds
Max bench: 305
Externships: 6 totaling 3.5 months

 

[GatorDMD]

Question is what "tips" the scale? Is it personality, appearance, how much he can bench, how fast he can run a 40, does he have a hot girlfriend....

Speaking honestly, I would assume that most programs invite their externs back for interviews (given that these externs placed a positive impressions), then how do you "tip" the scale?

Would this applicant get in?

Sex: male
Age: 27
Weight:185
Height: 5'11"
NBDE Part 1: 93
Class Rank: 4/95
Girlfriend: Jessica Alba
Letter Writters: President Bush, Tom Cruise, The Pope
Slams a can of beer: 2.65 seconds
Max bench: 305
Externships: 6 totaling 3.5 months

sounds alot like my stats but I am 6'1''not 5'11''.

 

[Yah-E]

sounds alot like my numbers but I am 6'1''not 5'11''.

But do you have Jessica though?

 

[GatorDMD]

But do you have Jessica though?

i have better.

by the way where were u with the rest of your cronies at FNDC?

 

[Yah-E]

i have better.

by the way where were u with the rest of your cronies at FNDC?

I heard you've met one of my classmates, I was in Chicago for the 4th weekend and then working in the clinic during the week trying to bust out some clinical requirements since I'm leaving the clinic again this Friday for a month to do more externships. Hopefully, we'll meet on the interview trails!

You can't have Jessica, I will have Jessica! Damn, she's hot!

 

[ktcook83]

Ktcook83,

How would you know??? YOu haven't even started dental school yet?!? You talk like you are in an OMFS program already......lol

To address the question. It can matter! How, you ask? It is not just about grades, it is about the people you know. At my school, I have meet and have been introduced to some very influential people. I know people that have gotten into programs on just knowing the right person, or should I say the right person knowing them, and there work ethics. It is so far from being just about the numbers. I am speaking from experience not just speaking.

I can tell you of Upenn students that have 4.0 and 99 borad scorse that don't match, because they have no personality and haven't made themselves avaliable to all of the resources around them.

I had to make the same choice when I stated my program. I was already in a dental school in a dual degree program and the DEAN, told me I should go to Upenn. He then told me it was a great school and could allow me to meet the right people to help me get into the program I want. The dean of the school I'm speaking of went to Harvard for his postdoc. His words were, "I would be lying to you if I told you that going to Harvard hasn't helped me in my career." Also, the dean of my graduate school told me the samething, and he went to Duke Med! I didn't even know that Penn was an Ivy school until someone told me after I got accepted.....

I came to Penn because of what I was told about the school and the fact that the dean at the time was an OMFS. He has written several books on OMF procedures and even pioneered a couple! He is my mentor and is helping me make the right choices on what I need to do to become an OMS myself. I have been to other dental school OMS programs and residents and falculty alike were excited just because I knew him personally. One of the residents said to me, "When every we get to a sticking point in a procedure, or should I say have a difference in oppinion, my attending would say, well this is the way Dr. Fonseca does it so this is what we will do." Now you tell me that doesn't hold weight!?!

Certain school will always be viewed a certain way just based on reputation, and the same goes for people. I looked at how may people at my previous dental school were mataching in OMS comparied to Upenn, and that made my choice.....

It might not be the school, but it can be the people that you meet while you are there.....

Though I haven't started dental school yet, I know plenty about it. I did research at the D school throughout undergrad and know many dental students, one of which is my roommate next year. I don't care anyway if you want to question my credibilty... I don't care if the OP doesn't listen to my advice. But if he does, he can save 100K and still get into a residency like most of the OMS residents around here who didn't go to quote, "IVY LEAGUE" dental schools. They got into their respective residencies and they owe the bank less than most Penn dental alums.

Knowing people always helps - politics always comes into play, that's life. But of course a 4.0 student with 99 NBDE's can have a terrible chair-side manner and horrible social skills and be denied a match.

I'm glad that you're tight with Fonseca. Great guy no doubt, and very well respected in the OMS circle. The funny thing is that when I interviewed at Penn, they took us right by the OS clinic and didn't shut up about how many connections they had and how they could call program directors and get you in wherever you wanted. Just like at UConn they couldn't shut up about their great board scores. All schools are going to do this... they have to make you think you're getting something for that extra 30K a year.

You act as if some state schools don't have great OMS programs and well-respected program directors. For example, I know Michigan is up and coming and it wouldn't hurt to be mentored by Helman.

BTW... how did you not know Penn was Ivy? I think they reminded me about 20 times during the interview

 

[ktcook83]

Insert OWN3D picture here

 

[north2southOMFS]

Ktcook83,


To address the question. It can matter! .....................
..................... and the DEAN, told me I should go to Upenn. He then told me it was a great school and could allow me to meet the right people to help me get into the program I want. The dean of the school I'm speaking of went to Harvard for his postdoc.

Why do you think he told you it matters?

BECAUSE HE WENT TO ONE!!!!!!!!!!

Remember, he is not one of many Oral surgeons that didn't go to an ivy league school that are much more influential in the OMFS world.

"When every we get to a sticking point in a procedure, or should I say have a difference in oppinion, my attending would say, well this is the way Dr. Fonseca does it so this is what we will do." Now you tell me that doesn't hold weight!?!

I don't know what kind of OMFS programs you've been to, but when my attending operates, he says "well this is the way I do it", assuming maybe because he edited a book also? No, just because he's a good surgeon.

Certain school will always be viewed a certain way just based on reputation, and the same goes for people.

Yes, and trust me. Ivy league does not always equal great, hard working, HUMBLE, resident. So it really comes down to the interview and hopefully they did an externship with us.

 

[OMFSdoc]

Wow, Penn is taking a lot of crap on this thread. It is a good dental school, just like Columbia, Tufts, Harvard, UCLA, Maryland, UCSF, Michigan, UF, etc... Programs are looking for applicants with good numbers in order to make interview cuts, then they just want someone with a good personality that will fit in and not make waves. Dental school name doesn't matter. Once you are at the interview, everyone is on an equal playing field no matter where you went to school.

 

[GatorDMD]

Wow, Penn is taking a lot of crap on this thread. It is a good dental school, just like Columbia, Tufts, Harvard, UCLA, Maryland, UCSF, Michigan, UF, etc... Programs are looking for applicants with good numbers in order to make interview cuts, then they just want someone with a good personality that will fit in and not make waves. Dental school name doesn't matter. Once you are at the interview, everyone is on an equal playing field no matter where you went to school.

yeaahhhh!!! UF made the good school list! I am a shoe in! Of course I wish.

 

[toofache32]

Dental school name doesn't matter. Once you are at the interview, everyone is on an equal playing field no matter where you went to school.

What he said.

 

[toofache32]

sounds alot like my stats but I am 6'1''not 5'11''.

Yeah, I remember you were a tall one. But we still need a picture of your girlfriend.

 

[DDSSlave]

I don't know what kind of OMFS programs you've been to, but when my attending operates, he says "well this is the way I do it", assuming maybe because he edited a book also? No, just because he's a good surgeon.

I remember hearing that in the OR. It was prefaced by, "what the *** do you think you're doing?! Get out of the way!"

 

[Brutus0725]

At my program we have several interviewees from Penn, and yes, fonseca will give some his personal stamp of approval. If is came to a decision between two applicants of equal strength, this eval would not tip the scale. In fact, there was one applicant whose letter said he recommends this student the highest of all that applied that year and we didn't even rank the guy. So coming from a real resident, school name doesn't mean squat, at least at my program.

I didn't say that it is a shoe in... I am said that it is good to have someone to help you get to were you are going. I will still have my 90+ boards and 3.5+ GPA. I am just saying it is good to know well respected OMFS that can direct you. It might be as simple as telling me which programs that I don't want to be a part of and why. And, I am not saying Fonseca only, just using him as an example. It is like going to do an externship and making a good impression when you meet or work with someone.

One of the other trends spoke of how you can make a bad impression at an externship that could ruin your chances at another program because people talk, expecially within the same field. Why is it that someone in the same position counldn't say something good about that same person in that same phone conversation that might be in your favor. I thought that was the reason we have recommendation letters in the first place????? Who you know in LIFE, is always something that can help you. Just my .02

 

[Brutus0725]

Though I haven't started dental school yet, I know plenty about it. I did research at the D school throughout undergrad and know many dental students, one of which is my roommate next year. I don't care anyway if you want to question my credibilty... I don't care if the OP doesn't listen to my advice. But if he does, he can save 100K and still get into a residency like most of the OMS residents around here who didn't go to quote, "IVY LEAGUE" dental schools. They got into their respective residencies and they owe the bank less than most Penn dental alums.

Knowing people always helps - politics always comes into play, that's life. But of course a 4.0 student with 99 NBDE's can have a terrible chair-side manner and horrible social skills and be denied a match.

I'm glad that you're tight with Fonseca. Great guy no doubt, and very well respected in the OMS circle. The funny thing is that when I interviewed at Penn, they took us right by the OS clinic and didn't shut up about how many connections they had and how they could call program directors and get you in wherever you wanted. Just like at UConn they couldn't shut up about their great board scores. All schools are going to do this... they have to make you think you're getting something for that extra 30K a year.

You act as if some state schools don't have great OMS programs and well-respected program directors. For example, I know Michigan is up and coming and it wouldn't hurt to be mentored by Helman.

BTW... how did you not know Penn was Ivy? I think they reminded me about 20 times during the interview

Like I said, I didn't even know it was an Ivy leage school when I applied. Everyone at my previous dental school made a big deal about it, I didn't want to go. I didn't want to move again.

There is nothing wrong with state schools. I have been at 3 state schools before Penn. And of course you can get into an OMFS program from a state school.

As far as money, it was a issue for me also but............I got a scholarship

 

[Brutus0725]

Why do you think he told you it matters?

BECAUSE HE WENT TO ONE!!!!!!!!!!

Remember, he is not one of many Oral surgeons that didn't go to an ivy league school that are much more influential in the OMFS world.




I don't know what kind of OMFS programs you've been to, but when my attending operates, he says "well this is the way I do it", assuming maybe because he edited a book also? No, just because he's a good surgeon.



Yes, and trust me. Ivy league does not always equal great, hard working, HUMBLE, resident. So it really comes down to the interview and hopefully they did an externship with us.

Man, you guys act as if I think I will get in to every program that I apply to jsut because I go to Upenn! THAT IS NOT THE CASE!

I was just trying to give a different prospective on picking a dental school. Just saying that it is not about the name of the school but you might be inspired by the people you meet when you get there. Or build relationships that don't have a price tag on it.

When I first decided to go to dental school I was looking for the cheapest school I could find. Then after 2 1/2 at a dental/medical school, I started looking for the best dental education and the program with the most experiences.

ALL DENTAL SCHOOLS ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dental school I did my masters at focused on making there graduates the best general dentist they can. It didn't give the students as much opportunity to explore or experience different specialties. There are programs that dentist graduate from and have only done one root canal on there own...... That is all I'm saying. If it wan't the case, then everyone would go to the cheapest school they could find in undergrade also... Or we would all drive the same car....

I was only trying to shed light that there is more to picking a school than just name of the school or how much it cost. They ALL have different graduation requirements and different teachers!

The school itself might not make a difference in my application, but my prospecitive, after my experience at that school might make me a better applicant overall.

 

[north2southOMFS]

Now don't you make me send Kip the cage fighter after your ass!

 

[ItsGavinC]

One of the residents said to me, "When every we get to a sticking point in a procedure, or should I say have a difference in oppinion, my attending would say, well this is the way Dr. Fonseca does it so this is what we will do." Now you tell me that doesn't hold weight!?!

Depends on if the way Fonseca does it is the way they did it in 1980, or the way it is done in 2005.

I don't think it carries much weight, but to each his own (and therein is the point).

 

[toofache32]

I still don't understand what "Ivy League" means.

 

[north2southOMFS]

I still don't understand what "Ivy League" means.

One step above "bush league"?

 

[north2southOMFS]

ALL DENTAL SCHOOLS ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, your right. They are not the same. They all have different tuition, are in different towns, and have different names.

 

[tx oms]

Once again, here's this year's incoming Ivy League class:

 

[drhobie7]

One step above "bush league"?

Dude, I love the Bush League.

 

[Brutus0725]

You guys are a bunch of haters.....lol I read the board all the time and see how you attack Ivy schools.... Sorry I picked the wrong dental school.....lol...lol...

Just trying to give my opinion about the question.... Next time, I will let the know-it-all memebers, with 10,000+ post, tell everyone that comes to the board their opinions, while bashing everyone elses...

 

[tx oms]

You guys are a bunch of haters.....lol I read the board all the time and see how you attack Ivy schools.... Sorry I picked the wrong dental school.....lol...lol...

Just trying to give my opinion about the question.... Next time, I will let the know-it-all memebers, with 10,000+ post, tell everyone that comes to the board their opinions, while bashing everyone elses...

Good. Now, go polish a wax rim.

 

[omfresident]

Ok, your right. They are not the same. They all have different tuition, are in different towns, and have different names.

Dental schools matter. The only people who don'y think so probably came from a middle-of-the-road school. I see a big difference with kids coming from different schools on externship. I can think of a few schools I would hate to see us take and several I wish we took more of. Its unfortunate their is such a strong showing of southern redneck hicks on this site.

 

[omfresident]

Depends on if the way Fonseca does it is the way they did it in 1980, or the way it is done in 2005.

I don't think it carries much weight, but to each his own (and therein is the point).

Point well made here....Your comments always make me cringe.

 

[tx oms]

Dental schools matter. The only people who don'y think so probably came from a middle-of-the-road school. I see a big difference with kids coming from different schools on externship. I can think of a few schools I would hate to see us take and several I wish we took more of. Its unfortunate their is such a strong showing of southern redneck hicks on this site.

The southern externs I've seen are generally the best.

 

[GatorDMD]

The southern externs I've seen are generally the best.

Yeeeahhhhh! Wait a second... Hope that includes me...

 

[GatorDMD]

i heard ucsf is now a 6 year program and not 7 anymore for the non IV's? any truth to this? Cali I think is a bit too far from FLA.

 

[aphistis]

Dental schools matter. The only people who don'y think so probably came from a middle-of-the-road school. I see a big difference with kids coming from different schools on externship. I can think of a few schools I would hate to see us take and several I wish we took more of. Its unfortunate their is such a strong showing of southern redneck hicks on this site.

I agree, we should pay more attention to what wizards like you have to say--so try not to get banned a fourth or fifth or whichever time this will be when it inevitably happens.

 

[north2southOMFS]

Its unfortunate their is such a strong showing of southern redneck hicks on this site.

I'm from Wisconsin Genius.

 

[ewsmith]

FYI,

It really does not matter what dental school you graduate from. Board scores, GPA, class rank will get the interview and then it is up to you not to screw up the interview.

Also, it is good to be involved with yor OMFS team during dental school, but it is much more important to get good grades and board score, as these land interviews; trying to buddy up to the OMFS guys does not.

Mich OMFS 3rd year

P.S. Tread softly.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

Once again, here's this year's incoming Ivy League class:

Love it, TX. The only "great" thing I've seen from Ivy's is an ego, until they spend an hour slicking a central. It's almost as if you can see them thinking, "This looked a lot easier when I was reading about it."

I went to a dental school which didn't have an OMS residency program, and I still got in despite not knowing any of the "right people". Who you know may help you, but no one wants a cheesedick, even if he's a highly recommended cheesedick.

 

[Periogod]

Love it, TX. The only "great" thing I've seen from Ivy's is an ego, until they spend an hour slicking a central. It's almost as if you can see them thinking, "This looked a lot easier when I was reading about it."

I went to a dental school which didn't have an OMS residency program, and I still got in despite not knowing any of the "right people". Who you know may help you, but no one wants a cheesedick, even if he's a highly recommended cheesedick.

Now we know some people want cheesedicks OMFS. Look at our programs. You and I are the two biggest dicks I know and we got in to residency programs.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

Now we know some people want cheesedicks OMFS. Look at our programs. You and I are the two biggest dicks I know and we got in to residency programs.

Periogod,

Let me clarify. I wasn't talking about you licking cheese off my dick. You were great, don't misunderstand. I was using the phrase "cheesedick" to describe a person with no personality, or possibly someone who likes to shop in his free time.

However, a good ol' fashioned dick, I am...

 

[GatorDMD]

Periogod,

Let me clarify. I wasn't talking about you licking cheese off my dick. You were great, don't misunderstand. I was using the phrase "cheesedick" to describe a person with no personality, or possibly someone who likes to shop in his free time.

However, a good ol' fashioned dick, I am...

 

[Doggie]

You guys are a bunch of haters.....lol I read the board all the time and see how you attack Ivy schools.... Sorry I picked the wrong dental school.....lol...lol...

Just trying to give my opinion about the question.... Next time, I will let the know-it-all memebers, with 10,000+ post, tell everyone that comes to the board their opinions, while bashing everyone elses...

Yeah, dont mind these guys. Just wait till you get into an omfs program that is better than theirs BECAUSE you went to an ivy league school.........and then they will all shut up! hahaha...

 

[Doggie]

The southern externs I've seen are generally the best.

Hmmmm...........are you including Yah-E in that too?

 

[Yah-E]

Hmmmm...........are you including Yah-E in that too?

Best extern EVER!

 

[tx oms]

Yeah, dont mind these guys. Just wait till you get into an omfs program that is better than theirs BECAUSE you went to an ivy league school.........and then they will all shut up! hahaha...

There's a Columbia guy here. Even with an Ivy League background he managed to get into a good residency.

 

[Doggie]

There's a Columbia guy here. Even with an Ivy League background he managed to get into a good residency.

Yeah, I feel sorry for him getting in his 10th choice.

 

[tx oms]

Yeah, I feel sorry for him getting in his 10th choice.

Whatever makes you feel better about all the money you're wasting and the fact that you need a crutch to get into residency.

 

[dentalpenn]

Penn by far has the most bitter students, in residency meeting people from other schools and seeing how much they liked their schools really makes me upset that I spent so much money for a bad experience. We are treated like trash there by an administration that does not care about us all they care about is the bottom line.

However do I think that going to Penn has helped me get into one of the most competitvie residency programs at one of the top institutions in the world....of course! Penn alum are everywhere, many are program directors, Chairs of departments, and deans of dental schools and many of these people attended Penn in its hayday, and are fond of Penn and their students. Penn does have a good reputation in acadamia, but if I had decided to go to another institution would I be in the position that I am...I guess we will never know.

So when my coresidents ask how did I like Penn, my simple reply is that it got me where I wanted to go.

Just an opinion by a Penn alum, that has been through the whole process.