Nontraditional planning for rejection

[inajeT02]

Hey all. I'm a nontraditional applying this cycle via TMDSAS (Texas application service) to only Texas schools as a Texas resident.

My TMDSAS GPA cumulative is 3.87, and science is 3.77.
My real GPA (AMCAS) is ~ 3.80.

My MCAT is a 520 which makes my LizzyM ~ 75.7.

I have research experience, but not anything medically related.

Unfortunately, I've only heard back from one school (UTSW where I had an interview). I'm looking into contingency plans in case I don't get in.

I have all prerequisites done except for one semester of bio (advanced bio lecture) and one semester of ochem II lab. I was planning on leaving my job before next semester, and taking some time off + taking classes if I were to matriculate in 2018.

However, now that it's almost November, with not too many IIs, I'm thinking about what to do in the event I don't get in anywhere.

A glaring weakness in my application is shadowing. I only have ~10 hours (Since I travel for work almost every week, it's been hard to get opportunities on weekends.

I spent my PTO studying for the MCAT (1 week) and blocked off time for exams for my Post bacc classes (3 days)). So I only have 5 days left, which I've saved for interviews.

I have a lot of clinical volunteering from when I was an undergraduate, but this was before I decided to become a doctor (5-6 years ago approximately 450 hours).

I have enough saved up for a years worth of living expenses and if necessary, am fortunate enough to move back in with my parents to save on rent.

Other than shadowing, what can I do to improve my chances?

I feel as if I need to quit my job to improve my application. Traveling close to every week doesn't allow me to volunteer except on weekends.

I was thinking of taking 2 advanced bio classes + ochem II lab.
more volunteering at a hospital
Scribing
Maybe volunteer clinical research (how can one get into this with an Engineering background but no background in clinical studies?)

Thanks for any advice guys!

In DFW if it matters.

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[Skiiiiiing]

Something is off - statement or letters.

 

[bears1992]

Well, your GPA/MCAT obviously aren't holding you back. My guess is you didn't apply to enough schools. You only applied to 10 schools, two of which have a huge URM bias.

Physician shadowing is ranked as "high importance" among adcoms so that could be the reason why some schools have not reached out to you.
https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/mcatguide.pdf#page=10

Also I noticed you said you were thinking of taking ochem II lab. Are you missing any of the prereqs? If they are not listed as completed or planned on your app, schools may be worried that you won't have them completed in time for matriculation.

Regardless, applying to 10 schools and getting 1 interview isn't bad this far into the cycle. I wouldn't quit your job to add more volunteering. 450 hours is way more than enough.

 

[schistoguy]

First, how did you only study a week for the MCAT and score a 520? I've been studying for three years and can't crack a 510 lol


But to answer your question, yeah, you applied to too few schools. Sure your shadowing and clinical experience is low but with your stats you'll turn heads all over the country. I know you probably wanted to stay in Texas but you should've applied all over. At least 15 more target schools.
If you do have to re-apply next year you don't have to change much. Get more clinical experience and apply to 25-30 schools to be safe.

 

[inajeT02]

Thanks for the input guys. I wanted to stay in Texas, but probably should have applied to more schools! I've heard a lot of out of state schools are wary of Texas applications and reject a lot of people because of that instate preference, but I'll definitely apply to more schools next year.

@TigerTank . I asked two of my professors who taught post-bacc ochem to write recommendations for me. I was able to get 100s in their classes, and they were in general impressed with my performance. They said they would write good ones, but don't know how good they actually were haha.
My other letter was from a volunteer organization I work at (I'm a GED tutor). I feel as if that one was very strong.
I also got my personal statement professionally read and edited. There was no substantive feedback, but that could be due to a crappy professional organization (I used one that was recommended from SDN).

@schistoguy I actually studied for a month and a half, but had to go through all of the Psych/sociology stuff last second. I decided to take a week off to hammer that content home. I'm blessed in that I'm a good test taker and didn't have to study much. My first practice exam was a 516.

@bears1992 I definitely screwed the pooch with physician shadowing. I'll save my PTO for next year to shadow for a week or so. This year was a little rough with getting everything done.
I am missing prerequisites, but TMDSAS doesn't let me put in planned coursework for 2018! I'll call them now to ask about that process. I couldn't take any prereqs this semester because I was traveling 3 out of 4 weeks a month! That'll hopefully die down, but if it doesn't I will have to quit anyways!

Thanks for the advice guys. Please feel free to add more!

 

[NonTrad16]

Well, your GPA/MCAT obviously aren't holding you back. My guess is you didn't apply to enough schools. You only applied to 10 schools, two of which have a huge URM bias.

Physician shadowing is ranked as "high importance" among adcoms so that could be the reason why some schools have not reached out to you.
https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/mcatguide.pdf#page=10

Also I noticed you said you were thinking of taking ochem II lab. Are you missing any of the prereqs? If they are not listed as completed or planned on your app, schools may be worried that you won't have them completed in time for matriculation.

Regardless, applying to 10 schools and getting 1 interview isn't bad this far into the cycle. I wouldn't quit your job to add more volunteering. 450 hours is way more than enough.

450 hours is a lot, but it’s also from many years ago. Additionally, 10 hours of shadowing is really low. I had ~50 and the admissions people went “eh, that’s ok...” More would definitely serve the OP well...

I had a LizzyM of 7 less than the OP, and am from a state with less favorable in state options. That said, volunteering and service was the thing that kept me out my first application cycle. I found time to do more clinical volunteering (adding hospice, which you can do weekends and whenever available), but more importantly service for those in need (meals on wheels). That addition moved me from 0/24 interviews/applications (MD/DO, generally well selected), to ~11/24 interviews/applications. I started my additional activities between November and December, so if you start now (and do whatever you have to do), you should be able to mend the gap in time for an application next year (if needed). I also have an engineering background. I volunteered weekly in a hospital department (mostly populated by pre-meds and retirees), meals on wheels, and hospice while working/taking classes.

As for coursework, Texas may be different than amcas, but I only had to verify courses (with transcripts) before matriculating. No one seemed to look at them otherwise, though some schools asked what courses fulfilled the listed requirements (and I’d say “taking spring”, etc). Definitely assure you get them done, since schools are a lot less lenient than I would have expected...

Texas seems tricky because of the relative bias from OOS schools, but it would be worth applying to a few since you have great stats. If you have to reapply, you could do all of the Texas schools and a select few MD schools.

 

[inajeT02]

@NonTrad16 Thanks for the advice. I have about 325 hours my application since graduating, and am currently volunteering as a GED tutor in a low income area of Dallas. I have about 3 hours a week there, and have 8 hours a week as a "social value" auditor for a non-profit. I'll definitely look into adding more clinically relevant volunteering on the weekends.

My application (over 7.5 years) has about 900 hours currently.

Definitely need to look into more shadowing; I think that's the biggest red flag here.

 

[SpoiledMilk]

@gonnif @gyngyn @Goro

 

[Goro]

The cycle isn't over yet.

 

[DokterMom]

With your numbers, I'm really surprised. Could definitely be ECs -- But I wouldn't despair yet.

You said there was no spot on the application for 'planned coursework' -- ? I'm wondering if that might not be a good excuse/reason for an update letter? It's kind of hard to maintain that a guy with a 520 MCAT is weak on basic Chem or Bio...

How about writing to the schools directly to let them know that you are scheduled to take [insert missing coursework here] in the spring and that you will have completed all required coursework prior to hopefully matriculating next summer. Somehow work in that in light of your strong GPA and MCAT scores, you are confident you will be able to do well and that you're hoping to hear back from them and interview at their school... You could also mention that you know your shadowing hours are low, but that you're hoping to shadow more [when] when your travel schedule permits. Tough letter to write - Feel free to PM me if you're curious about tone...

It sounds like your job is really getting in the way of your chances. Is this particular job so desirable in other ways that it's worth sacrificing a medical career for? You may have to use sick days or other unpaid time to get everything done.

 

[NonTrad16]

@NonTrad16 Thanks for the advice. I have about 325 hours my application since graduating, and am currently volunteering as a GED tutor in a low income area of Dallas. I have about 3 hours a week there, and have 8 hours a week as a "social value" auditor for a non-profit. I'll definitely look into adding more clinically relevant volunteering on the weekends.

My application (over 7.5 years) has about 900 hours currently.

Definitely need to look into more shadowing; I think that's the biggest red flag here.

Ah, my apologies if I missed the details. That sounds pretty comprehensive for underserved experience.

Speaking of letters: did you have your employer write a letter? If you’ve been there awhile and you have expressed your intents and they seemed supportive, I’d expect that could be a valuable letter, since it could help demonstrate a side that most undergrads don’t have the chance to show. I didn’t have my employer write a letter initially, but added it my second cycle and definitely think it was a stronger letter than some of my others. I understand the hesitation if they don’t know, but something to consider.

All that said, I wish you the best, and a lot can happen from here on out. This process can definitely be frustrating and filled with uncertainty...

 

[AnotherLawyer]

@bears1992 I definitely screwed the pooch with physician shadowing. I'll save my PTO for next year to shadow for a week or so. This year was a little rough with getting everything done.
I am missing prerequisites, but TMDSAS doesn't let me put in planned coursework for 2018! I'll call them now to ask about that process. I couldn't take any prereqs this semester because I was traveling 3 out of 4 weeks a month! That'll hopefully die down, but if it doesn't I will have to quit anyways!

This is not true. There is a section called "Planned Enrollment." I have stuff listed there for Spring 2018. You can also list future semesters under "Coursework." So if you plan to take a course in Spring 2018 at a school you've already done coursework at, you're supposed to list it both places.

When were you complete?

 

[inajeT02]

Hey @AnotherLawyer I was compete first week of August. I think the issue with the TMDSAS is that I had my last term listed as Fall of 2017 for the school I'm planning to take the rest of my prereqs at, but I can't add that that term under terms attended (but I can against planned coursework). I'll cal them to make sure.

Thanks again for the advice guys! I'll hold off on plans until the fat lady sings!

 

[AnotherLawyer]

Hey @AnotherLawyer I was compete first week of August. I think the issue with the TMDSAS is that I had my last term listed as Fall of 2017 for the school I'm planning to take the rest of my prereqs at, but I can't add that that term under terms attended (but I can against planned coursework). I'll cal them to make sure.

Thanks again for the advice guys! I'll hold off on plans until the fat lady sings!

I should have asked the question about completion more clearly. Did you submit your app the TMDSAS the first week in August? What I really wanted to know is when TMDSAS transmitted the app the schools and when your secondaries were complete.

 

[inajeT02]

I should have asked the question about completion more clearly. Did you submit your app the TMDSAS the first week in August? What I really wanted to know is when TMDSAS transmitted the app the schools and when your secondaries were complete.

Transmitted to schools in early August. Secondaries sent within 2-3 days. So everything was done for all schools by the 10th

 

[AnotherLawyer]

Transmitted to schools in early August. Secondaries sent within 2-3 days. So everything was done for all schools by the 10th

I would scour the school specific threads and see if other people who got their apps in around the same time with you have done better with IIs. It is possible you just need to wait. If it's not the timing, then I must conclude you have a red flag. Your numbers are superb and your ECs seem more than adequate. I don't believe your shadowing hours are it and I don't believe you applied to too few schools, given that you are well above the median at every school you applied to.

The good news is that you got an II from UTSW, the best school you applied to. That might suggest this is all just a timing issue. I have my fingers crossed for you that more IIs will come with time. Good luck!

 

[AnotherLawyer]

UTSW is probably more stats driven than any other Texas program, and probably more willing to overlook a yellow flag or uncompelling statement for someone with Ferrari stats.

They have the highest stats but I don't see how we can conclude they are stat driven. Anecdotally, I don't see a lot of people posting about getting UTSW IIs but getting shut out at UTMB, McGovern, etc. In fact, everyone I spoke to at my UTSW interview day seemed to have gotten IIs everywhere else in TX they applied, the exception being Dell. But again, that's just my anecdotal experience.

 

[inajeT02]

Hey all. Looks like I worried too soon. A day or two after I posted this I got 2 IIs with dates before the prematch deadline! I think it was a timing thing @AnotherLawyer . Looking at the forums from last year it seems that a lot of people also got IIs after prematch as well so here’s hoping I can get some IIs as well.

So to all of those that are worried it’s never too late until January.

 

[2010houston]

Congrats on the new interview invites! For future readers, the Texas application season is definitely pushed earlier than others- i would suspect that the early August complete date was a big part of the lack of interest at the beginning. The schools just tend to offer a LOT of their invites early. Good luck with everything!

 

[inajeT02]

Hey all. I ended up getting 5 IIs to Texas schools! No prematches because well, I interviewed near the deadlines of a lot of these schools. Moral of the story is that "It aint over until the corpulent woman vocalizes musically or something like that." I'll update this thread with an acceptance victory post (hopefully) in the next month.

I actually did end up quitting my job and I will be working as a research assistant doing public health research that involves what I was doing professionally for 6 months at least (or longer if I don't get into med school).

 

[inajeT02]

Hey all, just another update for those looking at this thread in the future. I ended up getting into a Texas medical school! My second choice!

I guess the moral of the story is to be patient, and believe in yourself and the process.

Good luck future SDNers!

 

[Magus5454]

First, how did you only study a week for the MCAT and score a 520? I've been studying for three years and can't crack a 510 lol

I didnt study at all and got a 34/515. Some people just retain knowledge/test well

 

[wysdoc]

Hey all, just another update for those looking at this thread in the future. I ended up getting into a Texas medical school! My second choice!

I guess the moral of the story is to be patient, and believe in yourself and the process.

Good luck future SDNers!

which one?

 

[inajeT02]

which one?

McGovern! Super excited to be a part of the TMC but dreading the weather!