Navigating the Future of Dentistry

[MaxArch]

In seeing what happened to Pharmacy, Optometry, and Podiatry, you can’t help but see that Dentistry is following the same path to nowhere. Large pharmacy retailers (Walgreens, CVS) essentially agree on what the pay should be for first-year pharmacists, and every few years, that number goes down, but what can pharmacists do? Nothing. Aspen and Heartland can do the same as the number of private practice dentists decreases. Older dentists selling their practices have zero financial incentive to sell to a young dentist when DSOs outbid them with their seemingly infinite financial resources, further exacerbating the issue. If only something like the ADA could advocate for dentists and their best interests; oh wait, dentists all over don’t even want to pay for their memberships because it seems like they do nothing and are in bed with big insurance companies.

Many pharmacy schools don’t even require the PCAT anymore, Optometry schools accept the OAT, MCAT, DAT GRE, whatever the hell. This is because of how many schools and how saturated the market is. And now look we have Heartland Evil death spawn Rick Workman opening up a school with essentially no requirements to flood the market even greater and provide fuel for the DSO’s to continue.

The state of dentistry is not that bad, and I don’t want to dramatize it. Still, I also feel like everyone is standing on the bottom of the hill watching the avalanche start to fall, and nothing is happening when there are clear examples and precedents set of what's to come.

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[Big Time Hoosier]

In seeing what happened to Pharmacy, Optometry, and Podiatry, you can’t help but see that Dentistry is following the same path to nowhere. Large pharmacy retailers (Walgreens, CVS) essentially agree on what the pay should be for first-year pharmacists, and every few years, that number goes down, but what can pharmacists do? Nothing. Aspen and Heartland can do the same as the number of private practice dentists decreases. Older dentists selling their practices have zero financial incentive to sell to a young dentist when DSOs outbid them with their seemingly infinite financial resources, further exacerbating the issue. If only something like the ADA could advocate for dentists and their best interests; oh wait, dentists all over don’t even want to pay for their memberships because it seems like they do nothing and are in bed with big insurance companies.

Many pharmacy schools don’t even require the PCAT anymore, Optometry schools accept the OAT, MCAT, DAT GRE, whatever the hell. This is because of how many schools and how saturated the market is. And now look we have Heartland Evil death spawn Rick Workman opening up a school with essentially no requirements to flood the market even greater and provide fuel for the DSO’s to continue.

The state of dentistry is not that bad, and I don’t want to dramatize it. Still, I also feel like everyone is standing on the bottom of the hill watching the avalanche start to fall, and nothing is happening when there are clear examples and precedents set of what's to come.

Careful, you’re going to scare the predents…

Big Hoss

 

[D1Bound]

I have no answers

 

[askadds]

In seeing what happened to Pharmacy, Optometry, and Podiatry, you can’t help but see that Dentistry is following the same path to nowhere. Large pharmacy retailers (Walgreens, CVS) essentially agree on what the pay should be for first-year pharmacists, and every few years, that number goes down, but what can pharmacists do? Nothing. Aspen and Heartland can do the same as the number of private practice dentists decreases. Older dentists selling their practices have zero financial incentive to sell to a young dentist when DSOs outbid them with their seemingly infinite financial resources, further exacerbating the issue. If only something like the ADA could advocate for dentists and their best interests; oh wait, dentists all over don’t even want to pay for their memberships because it seems like they do nothing and are in bed with big insurance companies.

Many pharmacy schools don’t even require the PCAT anymore, Optometry schools accept the OAT, MCAT, DAT GRE, whatever the hell. This is because of how many schools and how saturated the market is. And now look we have Heartland Evil death spawn Rick Workman opening up a school with essentially no requirements to flood the market even greater and provide fuel for the DSO’s to continue.

The state of dentistry is not that bad, and I don’t want to dramatize it. Still, I also feel like everyone is standing on the bottom of the hill watching the avalanche start to fall, and nothing is happening when there are clear examples and precedents set of what's to come.

We are late to the game...its already in the dumpster.
-regarding ADA, membership would be even more in the dumpster if they didnt force D1s to join. they are now forcing people to join the ADA through their state or they cant join their state association stand alone..imagine what would happen to memebership if they dont force it upon you!!! they are the worst and sit on their hands and allowed this to happen
-the other person responsible for this mess are the actual dentists who have no idea what is happening right in front of them - back in the day, like 15 yrs ago a 350k income from dentistry was great and that's what the top 1% was doing. Today the top 1% is pulling 350k, still holds true but cost of living has doubled WHILE older generation DDS has paid off debt, doesnt understand business and could care less because they just want to hang on and get out!!
-the only way around it is revolt and not play ball with insurance companies. <-- any other approach is the same old acedemic play good guy approach by the ada and scream access to care as if that will pay off your loans.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

We are late to the game...its already in the dumpster.
-regarding ADA, membership would be even more in the dumpster if they didnt force D1s to join. they are now forcing people to join the ADA through their state or they cant join their state association stand alone..imagine what would happen to memebership if they dont force it upon you!!! they are the worst and sit on their hands and allowed this to happen
-the other person responsible for this mess are the actual dentists who have no idea what is happening right in front of them - back in the day, like 15 yrs ago a 350k income from dentistry was great and that's what the top 1% was doing. Today the top 1% is pulling 350k, still holds true but cost of living has doubled WHILE older generation DDS has paid off debt, doesnt understand business and could care less because they just want to hang on and get out!!
-the only way around it is revolt and not play ball with insurance companies. <-- any other approach is the same old acedemic play good guy approach by the ada and scream access to care as if that will pay off your loans.

I decided to stop paying my ADA membership fee this year. The ADA and state dental association have been hounding me via email and phone calls to renew my membership. I keep telling them that it ain’t happening. What am I getting for this $950/year?!

Big Hoss

 

[SirBrotherJam]

Careful, you’re going to scare the predents…

View attachment 385462

Big Hoss

Doubtful... they are so tunnel visoned in wanting to be a dentist. Common sense goes out the window for most. As an example, how many different ways do you have to say go to the cheapest school to them.... but Ivy this and ranking that. It's sad.

 

[macsak]

Doubtful... they are so tunnel visoned in wanting to be a dentist. Common sense goes out the window for most. As an example, how many different ways do you have to say go to the cheapest school to them.... but Ivy this and ranking that. It's sad.

but but but but "prestigious"...

 

[2TH MVR]

In seeing what happened to Pharmacy, Optometry, and Podiatry, you can’t help but see that Dentistry is following the same path to nowhere. Large pharmacy retailers (Walgreens, CVS) essentially agree on what the pay should be for first-year pharmacists, and every few years, that number goes down, but what can pharmacists do? Nothing. Aspen and Heartland can do the same as the number of private practice dentists decreases. Older dentists selling their practices have zero financial incentive to sell to a young dentist when DSOs outbid them with their seemingly infinite financial resources, further exacerbating the issue. If only something like the ADA could advocate for dentists and their best interests; oh wait, dentists all over don’t even want to pay for their memberships because it seems like they do nothing and are in bed with big insurance companies.

Dentistry is more hands on as compared to those other professions. Can't really see the comparisons. Agree that Corp retail chains are taking over. There are areas (rural) where Mom and Pop dental offices can still live the dream (small business owner). Not sure the ADA has any real power to change capitalism. Like others here. I've lost confidence in both the ADA and the AAO (American Association of Orthodontists). I quit my membership to both of these entities a long time ago.

Many pharmacy schools don’t even require the PCAT anymore, Optometry schools accept the OAT, MCAT, DAT GRE, whatever the hell. This is because of how many schools and how saturated the market is. And now look we have Heartland Evil death spawn Rick Workman opening up a school with essentially no requirements to flood the market even greater and provide fuel for the DSO’s to continue.

Can't blame Workman. If you do ... go ahead and blame the Bezos, Musks, Buffetts, etc, etc, of the world. It's progress. They took advantage of a business situation right or wrong. Buffett with BYD (Chinese electric car company) is one example of many. Do I agree with Buffett's large investment in BYD. No. I'm sure his investors are happy.

The state of dentistry is not that bad, and I don’t want to dramatize it. Still, I also feel like everyone is standing on the bottom of the hill watching the avalanche start to fall, and nothing is happening when there are clear examples and precedents set of what's to come.

What do you suggest to change this? That avalanche is gaining momentum.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Dentistry is more hands on as compared to those other professions. Can't really see the comparisons. Agree that Corp retail chains are taking over. There are areas (rural) where Mom and Pop dental offices can still live the dream (small business owner). Not sure the ADA has any real power to change capitalism. Like others here. I've lost confidence in both the ADA and the AAO (American Association of Orthodontists). I quit my membership to both of these entities a long time ago.

I get your point. I think Dentistry is also more lucrative. All those professions have a history of small business, and dentistry is even more appealing since the rewards for cash income likely interests the venture capital investors. But all of those professions share a common need to know practice management.

 

[charlestweed]

I’ve just spoken with my brother in law, who is a MD (internal medicine). He is 57-58yo. Twenty five years ago, he bought a practice from a retired doctor. According to him, he is the last generation of doctors who have their own clinics. All future MD doctors, including his son (who is a first year med student), will likely have to work for group practices and hospitals. My younger brother is a 42 yo GI doctor and he doesn’t have his own clinic.

 

[DrapperCrops]

Pharmacy removed the PCAT (which they did away with it during Covid for a bit, then got rid of it all together.) Did everyone hear about how many (most if not all the big named) colleges in the US are reinstating the SAT/ACT requirement again? According to their websites, a lot of these schools realized that these scores are better predictors of how a student can handle college compared to the other requirements. Looks like the experiment is over. I know the SAT/ACT is different from graduate schools predict how their students will perform, but do you guys think this will affect how dental schools think in the future when it comes to standardized testing? Every week, another school I know are reinstating standardized testing requirements, so I'm just curious.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Pharmacy removed the PCAT (which they did away with it during Covid for a bit, then got rid of it all together.) Did everyone hear about how many (most if not all the big named) colleges in the US are reinstating the SAT/ACT requirement again? According to their websites, a lot of these schools realized that these scores are better predictors of how a student can handle college compared to the other requirements. Looks like the experiment is over. I know the SAT/ACT is different from graduate schools predict how their students will perform, but do you guys think this will affect how dental schools think in the future when it comes to standardized testing? Every week, another school I know are reinstating standardized testing requirements, so I'm just curious.

Workman was the only school that didn't require the DAT while every other school did.

Also the ADA runs the DAT and the ADAT. They're not going to get rid of those tests. Even when the application pool crashed a few decades ago, the DAT remained.

Standardized exams are going to stay. Licensure Testing for the Dental Health Professions | CDCA-WREB-CITA