Prematch spots

[hahmth]

What is everyone's opinon on this practice of offering prematch spots? Is it safe (i.e. could the applicant get shafted in the end)? Is it wise (especially so early on in the process)? Any insight would be much appreciated!

Thanks!

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[ben dover]

heffalumps and woozles are very confusals, become they come in every shape and size, size, size, size! beware of what you choosal so you don't losal... (taken from my kids Pooh Bear video in case you were wondering)

 

[Apollyon]

"Hi Ben, nice to meet ya!"

"Woo, using the whole fist there, doc?"


Sorry for the guest visit - just stopped to look, and this user name brought back the old memories!

On a more serious note, if you are going to be a US grad, and you sign for a prematch spot, you could get hammered hard.

This is directly from the NRMP:

"Examples of Violations . . .

...

A program accepts and signs an agreement with a U.S. senior before Match Day."

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/integrity.html

The only question I do not have an answer to is: damages, in re: can your contract be cancelled, and you out of a job, if this is discovered?

 

[OldManDave]

As competitive as anesthesia has rapidly become, I do not believe that too many slots will be offered pre-match. I especially doubt that this will occur at any of the more competitive anesthesiology programs -- they simply do not have to do this. As best as I understand it, programs generally are compelled to do this if their applicant pool is rather weak or if they do not have a history of drawing the more choice applicants and you happen to be one.

I have inquired, from the Admin/Coordinator, about the complexion of the applicant pool at several programs so far. Virtually all of them have described this year's pool as not much larger than last years (which had grown explosively over the previous year), but comprised overwhelmingly of US medical school graduates-to-be vs predominantly IMGs & FMGs of years prior. They have also consistently described the applicants' "numbers" being much higher than last year's group...making this year even more competitive than the last cycle.

Of course, this is all largely my opinions & drawn from inference and second-hand info. But all it all seems to point to pre-match positions being offered as very unlikely indeed. And, I would wary of any program offering them. I would want to know why they felt it was necessary to do so. I would not be so naive as to think myself the "golden child" & the deep desire of a program. The more probable scenario is that the program was not impressed with their applicants and is seeking to land what stronger residents they can manage to sign.

Beginning next cycle, programs will no longer be able to hold positions outside of the match. To participate in the NRMP, a program must contract for 100% or zero of its available slots.

 

[nychick]

I'm sorry, but y'all really haven't answered poor hahmth's question. I can't either, but I'd like to rephrase it in an attempt to get an answer to what I think s/he is asking.

OK, let's assume that hahmth is either an IMG or a DO and is thus qualified to contract for a prematch position, that is, it is not illegal or against match rules for him/her to do so.

Let us further assume that s/he has x number of interviews, and is not yet done with all of them.

Now a program offers a prematch position with the stipulation that hahmth must accept right away or the offer expires. hahmth, this would make me very wary. On the other hand, if the offer stays open and you are given the time to see other places and then make up your mind given what you have seen, that is another matter entirely.

Let's face it, if you were to make your theorical ROL and the program that wants to prematch you ends up being your top choice, it seems like you have nothing to lose, right?

This in turn raises the question: could you get shafted in some way by taking this offer--which requires that you withdraw from the match--and then later find out that the program you contracted with is backing out or in some other way reneging on your deal?

 

[soon2bdoc2003]

I took a prematch spot for my prelim year. I already signed the contract so I dont see how they could back out at this point without serious implications for their program. On the other hand, I may have to shaft them if I wind up matching into a 4 year spot. Out of 12 interviews 3 of them are at 4 year programs, 1 of which absolutely requires you to be there for all 4 years. I think if I was offered a spot in one of my top 3 programs i would sign on the spot, however I really like my prospects at a number of strong programs so I think I'll take my chances in the match.

 

[dA pilot]

Originally posted by soon2bdoc2003
I took a prematch spot for my prelim year. I already signed the contract so I dont see how they could back out at this point without serious implications for their program. On the other hand, I may have to shaft them if I wind up matching into a 4 year spot. Out of 12 interviews 3 of them are at 4 year programs, 1 of which absolutely requires you to be there for all 4 years. I think if I was offered a spot in one of my top 3 programs i would sign on the spot, however I really like my prospects at a number of strong programs so I think I'll take my chances in the match.

What if you match at a 4 year program? How do you plan on getting out of your contract? You state that you can't see them backing out, but you expect the privilege to back out yourself? I find this unfair to the rest of us applicants and the program itself that you take this tactic.

 

[Sevo]

Originally posted by soon2bdoc2003
I took a prematch spot for my prelim year. I already signed the contract so I dont see how they could back out at this point without serious implications for their program. On the other hand, I may have to shaft them if I wind up matching into a 4 year spot. Out of 12 interviews 3 of them are at 4 year programs, 1 of which absolutely requires you to be there for all 4 years. I think if I was offered a spot in one of my top 3 programs i would sign on the spot, however I really like my prospects at a number of strong programs so I think I'll take my chances in the match.

Once you sign a binding employment contract, you're stuck -- legally and ethically -- with that employer. Regardless of the match results, you're already legally obligated to do your preliminary year with that hospital.

If you decide to do the dishonarable thing and try to back out of your obligations to your preliminary year program if you end up matching into your 4 year program, you could easily end up losing both jobs.

 

[soon2bdoc2003]

Originally posted by Sevo
Once you sign a binding employment contract, you're stuck -- legally and ethically -- with that employer. Regardless of the match results, you're already legally obligated to do your preliminary year with that hospital.

If you decide to do the dishonarable thing and try to back out of your obligations to your preliminary year program if you end up matching into your 4 year program, you could easily end up losing both jobs.

I have already discussed this with the PD and he is willing to work with me when the time comes. Medicine is too small of a world to begin burning bridges, I am well aware of that myself.

 

[OldManDave]

The meaning b/t the lines of my rambling reply is that I would be very wary of any program who felt it necessary to offer prematch anesthesiology slots in light of an expanding and increasingly competitive applicant pool. I would not contest this to also be true for prelim-only slots...only for anesthesiology. In an owner's market, an owner being desparate enough to violate the rules to assure they obtain adequate residents would set off massive warning bells for me...what are they hiding?

OTOH, if you have physically done a clerkship or spent considerable time at a program and it impresses you AND they decide to offer you a prematch slot -- that is a different story. If you know it is a quality program and they know you are a quality applicant -- then go for it!

 

[soon2bdoc2003]

doing some research.. since 3 yr programs are matching into 2004 year.. by NRMP rules they cant offer you a prematch spot. The only way they can prematch you is to give you a pgy1 spot and pull their ca1 spot from the match. Not strictly against NRMP rules but shady enough that no university program should consider it.

Wow you learn alot of useless crap after a dozen interviews.

 

[kfc]

I've received a pre-match offer from a 3-year program..so I guess they aren't following the rules (If above is true). It was a tempting offer, but I have decided to go through the match.

One question though - If one has a prelim offer from another hospital, is is OK to offer them a spot in a 3-year program?

Once again, I'll just leave my fate up to the Match.

 

[prominence]

Originally posted by kfc
I've received a pre-match offer from a 3-year program..so I guess they aren't following the rules (If above is true). It was a tempting offer, but I have decided to go through the match.

kfc,

do u mind sharing what program made u this pre-match offer?

 

[OldManDave]

It is not against the current rules if you are a DO-grad or an IMG/FMG. The rules currently only preclude offering positions outside of thematch to MD-to-be grads. However, with the next match cycle, that is when programs will no longer be allowed to sign anyone, no matter DO or IMG/FMG, outside the match.

 

[nychick]

However, with the next match cycle, that is when programs will no longer be allowed to sign anyone, no matter DO or IMG/FMG, outside the match.

[I think I finally figured out how to quote... ]

The above statement is true IF the program chooses to participate in the Match. Some programs that currently fill with IMG/FMG candidates mostly may opt out of the Match entirely and only do pre-matching. I don't know there are any programs like that in anesthesiology, but I've heard of some in other areas, mainly primary care fields.

 

[OldManDave]

Good point NYChick, I neglected to make that distinction. Beginning with the 2004 match, the NRMP will require all programs to either offer 100% of their slots or zero; therefore, no holding out of spots to sign folks into prematch contracts.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[kfc]

Originally posted by prominence
kfc,

do u mind sharing what program made u this pre-match offer?

Sorry - Not before match day!! I'll divulge any bit of info on March 21st!! I still plan on ranking this program #3 (it is my wife's #2 and my #4 - isn't the couples match great...)

Just to let you know - it was a Northeast program - not in anyone's top 5 (I think top 5 really equals top 20), but could be a great place to be from in 5-10 years.

Come back at me after Match Day. I'd be willing to answer anything about the process.

 

[prominence]

ok, kfc. thanks.