Penn (with 10k/yr scholarship) vs. UMich (OOS)

[lshen]

I sincerely would like some advice on choosing which school to attend. I have a PhD in cell biology/bone biology and am expecting myself to specialize and likely want to become a dental school faculty.
UMich
Pro:
- strong research program
- early hands-on clinic exposure
- Ann Arbor is a safer city
- around $10k/yr cheaper than UPenn (but I can handle the difference)
- bigger international student population in the SOD
Cons:
- stress level: graded and ranked
- harsh winter
- short breaks
- (saw someone complain about the clinics somewhere in the forum, but I have not validated it yet)

Penn:
Pro:
- higher matching rate compared to UMich
- slightly less stressed (graded but only rank top 10)
- bigger name (it might be an important factor if I want to go back to my home country eventually)
- closer to my own friend circle
- reasonable breaks
Cons:
- Slightly more expensive
- late clinic exposure
- my impression on the admission process is not so good
- lower "graduate-on-time" rate
- research is not as strong but SOM has some really nice research on mineralized tissues, which may compensate.

Thank you very much, everyone! Any suggestion or comment will be appreciated.

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[John Muir]

Go to Pen. You won’t regret it. Michigan is a school no one should be going to.

 

[Boofy]

Go to Pen. You won’t regret it. Michigan is a school no one should be going to.

Can you elaborate on why?

 

[John Muir]

Can you elaborate on why?

Long story short: terrible clinical education that I’d be surprised if they get re-accredited in the future.

One example: you cannot extract teeth outside of your 2 week D3 OS rotation or your 2.5 day D4 OS rotation. I know several D3s about to be D4s who have extracted fewer than 5 teeth. During my D4 rotation I only extracted ~ 5 teeth during that 2.5 days.
If you want more examples, I have plenty.

 

[toothdoc98]

Penn 100%. You get equal if not better research at Penn, closer to your support system and less stress in the academic curriculum. If the 10k doesn’t bother you, Penn is the way to go. Especially if you want to go into academic medicine/faculty, their connections + reputation is going to put you over the top. Not saying Michigan won’t but cmon its UPenn. Also, Philly is a much better city to explore/spend 4 years there than Ann Arbor anyways
Disclaimer: chose UPenn over a couple other at T10 schools

 

[Boofy]

Long story short: terrible clinical education that I’d be surprised if they get re-accredited in the future.

One example: you cannot extract teeth outside of your 2 week D3 OS rotation or your 2.5 day D4 OS rotation. I know several D3s about to be D4s who have extracted fewer than 5 teeth. During my D4 rotation I only extracted ~ 5 teeth during that 2.5 days.
If you want more examples, I have plenty.

Do you believe this is because of COVID? And is there any rumors that this will improve? If the clinical aspect is severely lacking, do many of your peers (yourself included) want to specialize?

 

[AONLINE]

Long story short: terrible clinical education that I’d be surprised if they get re-accredited in the future.

One example: you cannot extract teeth outside of your 2 week D3 OS rotation or your 2.5 day D4 OS rotation. I know several D3s about to be D4s who have extracted fewer than 5 teeth. During my D4 rotation I only extracted ~ 5 teeth during that 2.5 days.
If you want more examples, I have plenty.

This is horrible I assume UMich students never get to touch a handpiece for surgical extractions?

 

[John Muir]

This is horrible I assume UMich students never get to touch a handpiece for surgical extractions?

Correct. Unless you go to a unicorn external rotation 4th year you won’t even touch a surgical hand piece. They do not allow students to do surgical extractions at the dental school.

 

[John Muir]

Do you believe this is because of COVID? And is there any rumors that this will improve? If the clinical aspect is severely lacking, do many of your peers (yourself included) want to specialize?

No, this is due entirely to administrative changes in the DDS program.