Possible 3x reapplicant advice (high-ish stats)

[bonk215]

3.7/521, Maryland resident and ORM. I only got 3 II and no A's after applying to 30 schools, so I will likely be applying for the 3rd time next cycle. I am waiting to hear back from one school. I have ~400 clinical volunteering hours, ~120 nonclinical volunteering, extensive leadership in non-premed related clubs, and thousands of hours of research including poster presentations.
Honestly, this cycle devastated me (I was so close!), but my MCAT from Aug 2020 doesn't expire until next year, so I have one more shot. What went wrong my first cycle was that I was pressured by someone to apply right after receiving my MCAT score and thus I applied late.

As for this current cycle:

Mistakes/Problems

• Little shadowing experience (only 64 hours in 2 specialties)
• I only submitted 1 science LOR in my committee letter, not realizing that 2 is an absolute requirement for most schools
• No clinical volunteering since the pandemic
• Possible poor interview skills (?)

Good parts of my app

• I think my personal statement and secondaries were pretty compelling, and had lots of people look them over
• I applied broadly (I think?)
• 

Changes for upcoming cycle

• Will rewrite secondaries and PS based on new experiences
• New shadowing in a new specialty, another 35 hours
• I'm looking for any clinical volunteering that I can squeeze in before May
• Potential publication (case study with physician I shadowed)
• Adding that 2nd science LOR

Questions

• How many schools, and which ones?
• Should I apply DO?
• I'm also concerned that my school's prehealth committee only allows 5 letters, while I have 7 lined up. Since I have 2 science, 1 humanities, 1 research, 2 shadowing, and 1 clinical volunteering, which should I choose?
• How many more hours of clinical volunteering should I have? Is there anything else I can do?

Thank you! If anyone wants it, I can post my school list. And I also asked a lot of schools for app feedback, but they said to wait until April...

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[clairish]

What is the school list?

 

[bonk215]

What is the school list?

Albany Medical College
Albert Einstein
Rosalind Franklin
Columbia
Hofstra
Drexel
Emory
Geisel
GWU
Georgetown
USC
Temple
NYMC
NYULISOM
Feinberg
OHSU
Penn State
UPenn
TJU
Brown
UCSF
Maryland
University of Michigan
UNC
University of Rochester
University of Wisconsin
USF
VCU
Wake Forest
Weill Cornell

 

[Faha]

Where were your interviews ?

 

[bonk215]

Where were your interviews ?

VCU, NYULISOM, and USF

 

[Faha]

You could still receive an acceptance. There will be a lot of waitlist movement in late April and May. If you end up reapplying I suggest these schools:
U Maryland
VCU
NYULISOM
USF
George Washington
Eastern Virginia
Duke
Miami
Tulane
St. Louis
Vanderbilt
Washington University
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
U Michigan
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Jefferson
Drexel
Temple
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Rochester
Vermont
Tufts
Boston University
Quinnipiac
TCU-UNT
Hackensack
Also include DO schools and I suggest these:
PCOM
NYITCOM
Touro-NY
CUSOM
DMU-COM
MU-COM
CCOM
AZCOM
DMU-COM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
WESTERN
TUCOM-CA

 

[bonk215]

You could still receive an acceptance. There will be a lot of waitlist movement in late April and May. If you end up reapplying I suggest these schools:
U Maryland
VCU
NYULISOM
USF
George Washington
Eastern Virginia
Duke
Miami
Tulane
St. Louis
Vanderbilt
Washington University
Medical College Wisconsin
Western Michigan
Oakland Beaumont
U Michigan
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
Pittsburgh
Jefferson
Drexel
Temple
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Rochester
Vermont
Tufts
Boston University
Quinnipiac
TCU-UNT
Hackensack
Also include DO schools and I suggest these:
PCOM
NYITCOM
Touro-NY
CUSOM
DMU-COM
MU-COM
CCOM
AZCOM
DMU-COM
KCU-COM
ATSU-KCOM
WESTERN
TUCOM-CA

Thank you!

 

[chilly_md]

Remove Oakland, Drexel, TCU and Quinnipiac. They are unlikely to consider you as you have an MCAT that is much higher than students they usually accept. You have very low non-clinical volunteering hours. What was this in? Medicine is an altruistic field and it is expected that you have given time to helping the underserved and those less fortunate.

 

[bonk215]

Remove Oakland, Drexel, TCU and Quinnipiac. They are unlikely to consider you as you have an MCAT that is much higher than students they usually accept. You have very low non-clinical volunteering hours. What was this in? Medicine is an altruistic field and it is expected that you have given time to helping the underserved and those less fortunate.

As for the non-clinical volunteering, I started a weekly painting class at a senior center in a majority-immigrant neighborhood that I taught for 1.5 years until the pandemic. I have more through another extracurricular, but I already have that extracurricular listed as a club rather than a volunteering thing, so maybe I'll create a separate entry for that.

 

[chilly_md]

As for the non-clinical volunteering, I started a weekly painting class at a senior center in a majority-immigrant neighborhood that I taught for 1.5 years until the pandemic. I have more through another extracurricular, but I already have that extracurricular listed as a club rather than a volunteering thing, so maybe I'll create a separate entry for that.

You may want to pursue something related to helping out at your local homeless shelter, soup kitchen, food bank etc. While starting a painting class is interesting, teaching and tutoring are very common activities and do not really get you out of your comfort zone.

 

[bonk215]

You may want to pursue something related to helping out at your local homeless shelter, soup kitchen, food bank etc. While starting a painting class is interesting, teaching and tutoring are very common activities and do not really get you out of your comfort zone.

Signing up for something now! Thanks for the advice

 

[MateoGM416]

Remove Oakland, Drexel, TCU and Quinnipiac. They are unlikely to consider you as you have an MCAT that is much higher than students they usually accept. You have very low non-clinical volunteering hours. What was this in? Medicine is an altruistic field and it is expected that you have given time to helping the underserved and those less fortunate.

Wait, do schools really screen out applicants because of their MCAT scores being too high?

 

[chilly_md]

Wait, do schools really screen out applicants because of their MCAT scores being too high?

Yes, it’s called yield-protection. They can offer a limited number of interviews, and schools have the data about which students are more likely to ultimately matriculate. A person with a 520 can often be expected to have multiple acceptances and a smaller school like Quinnipiac knows they will get passed over if that’s the case, unless the applicant is IS or attended that school.

 

[LindaAccepted]

3.7/521, Maryland resident and ORM. I only got 3 II and no A's after applying to 30 schools, so I will likely be applying for the 3rd time next cycle. I am waiting to hear back from one school. I have ~400 clinical volunteering hours, ~120 nonclinical volunteering, extensive leadership in non-premed related clubs, and thousands of hours of research including poster presentations.
Honestly, this cycle devastated me (I was so close!), but my MCAT from Aug 2020 doesn't expire until next year, so I have one more shot. What went wrong my first cycle was that I was pressured by someone to apply right after receiving my MCAT score and thus I applied late.

As for this current cycle:

Mistakes/Problems

• Little shadowing experience (only 64 hours in 2 specialties)
• I only submitted 1 science LOR in my committee letter, not realizing that 2 is an absolute requirement for most schools
• No clinical volunteering since the pandemic
• Possible poor interview skills (?)

Good parts of my app

• I think my personal statement and secondaries were pretty compelling, and had lots of people look them over
• I applied broadly (I think?)
• 

Changes for upcoming cycle

• Will rewrite secondaries and PS based on new experiences
• New shadowing in a new specialty, another 35 hours
• I'm looking for any clinical volunteering that I can squeeze in before May
• Potential publication (case study with physician I shadowed)
• Adding that 2nd science LOR

Questions

• How many schools, and which ones?
• Should I apply DO?
• I'm also concerned that my school's prehealth committee only allows 5 letters, while I have 7 lined up. Since I have 2 science, 1 humanities, 1 research, 2 shadowing, and 1 clinical volunteering, which should I choose?
• How many more hours of clinical volunteering should I have? Is there anything else I can do?

Thank you! If anyone wants it, I can post my school list. And I also asked a lot of schools for app feedback, but they said to wait until April...

You've gotten excellent advice so far in this thread. I'd like to add a couple of additional suggestions:

1. Don't stop your clinical volunteering when you submit the primary. keep at it. It will be crucial for your secondaries and interviews. If this is what you want to spend you life doing, start now. IOW, It's not just about what you "squeeze in" before May.
2. Get interview coaching or mock interviews when invited to interview. You're so close when you get an II, if your interview skills were an issue, you don't want to make the same mistakes again.

 

[deleted1099068]

Your MCAT score is way too high for any DO school (you scored comfortably in the 98th percentile). They're all going to view you as an applicant who considers them as a second option. My med school adviser told me not to apply to DO and I only scored a 514.

Stick to MD schools. I definitely think USF might accept you. As a Florida resident, I know they love high MCAT applicants so you still have a good shot!

 

[chilly_md]

I would still include DO schools. There are many that won’t yield protect as they know they’ve gotten some students in the past who’ve fallen through the cracks. The non-refundable deposit also helps make it easier for them to try to extend an interview and acceptance. Worth having a DO acceptance as insurance, especially on your 3rd application cycle.

 

[Goro]

3.7/521, Maryland resident and ORM. I only got 3 II and no A's after applying to 30 schools, so I will likely be applying for the 3rd time next cycle. I am waiting to hear back from one school. I have ~400 clinical volunteering hours, ~120 nonclinical volunteering, extensive leadership in non-premed related clubs, and thousands of hours of research including poster presentations.
Honestly, this cycle devastated me (I was so close!), but my MCAT from Aug 2020 doesn't expire until next year, so I have one more shot. What went wrong my first cycle was that I was pressured by someone to apply right after receiving my MCAT score and thus I applied late.

As for this current cycle:

Mistakes/Problems

• Little shadowing experience (only 64 hours in 2 specialties)
• I only submitted 1 science LOR in my committee letter, not realizing that 2 is an absolute requirement for most schools
• No clinical volunteering since the pandemic
• Possible poor interview skills (?)

Good parts of my app

• I think my personal statement and secondaries were pretty compelling, and had lots of people look them over
• I applied broadly (I think?)
• 

Changes for upcoming cycle

• Will rewrite secondaries and PS based on new experiences
• New shadowing in a new specialty, another 35 hours
• I'm looking for any clinical volunteering that I can squeeze in before May
• Potential publication (case study with physician I shadowed)
• Adding that 2nd science LOR

Questions

• How many schools, and which ones?
• Should I apply DO?
• I'm also concerned that my school's prehealth committee only allows 5 letters, while I have 7 lined up. Since I have 2 science, 1 humanities, 1 research, 2 shadowing, and 1 clinical volunteering, which should I choose?
• How many more hours of clinical volunteering should I have? Is there anything else I can do?

Thank you! If anyone wants it, I can post my school list. And I also asked a lot of schools for app feedback, but they said to wait until April...

You've already lost two years have an attending salary and now it's going to go on to 3. Therefore put DO schools on your list.

And work on interview skills

 

[vygrip]

Definitely include DO schools. I got into one with a 518 and an T10 Ivy MPH, although I was accepted into MD programs as well.

Also, think about adding virtual shadowing.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Absolutely apply to DO schools. I know of several people who have gone on to attend DO schools with 514+ MCATs. You’ve applied to med school twice with no love from the MD programs. Only makes sense to expand on your odds of getting an acceptance by including some DO programs. Make sure to research the Four Osteopathic Tenants, The Osteopathic Oath of Commitment, and review the mission statements of the schools that you want to apply to. You will be expected to discuss why osteopathic medicine and why xyz school in your secondaries/interviews. If you can say something more than “OMT is an extra tool in my toolkit”, you’ll make some interviewer smile. If you can, try to secure an LOR from a DO. Best of luck!

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Tbh, I think that you needed more volume as a reapplicant. It’s okay to be conservative with list applying first time but additional cycles require volume.

 

[gyngyn]

Yes, it’s called yield-protection.

It's called resource stewardship!

 

[DZ2106]

Remove Oakland, Drexel, TCU and Quinnipiac. They are unlikely to consider you as you have an MCAT that is much higher than students they usually accept. You have very low non-clinical volunteering hours. What was this in? Medicine is an altruistic field and it is expected that you have given time to helping the underserved and those less fortunate.

I literally got accepted to Quinnipiac this cycle with a 3.86/521.

@bonk215 OP, I'm also a high stat reapplicant who got in this cycle. I'm going to be matriculating into a T20 that I'm a reapplicant for. You def need safe schools. Focus on fit when picking schools where your stats are out of their range, however. For example, Quinnipiac is very big on LGBTQ+ health, and I am LGBT. Like Goro has said, also add DO schools, as it can't hurt

Be much more judicious with your LORs, and make sure your writing and story are absolutely stellar for the next cycle. Again, not just the writing itself, but your ⭐story⭐. Give them some unifying theme/mission that they can know you for (like oh he's the adolescent mental health guy/racial disparities in medicine guy/advancing stem cell research guy). Make sure your ECs support what you're saying (like oh I love stem cell research and how it is the future of healthcare, that's why I did 1000 hours of research in it and plan to do more in med school). This is why people are always told to do what they love when deciding ECs, bc you can talk about it with more passion.

Your shadowing is fine. Aim for at least 500 clinical hours, ideally 1000 just to be safe. Same with research. I only had like 200 nonclinical volunteer hours, but I was passionate about them so they came up a lot.

Apply to 40+ schools this time. I applied for 54. My letters were: science committee, one non-science professor, one research PI, and 1 MD. No more. If you have more, pick the best ones and send those

 

[chilly_md]

N=1 for someone accepted at Quinnipiac with a 521 with the caveat they were a mission fit. OP does not seem to have anything outside the cookie cutter mold aside from a lot of research. Though, they may just not have shared that.

I would not recommend applying to 54 MD schools, a good deal of those will be donations.

 

[bonk215]

N=1 for someone accepted at Quinnipiac with a 521 with the caveat they were a mission fit. OP does not seem to have anything outside the cookie cutter mold aside from a lot of research. Though, they may just not have shared that.

I would not recommend applying to 54 MD schools, a good deal of those will be donations.

I have a story that I don’t feel comfortable sharing as it may doxx me

 

[chilly_md]

I have a story that I don’t feel comfortable sharing as it may doxx me

You can post some of it on the confidential consult section if you think it may be relevant to your application. Otherwise, you have an idea of where to apply and what to do to better your chances.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

A technical note: the presence of a committee letter supersedes the individual letter requirements (though it is always nice when the packet does meet them). In other words, even though you only have one science professor letter in your packet, your committee letter makes it satisfactory, and your application would not be disqualified for not having enough science letters.

My own thoughts based on hours is that your non clinical volunteering hours are in a threshold zone (enough for some, but not enough for others). The quality of your work there may not have met expectations for some faculty. Your self described clinical hours are fine but I don't know what you did to address quality concerns. I don't know if your interviews were MMI's or traditional so that's another variable.