New job USC...

[deleted956486]

"USC strongly values diversity and is committed to equal opportunity in employment. Women and men, and members of all racial and ethnic groups, are encouraged to apply.
[...] medical Korean speaking is a requirement."

Assistant or Associate Professor of Clinical Radiation Oncology - Los Angeles, CA - Indeed.com

USC

www.indeed.com

I'm just gonna leave that out there for Dr Eric Chang to figure out on his own.

By the way, the non-English language spoken by the largest group in LA is Spanish, which is spoken by 42.41% of the population.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Neuronix]

How many people speak Korean who aren't Korean? I mean that's just silly to put the diversity statement in the ad.

 

[deleted941485]

How many people speak Korean who aren't Korean? I mean that's just silly to put the diversity statement in the ad.

What are you talking about?

I know a dozen of Haitian rad oncs that speak fluent Korean.

 

[deleted774703]

"USC strongly values diversity and is committed to equal opportunity in employment. Women and men, and members of all racial and ethnic groups, are encouraged to apply.
[...] medical Korean speaking is a requirement."

Assistant or Associate Professor of Clinical Radiation Oncology - Los Angeles, CA - Indeed.com

USC

www.indeed.com

I'm just gonna leave that out there for Dr Eric Chang to figure out on his own.

By the way, the non-English language spoken by the largest group in LA is Spanish, which is spoken by 42.41% of the population.

job is for their Korea town satellite

I’m with you on the equal opportunity. It’s def not equal. If it was, they would give a non Korean speaking person the same chance at job and just use a translator

 

[deleted956486]

job is for their Korea town satellite

I’m with you on the equal opportunity. It’s def not equal. If it was, they would give a non Korean person the same chance at job and just use a translator

Why don't they hire haitian doctors in the haitian town satellites? Or Italian doctors in little Italy? Or Black doctors in Harlem? More importantly, why is he posting this if he already has a candidate in mind? Why is he wasting people's time?

 

[PhotonBomb]

Why don't they hire haitian doctors in the haitian town satellites? Or Italian doctors in little Italy? Or Black doctors in Harlem? More importantly, why is he posting this if he already has a candidate in mind? Why is he wasting people's time?

They have to post. It’s the law.

 

[deleted18755]

They have to post. It’s the law.

I have heard this many times but can somebody verify if it is indeed 1. A legal requirement to post a job for which a candidate has already essentially been hired and if so 2. do they have to take it one step further and interview others too?

What was and apparently continues to be the purpose of such a law?

 

[deleted950463]

I have heard this many times but can somebody verify if it is indeed 1. A legal requirement to post a job for which a candidate has already essentially been hired and if so 2. do they have to take it one step further and interview others too?

What was and apparently continues to be the purpose of such a law?

An IR was interviewed at a competitive academic city location. During the interview, each faculty meeting lasted short and afterward he was immediately notified that they were pursuing other candidates. This IR is experienced in interviews and noticed that from the getgo the interviewers seemed disinterested though before he flew out they seemed eager to meet him.

As it turned out there was a candidate already picked. So yes, people can get flown out for those timewaster interviews.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

I have heard this many times but can somebody verify if it is indeed 1. A legal requirement to post a job for which a candidate has already essentially been hired and if so 2. do they have to take it one step further and interview others too?

What was and apparently continues to be the purpose of such a law?

I don't have the energy to go searching for sources to back this up, but I've asked around about this before. I was told that if you receive government funding (as almost all academic hospitals - especially those affiliated with universities - do) then you need to demonstrate a national job search executed in "good faith" or something like that. I believe it has to do with ADA regulations? But just posting the job generally doesn't seem to be enough, interviews need to be conducted.

I've actually come to believe that a lot of the ASTRO speed-interviews are conducted to serve this purpose. Conducting quick interviews at ASTRO is the perfect way to not truly waste anyone's time or money while still following the letter of the law.

It does seem a little ridiculous - after all, there's nothing wrong with already knowing who you want to hire. But nothing is free, and if you take money from the government, there will always be strings attached.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

I don't have the energy to go searching for sources to back this up, but I've asked around about this before. I was told that if you receive government funding (as almost all academic hospitals - especially those affiliated with universities - do) then you need to demonstrate a national job search executed in "good faith" or something like that. I believe it has to do with ADA regulations? But just posting the job generally doesn't seem to be enough, interviews need to be conducted.

I've actually come to believe that a lot of the ASTRO speed-interviews are conducted to serve this purpose. Conducting quick interviews at ASTRO is the perfect way to not truly waste anyone's time or money while still following the letter of the law.

It does seem a little ridiculous - after all, there's nothing wrong with already knowing who you want to hire. But nothing is free, and if you take money from the government, there will always be strings attached.

Alright FINE because I can't stand posting hearsay comments, even if they're my own:

I've now gone down the Google Rabbit Hole. I think it actually has to do with University Policy as it relates to being an Equal Opportunity Employer as well as Affirmative Action.

See the following from SUNY Albany:

Human Resources

So it might not be actually tied to government funding like I thought, but who knows what those crafty academic lawyers have cooked up.

It does, in fact, seem to be related to a university's deep desire to not be sued. And, for RadOnc, what could be easier than posting on the ASTRO job board, doing a handful of on-site ASTRO interviews, then going with your own applicant? Bulletproof!

 

[xrthopeful]

I think a lot of the times the public universities have to officially post but not sure if they actually have to bring someone out on site.

 

[RickyScott]

I don't have the energy to go searching for sources to back this up, but I've asked around about this before. I was told that if you receive government funding (as almost all academic hospitals - especially those affiliated with universities - do) then you need to demonstrate a national job search executed in "good faith" or something like that. I believe it has to do with ADA regulations? But just posting the job generally doesn't seem to be enough, interviews need to be conducted.

I've actually come to believe that a lot of the ASTRO speed-interviews are conducted to serve this purpose. Conducting quick interviews at ASTRO is the perfect way to not truly waste anyone's time or money while still following the letter of the law.

It does seem a little ridiculous - after all, there's nothing wrong with already knowing who you want to hire. But nothing is free, and if you take money from the government, there will always be strings attached.

Exactly, and since radonc jobs are disproportionately tied to large academic employers, Astro site is legit reflection of job martlet and can be compared to other specialties as scar has done- and we are an order of magnitude off. We need to dispel the notion once and for all that compared to other fields, radonc has hidden stash of jobs for well connected.

 

[deleted941485]

You can’t get a decent job in some states without working at a large academic center. This is as much a reflection of the poor job marker as it is for the rampant consolidation within healthcare.

 

[Aphtalyfe]

"USC strongly values diversity and is committed to equal opportunity in employment. Women and men, and members of all racial and ethnic groups, are encouraged to apply.
[...] medical Korean speaking is a requirement."

Assistant or Associate Professor of Clinical Radiation Oncology - Los Angeles, CA - Indeed.com

USC

www.indeed.com

I'm just gonna leave that out there for Dr Eric Chang to figure out on his own.

By the way, the non-English language spoken by the largest group in LA is Spanish, which is spoken by 42.41% of the population.

For what it's worth... I saw this job posting over a year ago when I was looking for jobs to apply to. I don't know about now... but a year ago it was a real job posting for a position.

 

[deleted1002574]

Why is this so bad? If all the patients speak korean, I think it’s a reasonable ask for the person that’s going to work there? To do everything via translator will be unpleasant for both the doctor and the patients.

 

[deleted774703]

Why is this so bad? If all the patients speak korean, I think it’s a reasonable ask for the person that’s going to work there? To do everything via translator will be unpleasant for both the doctor and the patients.

Nothing wrong with having that preference.

It’s just clearly not an equal opportunity though bc of that requirement so shouldn’t post accordingly

 

[msuxrt]

Medical Korean is not a race/religion/ethnicity etc. It may be the case that most people who speak Korean are Korean, but i'm sure if you were South African and spoke Korean (with a work visa/US citizenship) they would consider you a good applicant.

 

[deleted774703]

Medical Korean is not a race/religion/ethnicity etc. It may be the case that most people who speak Korean are Korean, but i'm sure if you were South African and spoke Korean (with a work visa/US citizenship) they would consider you a good applicant.

You may be right.

realistically though how many non Korean ethnicity, Korean speaking rad oncs are there?

 

[RadOncDoc21]

You may be right.

realistically though how many non Korean ethnicity, Korean speaking rad oncs are there?

With residency expansion, there may be more in the future!

 

[Reaganite]

"USC strongly values diversity and is committed to equal opportunity in employment. Women and men, and members of all racial and ethnic groups, are encouraged to apply.
[...] medical Korean speaking is a requirement."

Assistant or Associate Professor of Clinical Radiation Oncology - Los Angeles, CA - Indeed.com

USC

www.indeed.com

I'm just gonna leave that out there for Dr Eric Chang to figure out on his own.

By the way, the non-English language spoken by the largest group in LA is Spanish, which is spoken by 42.41% of the population.

Can't fault them for wanting a Korean doc for their K-town satellite. It's basically an unstated requirement of the local docs and insurers. And, no, a non-korean who can speak korean doesn't count. That being said, USC is becoming one of the least diverse departments out there...

 

[wandering star]

Alright FINE because I can't stand posting hearsay comments, even if they're my own:

I've now gone down the Google Rabbit Hole. I think it actually has to do with University Policy as it relates to being an Equal Opportunity Employer as well as Affirmative Action.

Hmm. Here's what I know:

An individual employer (e.g. a small business with two people) is able to hire whoever they would like, with or without interviews. However, larger organizations like universities will typically set up HR processes that are partly intended to mitigate legal risk and partly intended to attract the best candidates. One example of this policy is that when someone visits for an interview, it is a no-no to ask them for their marital status or plans to have children. These, along with gender and race, are protected classes. Technically, simply "knowing" whether or not someone is married is not illegal, but HR would want to avoid the perception that discrimination might be happening.

Another side effect of these policies is these boilerplate statements ("We strongly support diversity ...") attached to every job advertisement, even when it doesn't really apply. Getting such a line *removed* from the advert would probably be very difficult according to policy, so it's easier just to leave it in and look a little ridiculous.

You can hire into a protected class (e.g., only female waitresses; only Korean physicians) if you can prove that there is a valid business interest for doing so. In this case, it would be pretty easy to make such an argument.

Looking elsewhere on the university campus, the interests of the department and that of the school may be opposed. A small department may want to hire someone who they know and like, their own buddy. The school wants to hire the best of the best. Accordingly, the school may mandate that they interview at least X candidates, and if there is the suspicion that they are just giving the job to their buddy, the dean might deny the search process. Earlier in my career I wanted to apply for a job (faculty physicist) but was told that the process could not continue until they collected 100 applicants to prove to the higher ups that the process was sufficiently competitive.