Podiatry paid call

[Retrograde_Nail]

New topic. Who gets paid for call? If so how did you justify this? If not what has admin said to you saying why they won’t?

How much do you get paid weekdays and weekends? What geographical location are you? Etc

I’ve worked at two hospitals and it seems ortho, in general, gets paid for call not just for their specialty but because they can take general ortho call which no one can argue with that.

I’ve moved to a bigger system now but there are ortho specialties who do NOT have to take ortho general call but still get paid for being on call.

I don’t understand it but it just seems like admin values certain body parts more than others. I would definitely argue that podiatry volume on call and total inpatients from a podiatry service rivals or beats a lot of the other services these specialties see and treat. The downstream revenue a inpatient podiatry service generates in the hospital is staggering.

It just seems we haven’t quite cracked the case on why podiatrists in general are not paid for call. Would love to hear/ read peoples experiences.

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[Adam Smasher]

I get paid $0 for call, but it's courtesy call so I exercise my right to say "I'm not available"

Also the vascular surgeon at my community hospital told me he gets paid $0, no idea about ortho/gen surg/ob, but we're not in an affluent area

 

[air bud]

Talked to guy recently with Kaiser in Cali getting 650 a day. Not sure what call entailed. Had another friend with MSG in Cali say they wanted him to take call. Asked him to come up with number s. He was going to say between 600 and 1000 day/weekday. My contract calls for 350 a day after my 10 days. But I don't even have to take the 10 days, I just have to answer the phone between. 8 and 5 MF. Ortho Turfs to me if they want to dump it on me. If it's pus it's always coming to me. If it's trauma I have gotten 1 trimal on meth/MDMA/opioids/smoker. Shows you what they think of me and podiatry. They will allow me to do trimals if it suits them. Otherwise they want them. So basically I take no call.

Continually amazed at podiatry in Cali. Pays well. Good scope. But COL with loans is just too much.

 

[Feeter]

New topic. Who gets paid for call? If so how did you justify this? If not what has admin said to you saying why they won’t?

How much do you get paid weekdays and weekends? What geographical location are you? Etc

I’ve worked at two hospitals and it seems ortho, in general, gets paid for call not just for their specialty but because they can take general ortho call which no one can argue with that.

I’ve moved to a bigger system now but there are ortho specialties who do NOT have to take ortho general call but still get paid for being on call.

I don’t understand it but it just seems like admin values certain body parts more than others. I would definitely argue that podiatry volume on call and total inpatients from a podiatry service rivals or beats a lot of the other services these specialties see and treat. The downstream revenue a inpatient podiatry service generates in the hospital is staggering.

It just seems we haven’t quite cracked the case on why podiatrists in general are not paid for call. Would love to hear/ read peoples experiences.

Several of my podiatry friends who work for hospital have call stipulations in their contract. For example one of gigs required me to take 8 days of unpaid call a month. Any extra days of call I would get paid.

Currently at my hospital gig I get paid $700 per day of call. I take approximately 30 to 40 days of call a year depending on vacations/illnesses in my group. This is on top of my salary.

 

[sloh]

Talked to guy recently with Kaiser in Cali getting 650 a day. Not sure what call entailed. Had another friend with MSG in Cali say they wanted him to take call. Asked him to come up with number s. He was going to say between 600 and 1000 day/weekday. My contract calls for 350 a day after my 10 days. But I don't even have to take the 10 days, I just have to answer the phone between. 8 and 5 MF. Ortho Turfs to me if they want to dump it on me. If it's pus it's always coming to me. If it's trauma I have gotten 1 trimal on meth/MDMA/opioids/smoker. Shows you what they think of me and podiatry. They will allow me to do trimals if it suits them. Otherwise they want them. So basically I take no call.

Continually amazed at podiatry in Cali. Pays well. Good scope. But COL with loans is just too much.

What’s the income for kaiser SoCal?

 

[Hybrocure]

I would say the main reason why so much podiatry call is unpaid is because there are so many PP owners willing to put their associates on hospital call schedules for free. A big part of my job search and requirement was that I would not have to take hospital call because of that. It would be so much unneeded stress on my life for little reward. If I was forced to take hospital call (other than patients known to me or the practice) I would walk.

It’s also just not a very viable way to practice in PP. Many hospital patients can’t follow up in clinic due to insurances clinic doesn’t take, or you have to see them and waste clinic resources due to global. You end up with absolute train wrecks smelling up your waiting room next to a peds ingrown or a BCBS heel pain, etc. And that’s without even getting started on the QOL aspect of it with addons getting pushed into the night, showing up to a 30 patient clinic off of 3 hours sleep, etc.


Unless you’re getting paid to take call -
No way. I did that crap in residency for free and had enough of it.

 

[Pronation]

I don’t know of anyone in my circle of degenerates that is getting paid for call, this includes both hospital employed and PP. I know of someone that was making progress with a hospital to get paid for call and then a nearby thirsty PP office swooped in to take the call for free instead 😂

 

[air bud]

Yes, 10 days is pretty standard call required unpaid for hospital employed docs regardless of specialty.

 

[air bud]

Also have been previous threads on this one which I started use the search function bro

 

[wakaflocka88]

Ask yourself this….is it worth your valuable time, especially if you DON’T get paid?

New grads justify taking free call as:
1) marketing my practice (you mean the owners practice) - I hear this the most often
2) cases, especially rear foot, for boards. Ya good luck getting a healthy patient or ones that will follow up all the way out
3) to grow your patient volume
4) does the patient even have insurance???

More often than not, new grads are being taken full advantage by their shady boss and siphoning away all the above, even worse if the patient is uninsured or poorly reimbursed for all your efforts. A few local hospitals near my city have new grad pods duking it out and bickering over call, it’s so embarrassing and sad. A while ago, a huge argument brewed over who had dibs on a train wreck unhealthy tri mal. Goodness. I wonder why ortho didn’t want it.

Obviously the above doesn’t apply to RVU based models but for private practice, think long and hard if your time is better spent marketing a different avenue or doing something else worthwhile

 

[Shiyuan]

Yes, 10 days is pretty standard call required unpaid for hospital employed docs regardless of specialty.

Yup, can confirm.

 

[dtrack22]

Get this. A classmate of mine worked for a group that covered call and got paid to take call. Not much, maybe $250-300 per day…buuuuuut the call pay just went into the same pot as the rest of his collections. So he only got 30% of it and the practice kept 70% of his daily call pay. Because Podiatry…

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

Get this. A classmate of mine worked for a group that covered call and got paid to take call. Not much, maybe $250-300 per day…buuuuuut the call pay just went into the same pot as the rest of his collections. So he only got 30% of it and the practice kept 70% of his daily call pay. Because Podiatry…

What a kick in the toenail. Damn.

 

[Hybrocure]

Get this. A classmate of mine worked for a group that covered call and got paid to take call. Not much, maybe $250-300 per day…buuuuuut the call pay just went into the same pot as the rest of his collections. So he only got 30% of it and the practice kept 70% of his daily call pay. Because Podiatry…

 

[dtrack22]

Oh one more, this was fairly recent. Someone I know was an associate in a podiatry group. Clinics were in a few different suburb locations but he and a friend of mine (hospital/MSG employed) took call at one of the hospitals in the city. They did this for free for several years. With the backing of ortho at the hospital (they were in the same MSG as my friend), the hospital agreed to pay something like $350 per day.

Remember, the PP associate was doing all of this on his own time, for free, leading up to this negotiation with the hospital. When he went to the practice owner and let him know that the hospital was going to begin paying him to take call…the owner fired him. Because he negotiated a “contract” outside of the group. He didn’t hide anything from the group. He wasn’t collecting checks directly from the hospital without his employers knowledge. They hadn’t even started getting paid for the call. No, the act of negotiating something for his own benefit without the owners approval (even though he would have taken a cut of that call pay, just like my previous example) was a fire-able offense in a Podiatry group.

Everyone say it out loud…Because Podiatry

 

[Hybrocure]

Oh one more, this was fairly recent. Someone I know was an associate in a podiatry group. Clinics were in a few different suburb locations but he and a friend of mine (hospital/MSG employed) took call at one of the hospitals in the city. They did this for free for several years. With the backing of ortho at the hospital (they were in the same MSG as my friend), the hospital agreed to pay something like $350 per day.

Remember, the PP associate was doing all of this on his own time, for free, leading up to this negotiation with the hospital. When he went to the practice owner and let him know that the hospital was going to begin paying him to take call…the owner fired him. Because he negotiated a “contract” outside of the group. He didn’t hide anything from the group. He wasn’t collecting checks directly from the hospital without his employers knowledge. They hadn’t even started getting paid for the call. No, the act of negotiating something for his own benefit without the owners approval (even though he would have taken a cut of that call pay, just like my previous example) was a fire-able offense in a Podiatry group.

Everyone say it out loud…Because Podiatry

The upside is it won’t be hard to find another crappy job

 

[Jummy Biffett]

At my old job I would get paid $1000/week to take call at the hospital...except I didn't get that money, went straight to my MSG. Never saw a dime of it. And now that MSG went bankrupt 🤷‍♂️

 

[heybrother]

Well there we go. People are getting paid for call. Sort of. Well, not really.

 

[Retrograde_Nail]

Well there we go. People are getting paid for call. Sort of. Well, not really.

It is rather discouraging. I am meeting with admin to negotiate higher base salary and more money per RVU since I am less than a year into my three contract and I am hitting 800-1000 RVUs per month. I'm working my tail off.

But I am also going to bring up getting paid for call. Historically they have never paid their employed podiatrists. Our crosstown rival hospital system pays their podiatrists for call but they also see routine nail consults too which is nuts. I refuse to see nails while I am on call.

I had a conversation with one of our hand surgeons because they get paid for call but do not take general ortho call so they essentially come in for fractures, lacerations and infections. Similar to what podiatry does. I asked this person why hand gets paid and podiatry does not. Essentially they said that in most hospitals admin value hands over feet and there are less hand surgeons available for certain geographic areas therefore for them to even attract a hand surgeon to come to the hospital they have to pay for call.

In the end nobody gives a damn about feet.

 

[Hybrocure]

It is rather discouraging. I am meeting with admin to negotiate higher base salary and more money per RVU since I am less than a year into my three contract and I am hitting 800-1000 RVUs per month. I'm working my tail off.

But I am also going to bring up getting paid for call. Historically they have never paid their employed podiatrists. Our crosstown rival hospital system pays their podiatrists for call but they also see routine nail consults too which is nuts. I refuse to see nails while I am on call.

I had a conversation with one of our hand surgeons because they get paid for call but do not take general ortho call so they essentially come in for fractures, lacerations and infections. Similar to what podiatry does. I asked this person why hand gets paid and podiatry does not. Essentially they said that in most hospitals admin value hands over feet and there are less hand surgeons available for certain geographic areas therefore for them to even attract a hand surgeon to come to the hospital they have to pay for call.

In the end nobody gives a damn about feet.

They care about nails tho. The problem with negotiating ANYTHING in podiatry is that they can bring in 100 people at any time at a moments notice to do the same thing for less (referring to hospital jobs - and this is a con of working a hospital job btw). Our profession does it to ourselves.

 

[Feli]

I get paid $0 for call, but it's courtesy call so I exercise my right to say "I'm not available" ...

The way it should be. ^^^

 

[Feeter]

It is rather discouraging. I am meeting with admin to negotiate higher base salary and more money per RVU since I am less than a year into my three contract and I am hitting 800-1000 RVUs per month. I'm working my tail off.

But I am also going to bring up getting paid for call. Historically they have never paid their employed podiatrists. Our crosstown rival hospital system pays their podiatrists for call but they also see routine nail consults too which is nuts. I refuse to see nails while I am on call.

I had a conversation with one of our hand surgeons because they get paid for call but do not take general ortho call so they essentially come in for fractures, lacerations and infections. Similar to what podiatry does. I asked this person why hand gets paid and podiatry does not. Essentially they said that in most hospitals admin value hands over feet and there are less hand surgeons available for certain geographic areas therefore for them to even attract a hand surgeon to come to the hospital they have to pay for call.

In the end nobody gives a damn about feet.

Let us know how that goes. I'd be surprised if they increase your RVU rate of you signed a three year contract.

Would it make more sense to ask for scribe and PA if they don't increase wRVU rate?

I would ask for call pay. Same as gen surgery or Ortho rate. Not $300 because you aren't doing just toenails or toe amps when you are on call.

Good luck!

 

[air bud]

Let us know how that goes. I'd be surprised if they increase your RVU rate of you signed a three year contract.

Would it make more sense to ask for scribe and PA if they don't increase wRVU rate?

I would ask for call pay. Same as gen surgery or Ortho rate. Not $300 because you aren't doing just toenails or toe amps when you are on call.

Good luck!

I agree with this completely. Hey look at all this work I'm doing, please help me so I can do it more efficiently. And your system already supports PA's for pods anyways

 

[Pronation]

I agree with this completely. Hey look at all this work I'm doing, please help me so I can do it more efficiently. And your system already supports PA's for pods anyways

This is the way. First attack the angle of being paid more for your work. When/if that falls through then attack the angle of efficiency. Work smarter, not harder.

Let me ask you this: how much happier would you be with your current job if you had a scribe blasting notes out for you, and/or a PA helping you see inpatient consults and mowing down post-op visits?

 

[wakaflocka88]

Let us know how that goes. I'd be surprised if they increase your RVU rate of you signed a three year contract.

Would it make more sense to ask for scribe and PA if they don't increase wRVU rate?

I would ask for call pay. Same as gen surgery or Ortho rate. Not $300 because you aren't doing just toenails or toe amps when you are on call.

Good luck!

Yes agree. I’m in the process of asking for a NP/PA and they are considering it after seeing my productivity increase each year and the potential.

 

[Steveington]

When I was first out, I was taking call at a hospital for free. I was the only podiatrist taking call. After a while, I reached out to admin and asked if I could be paid for being on call. I got some excuses, "it wasn't in the budget, etc" So then I let them know I was going to stop taking call and I gave them 4 weeks notice. (not that I had to give notice, but I wanted to be nice) At 3.5 weeks, they reached out and said they could figure out a way to pay me. It was a set amount per month, ~ $2000. But that was more than free.
I later joined the hospital, they greatly increased my salary compared to an associates salary. I was still on call, but not being paid separately for it. But due to the large bump in base pay and bonus structure, I was okay with that.
The hospital later closed. I'm in PP again. Some of the local hospitals have reached out and asked if I want to take call. I asked if they would pay and they have said no. I declined. I'm not on call anywhere and honestly, it's pretty great. I think that it would have to be a pretty large number to get me to want to take call again.
I have also had a hospital say if I want to do surgery there, I'd need to be on call. I told them no, and I'd just do my cases at another hospital where that isn't required. They would rather not lose the outpatient surgeries that I bring, then have me a call.

 

[BubbaWub]

I usually take call for free. Most of my calls are not too urgent/emergent, but it is in relation to my clinic patients (some answering service that my boss set up). My boss doesn't pay me for call, but maybe he could ask the local hospital for funds, I'm not sure on how to negotiate this. The few hospitals around me have not reached out to me for call, probably because they realize how busy I am. I have a very busy outpatient schedule, and this keeps my employer happy and the call is quite light.

Thank you

 

[619]

I get paid $0 for call, but it's courtesy call so I exercise my right to say "I'm not available"

Same for me. I am solo PP.

My hospital is a level 2 trauma center with a good amount of diabetic pus train. I am in a fairly saturated metro outside a top 10 major city so I never bother to ask for call pay. I am very happy with my clinic volume.

I grab free lunch at the hospital everyday so I guess I am paid with food.