Med to Dental:OMFS

[jointman]

Is it possible to transfer from medical school to dental school? Or to get an M.D. and then complete a year or two of dental and get into OMFS? I was interested in OMFS but am a medical student currently. Would i need to go through all of dental school or just a few years? What is the lifestyle and salary like for these guys. How much trauma is involved and is it possible to work as a surgeon with a 8-6 type job? Any sites that give the salaries for other dental specialities like orthodontics and lifestyle info?

Thanks.

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[jointman]

One more thing.....would i have to take the DAT? How many boards are there in Dental school before graduation? (this could be a long road)

 

[ziptree]

I don't think its possible to enter a OMFS program from medical school....at least I haven't heard of anyone who's done it that way because many programs want you to send in your NBDE (National Dental Board) scores.

 

[TiggerJSA]

I don't think its possible to enter a OMFS program from medical school....at least I haven't heard of anyone who's done it that way because many programs want you to send in your NBDE (National Dental Board) scores.

This is false. There are quite a few programs that offer routes to OMFS to med students. I know very good programs such as Alabama, Louisville, and Michigan have current residents that have taken this route. Your best bet is to try to contact many of these programs and inquire how to go about getting a position and what is involved. BTW, good decision if this is the way you wanna go

 

[QCkid]

Is it possible to transfer from medical school to dental school? Or to get an M.D. and then complete a year or two of dental and get into OMFS? I was interested in OMFS but am a medical student currently. Would i need to go through all of dental school or just a few years? What is the lifestyle and salary like for these guys. How much trauma is involved and is it possible to work as a surgeon with a 8-6 type job? Any sites that give the salaries for other dental specialities like orthodontics and lifestyle info?

Thanks.

I'm a second year here at USC. We have an M.D. who matched into omfs while in med school but has to go through dental school. Its still four years for him. The reason this is the case is because thought the first two years of dental school and med shool are similar, dental students will spend a lot ofe extra time learning to do dental procedures in lab and refining their hand skills the second two years are spent perforoming these procedures on patients. As you can see, their is really no way or getting arround the 4 years. You would probably have to take the DAT but its no problem after the mcat. In D school you will take national boards part one and two plus a liscensing exam. Some specialty programs also require the GRE.

 

[uclaguy]

Columbia has a few MDs as well. Ask admissions here. The guy who is doing his DDS right now is also working at medical based clinic to make some money.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

As you can see, their is really no way or getting arround the 4 years. You would probably have to take the DAT but its no problem after the mcat. In D school you will take national boards part one and two plus a liscensing exam. Some specialty programs also require the GRE.

Some places will combine the "lab" courses from the first and second year of dental school into a single year, so the total dental time would be 3 years. During this time, you'd have to take the National Dental Board Part I and II. Part I scores are commonly used as an indicator of your qualification for residency, such as the Step I USMLE, so you'll have to do well on it. You would probably opt to take a licensure exam near the end of dental school, but it wouldn't be required. You would need it in the future, however, unless you chose to practice with your medical license, or in a state that doesn't require the exam. We have a resident who is looking to go to either Minnesota, Connecticut, California, or New York because he never took the licensure--not sure that he could pass it now. I don't know of any OMFS programs that require the GRE, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one.

Lifestyle can be whatever you want it to be. You can work 8-5, three days a week, or you can work 6 days a week and take hospital call. It's totally up to what you want your practice to be like. You can live the Derm lifestyle, or you can live the GenSurg lifestyle. It all comes down to personal preference.

 

[north2southOMFS]

Lifestyle can be whatever you want it to be. You can live the Derm lifestyle, or you can live the GenSurg lifestyle. It all comes down to personal preference.

Cards, are you going for living the alternative lifestyle? TXOMS told me you and he are pretty hard-core nowadays.

 

[TiggerJSA]

Cards, are you going for living the alternative lifestyle? TXOMS told me you and he are pretty hard-core nowadays.

Didn't I hear you two went to see Brokeback Mountain together recently

 

[molarama]

Didn't I hear you two went to see Brokeback Mountain together recently

I've heard of a few schools allowing MD's transfer into dental school. They transferred in as 2nd year or 3rd year dental students. Agreed lifestyle is what you make of it. Depends on your interests and if you do any fellowships after OMFS as well. A lot of homo jokes between the OMFS guys on this board. Projection? They sure have a lot more time than I'd expect.

 

[jointman]

Thank you all for the replies. I'm in med schl and like surgery but i dont want the "surgeon lifestyle" so i talked to my oral surgeon who told me to consider OMFS. I think it is a pretty cool field. So i guess i'm looking at two more years of dental school (at least) and then a 4 year residency (or is that 6 years?)....and how much do these guys make a year? How much do orthodontists make a year? any websites on salaries?

What fellowships are available in OMFS and how long are they? What kind of work do you guys do....jaw reconstruction, tooth implants, ENT type surgeries? Is there a lot of competition for cases from ENT and plastic surgeons? What is the scope for plastics in OMFS (not to sound rude, but if i was getting rhinoplasty i'd rather get it done my a plastic surgeon...but i guess there is cleft lip surgery and reconstruction following accidents).

i wonder if i'd be competetive being a below average student in med schl? any of you residents involved in selecting candidates willing to let me know how competetive it is to get into this field.

Sounds like a cool job....should have gone to Dental school!

 

[TiggerJSA]

Thank you all for the replies. I'm in med schl and like surgery but i dont want the "surgeon lifestyle" so i talked to my oral surgeon who told me to consider OMFS. I think it is a pretty cool field. So i guess i'm looking at two more years of dental school (at least) and then a 4 year residency (or is that 6 years?)....and how much do these guys make a year? How much do orthodontists make a year? any websites on salaries?

What fellowships are available in OMFS and how long are they? What kind of work do you guys do....jaw reconstruction, tooth implants, ENT type surgeries? Is there a lot of competition for cases from ENT and plastic surgeons? What is the scope for plastics in OMFS (not to sound rude, but if i was getting rhinoplasty i'd rather get it done my a plastic surgeon...but i guess there is cleft lip surgery and reconstruction following accidents).

i wonder if i'd be competetive being a below average student in med schl? any of you residents involved in selecting candidates willing to let me know how competetive it is to get into this field.

Sounds like a cool job....should have gone to Dental school!

It really is a cool job... As far as scope, this is dependent on what program you go to and what you actually get trained in. Different programs emphasize different things. OMFS is really something because its surgical potential is almost anything above the clavicle. OMFS can involve exodontia (extractions for the med students ), implants, intraoral bone grafts, preprosthetic surgeries (to facilitate removable appliance delivery, etc.), facial trauma (again above the clavicle...mandible, maxilla, NOE, ZMC, cranial, etc.), facial cosmetic surgeries (blephs, rhino, face lifts, botox, you name it), head and neck cancer (this is the real nitty gritty ), and craniofacial (orthognathics or jaw surgeries, cleft lip and palate, synostosis, etc... God, I hope I hit it all).

The major fellowships offered are for cancer, craniofacial, and cosmetics. They can range from 1-2 years usually. To expand on your concern about OMFS doing cosmetics, I'd much rather have a well-trained OMFS guy do a rhino than plastics for this reason: OMFS has been focusing on the head and neck for at least 8-10 years. OMFS is also used to working on a microscale in mm's. It's really nice to work up a patient for an orthognathic case and then pitch a rhino, bleph, and/or face lift to be done during the same procedure. OMFS is also nice because you have the option of gearing your practice to your desires. If you just wanna make bank and live a more comfortable lifestyle, you can just chuck wizzies and place implants all day. If you like the more complex surgeries, you can become faculty at a Uni and do that. Or, you can teach part-time as a compromise between the two.

I believe established OMFS guys in private practice can make anywhere between 250K upwards of a cool million NET!! (the OMFS guys my father refers to make around 750K NET). I believe full time faculty can start out at around 150K and work up to around 300k if they work up the ladder.

This is just what I've learned in preparing for OMFS (JAN 30, WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU??!!). Maybe some of the residents on here can elaborate on and/or correct some of what I've said. Again, good luck!

 

[molarama]

Thank you all for the replies. I'm in med schl and like surgery but i dont want the "surgeon lifestyle" so i talked to my oral surgeon who told me to consider OMFS. I think it is a pretty cool field. So i guess i'm looking at two more years of dental school (at least) and then a 4 year residency (or is that 6 years?)....and how much do these guys make a year? How much do orthodontists make a year? any websites on salaries?

What fellowships are available in OMFS and how long are they? What kind of work do you guys do....jaw reconstruction, tooth implants, ENT type surgeries? Is there a lot of competition for cases from ENT and plastic surgeons? What is the scope for plastics in OMFS (not to sound rude, but if i was getting rhinoplasty i'd rather get it done my a plastic surgeon...but i guess there is cleft lip surgery and reconstruction following accidents).

i wonder if i'd be competetive being a below average student in med schl? any of you residents involved in selecting candidates willing to let me know how competetive it is to get into this field.

Sounds like a cool job....should have gone to Dental school![/QUOTE

below average med student will work against you.
orthodontics and omfs are two different worlds my friend.

 

[jointman]

i am psyched. i think i'd really like this field. guess i'm going to have to kick ass on the step 1. good luck with the match guys! Thanks for the info!

 

[Doggie]

i am psyched. i think i'd really like this field. guess i'm going to have to kick ass on the step 1. good luck with the match guys! Thanks for the info!

I'm just wondering........ Being in med school where you really dont recieve any dental exposures, how did you ever become interested in Oral Surgery? A lot of my ms 2 classmates say oral surgery is an awesome field, but when I said they could drop med school and go through with it, they all gave me bs excuses about staying in medicine.

 

[jointman]

I'm just wondering........ Being in med school where you really dont recieve any dental exposures, how did you ever become interested in Oral Surgery? A lot of my ms 2 classmates say oral surgery is an awesome field, but when I said they could drop med school and go through with it, they all gave me bs excuses about staying in medicine.

the way i see it is medicine...dental...same s***. i mean, dentists are similiar to a specialty of medicine, only they start learning about the oral cavity from day one instead of waiting for four years. imagine if dermatology were like that, and there was a seperate school for it. there's a lot of crap you learn in med schl u dont need in dermatology. i figure the reason dentists are dds' instead of md's is because 1. there is a demand for huge numbers of you guys and 2. there's no point in studying irrelevant crap by going to med schl 3. ego clashings. the mouth is part of the body...the same way the butt is part of the body (the part gi's work on)...so its all the same stuff.

i have always loved the idea of surgery, especially ortho, ent etc. its too competetive to get into though....so i think some of the same stuff excites me about oral surgery. plus something about surgery in the face region really excites me.....maybe its because i want to fix some seriously wrecked jaws....and i like to use drills, hammers etc....call me psycho....i can really see myself being happy trying to piece together someone's mandible, maxilla, teeth etc..

and i dont give a rats a** about titles. and i can make serious cash being an omfs without pis*** my life away, as do many general surgeons.

by the way, any of u omfs' clash with md's etc?

 

[toofache32]

...i have always loved the idea of surgery, especially ortho, ent etc. its too competetive to get into though......

If I am interpreting this correctly, you will have just as difficult of a time getting into OMFS as these others. The general cut-off just to get an interview is you need to be in the top 10% of your class and score over 90 on part 1 of the dental boards. The year I took it, a 90 was about the 88th percentile. I have no idea how this translates into the USMLE 3-digit score.

I met a guy at Louisville who went your route. He applied to OMFS his 4th year of med school but didn't match. He did a year of general surgery and matched. Louisville worked it so he could do a 6-year program including 3 years of dental school instead of the 2 years of med school the residents normally do. He had already done his general surgery year, so he is still able to cram it into 6 years, but it's still 7 years total after med school. Unfortunately for you, the MD is optional but a dental degree is required for OMFS.

The turf battles with ENT/Plastics are mainly in the academic settings because private practices for each of these are vastly different.

I was curious also how you got exposed to OMFS as a med student.

 

[esclavo]

the way i see it is medicine...dental...same s***. i mean, dentists are similiar to a specialty of medicine, only they start learning about the oral cavity from day one instead of waiting for four years. imagine if dermatology were like that, and there was a seperate school for it. there's a lot of crap you learn in med schl u dont need in dermatology. i figure the reason dentists are dds' instead of md's is because 1. there is a demand for huge numbers of you guys and 2. there's no point in studying irrelevant crap by going to med schl 3. ego clashings. the mouth is part of the body...the same way the butt is part of the body (the part gi's work on)...so its all the same stuff.

i have always loved the idea of surgery, especially ortho, ent etc. its too competetive to get into though....so i think some of the same stuff excites me about oral surgery. plus something about surgery in the face region really excites me.....maybe its because i want to fix some seriously wrecked jaws....and i like to use drills, hammers etc....call me psycho....i can really see myself being happy trying to piece together someone's mandible, maxilla, teeth etc..

and i dont give a rats a** about titles. and i can make serious cash being an omfs without pis*** my life away, as do many general surgeons.

by the way, any of u omfs' clash with md's etc?

Dermatology could definitely be a 4 year program like dentistry/podiatry. The way you do derm now is sooooo overkill. You could really do dermatology in 3 years.

Adding to toof's information, OMFS residency isn't regulated by the AMA thus 80 hour work weeks in residency are bogus. You'll probably work more than 80 hours a week on average a great portion of an OMFS residency. I'm sure the ADA will follow behind in the next 5 years....I don't know why we try to be like the AMA.... essentially a substandard professional organization....

 

[jointman]

Dermatology could definitely be a 4 year program like dentistry/podiatry. The way you do derm now is sooooo overkill. You could really do dermatology in 3 years.

Adding to toof's information, OMFS residency isn't regulated by the AMA thus 80 hour work weeks in residency are bogus. You'll probably work more than 80 hours a week on average a great portion of an OMFS residency. I'm sure the ADA will follow behind in the next 5 years....I don't know why we try to be like the AMA.... essentially a substandard professional organization....

I got exposed to OMFS by getting my wisdom tooth pulled. I think my having an interest in OMFS is as arbitrary as a first year medical student having an interest in becoming an ass doctor. First two yrs of med schl u're not really "exposed" to anything. I think my interest is probably the same as a first year dental students interest....like hands on work, good lifestyle, GREAT money. in other words, people who go into urology dont necessarily go into it because they had a profound interest in the penis that they were heavily exposed to.

There is no way in hell that OMFS is as competetive as an orthopedic surgery residency. I think if i make some changes and do well on the boards i can get in.

The ADA is as beaurocratic as the AMA. This is why dentists get paid so much, as physicians do too.

The path to becoming a dermatology is as overkill as using a nuclear warhead to hunt deer.. ..but still, salaries must be justified.....sadly some of the most brilliant minds choose a career in cosmetic derm concentrating on acne treatment.

 

[esclavo]

I got exposed to OMFS by getting my wisdom tooth pulled. I think my having an interest in OMFS is as arbitrary as a first year medical student having an interest in becoming an ass doctor. First two yrs of med schl u're not really "exposed" to anything. I think my interest is probably the same as a first year dental students interest....like hands on work, good lifestyle, GREAT money. in other words, people who go into urology dont necessarily go into it because they had a profound interest in the penis that they were heavily exposed to.

There is no way in hell that OMFS is as competetive as an orthopedic surgery residency. I think if i make some changes and do well on the boards i can get in.

The ADA is as beaurocratic as the AMA. This is why dentists get paid so much, as physicians do too.

The path to becoming a dermatology is as overkill as using a nuclear warhead to hunt deer.. ..but still, salaries must be justified.....sadly some of the most brilliant minds choose a career in cosmetic derm concentrating on acne treatment.

I think you'd be surprised at how competitive some of the dental specialties are. Dermatology: 400 different diagnosis, only 4 treatments....

 

[Bifid Uvula]

There is no way in hell that OMFS is as competetive as an orthopedic surgery residency. I think if i make some changes and do well on the boards i can get in.

I beg to differ... OMFS is much more competitive than orthopedics. There are a lot fewer OMFS spots nationwide.

 

[mtheman]

...overkill as using a nuclear warhead to hunt deer..

hunting deer with a nuke is not overkill, it's strategy

 

[WestCoast]

There is no way in hell that OMFS is as competetive as an orthopedic surgery residency. I think if i make some changes and do well on the boards i can get in.

interesting... you would be surprised. no program is going to make an exception to an average MD applicant, becaue they have the degree, so your going to be competing with other dental students who will have many many advantages over you. i would advise against going for omfs because you want to be a surgeon, but you simply don't have the grades to get into programs under medicine, because you may be in for a shock. FYI, many academic omf surgeons are non MD AND could care less about the MD, or maybe even biased against it.

 

[toofache32]

I beg to differ... OMFS is much more competitive than orthopedics. There are a lot fewer OMFS spots nationwide.

I was thinking the same thing. My med school classmates applying for ortho were worried about where they would match. Me and the other OMFS applicants always worried about if they would match. I'm not sure how a first year med student can have the dental knowledge for a valid comparison. I was in my 3rd year of dental school before I figured out what OMFS was about.

I would be really surprised if Ortho applicants have to be in the top 10% of their class just to get an interview.

 

[jointman]

You are all obviously very distinguished students to have obtained an OMFS residency. in fact i'm sure every omfs resident was taken from the top 10 percent of their respective classes. Far be it from me to stop you from basking in your glory. If you feel you need approval, I salute you and shall provide you with a pat on the back so you can prance around with a macho attitude and feel you are superior to every surgical field out there.

Perhaps OMFS is more competetive than Ortho....whichever is more competetive, i dont really give a damn. It interests me, i appreciate your positive info. and i'll go for it if i so please. if respect from others was what i was after, i would probably settle to be a respected allopathic doctor than a dental surgeon.....last time i checked it was a lot more competetive to get into a medical school than a dental school....and dental surgeons were viewed as "wannabe" surgeons.....perhaps someday these things will change and some of you can feel even better about yourselves.

I would be interested in how a dental student would be so passionate about dental hygeine prior to entering dental school or during his/her first two years....what makes an interest in dentistry different from an interest in medicine.....was it a preoccupation with oral fixations?....or did you all grow up being passionate about stopping tooth decay because someone in your family died from sepsis, a result of rotting teeth. or maybe you just liked the taste of colgate toothpaste and the idea of whitening someone's smile. I know my friends who went into dental went into it because of 1. lifestyle 2. money 3. they were uncompetetive applicants to medical school. My interest doesnt seem any more odd than your interests, but if you feel so, to each his own.....and may you be blessed to find better ways of preventing gingivitis, tooth decay and smelly breath....or whatever gets you off.

either way, sounds cool to me and i'm going for it. good lifestyle, good money, interesting. wish me luck. thank you all who gave me positive info. i hope this message doesnt p*** you off too badly. it was intended for your collegues who replied in arrogance

 

[WestCoast]

either way, sounds cool to me and i'm going for it. good lifestyle, good money, interesting. wish me luck. thank you all who gave me positive info. i hope this message doesnt p*** you off too badly. it was intended for your collegues who replied in arrogance

i'll be sure to be look out for your application in the future if you decide to apply. good luck.

 

[jointman]

i'll be sure to be look out for your application in the future if you decide to apply. good luck.

thank you for your willingness to help me. i'll be sure to notify you when i'm applying. (arent those the most beautiful pair of pearly whites you've ever seen....i think i got some corn stuck in 'em during dinner....anyone wanna help me by picking that sucker out)

 

[Ankylosed]

i have always loved the idea of surgery, especially ortho, ent etc. its too competetive to get into though....so i think some of the same stuff excites me about oral surgery. plus something about surgery in the face region really excites me.....maybe its because i want to fix some seriously wrecked jaws....and i like to use drills, hammers etc....call me psycho....i can really see myself being happy trying to piece together someone's mandible, maxilla, teeth etc..

You are a psycho.. If power tools are what you are looking for I would highly suggest orthopaedics. You can wack away with 10 lb mallets (not hammers *****) and use big sagittal saws to do osteotomies. I really think you would have an inferior sized mallet complex merely doing OMFS. Wow, your story about the OMFS pulling your 3rd's and inspiring you to do oral surgery really brought a tear to my eye, I mean wow what drive you have. It touched me in my special place. With the relative ease of med school vs. dental school and your mediocre performance against your counterparts, I really don't believe you have what it takes to do omfs. Sorry to crush your hopes of a comfortable lifestyle.. There will just be more wrecked jaws for me

 

[mtheman]

You are a psycho.. If power tools are what you are looking for I would highly suggest orthopaedics. You can wack away with 10 lb mallets (not hammers *****) and use big sagittal saws to do osteotomies. I really think you would have an inferior sized mallet complex merely doing OMFS. Wow, your story about the OMFS pulling your 3rd's and inspiring you to do oral surgery really brought a tear to my eye, I mean wow what drive you have. It touched me in my special place. With the relative ease of med school vs. dental school and your mediocre performance against your counterparts, I really don't believe you have what it takes to do omfs. Sorry to crush your hopes of a comfortable lifestyle.. There will just be more wrecked jaws for me

True That!!!!!!!

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

You are all obviously very distinguished students to have obtained an OMFS residency. in fact i'm sure every omfs resident was taken from the top 10 percent of their respective classes. Far be it from me to stop you from basking in your glory. If you feel you need approval, I salute you and shall provide you with a pat on the back so you can prance around with a macho attitude and feel you are superior to every surgical field out there.

Perhaps OMFS is more competetive than Ortho....whichever is more competetive, i dont really give a damn. It interests me, i appreciate your positive info. and i'll go for it if i so please. if respect from others was what i was after, i would probably settle to be a respected allopathic doctor than a dental surgeon.....last time i checked it was a lot more competetive to get into a medical school than a dental school....and dental surgeons were viewed as "wannabe" surgeons.....perhaps someday these things will change and some of you can feel even better about yourselves.

I would be interested in how a dental student would be so passionate about dental hygeine prior to entering dental school or during his/her first two years....what makes an interest in dentistry different from an interest in medicine.....was it a preoccupation with oral fixations?....or did you all grow up being passionate about stopping tooth decay because someone in your family died from sepsis, a result of rotting teeth. or maybe you just liked the taste of colgate toothpaste and the idea of whitening someone's smile. I know my friends who went into dental went into it because of 1. lifestyle 2. money 3. they were uncompetetive applicants to medical school. My interest doesnt seem any more odd than your interests, but if you feel so, to each his own.....and may you be blessed to find better ways of preventing gingivitis, tooth decay and smelly breath....or whatever gets you off.

either way, sounds cool to me and i'm going for it. good lifestyle, good money, interesting. wish me luck. thank you all who gave me positive info. i hope this message doesnt p*** you off too badly. it was intended for your collegues who replied in arrogance

I've enjoyed reading your posts--mainly for the quality and accuracy of your information and the overall insight that you provide.

 

[adamlc18]

You are a psycho.. If power tools are what you are looking for I would highly suggest orthopaedics. You can wack away with 10 lb mallets (not hammers *****) and use big sagittal saws to do osteotomies. I really think you would have an inferior sized mallet complex merely doing OMFS. Wow, your story about the OMFS pulling your 3rd's and inspiring you to do oral surgery really brought a tear to my eye, I mean wow what drive you have. It touched me in my special place. With the relative ease of med school vs. dental school and your mediocre performance against your counterparts, I really don't believe you have what it takes to do omfs. Sorry to crush your hopes of a comfortable lifestyle.. There will just be more wrecked jaws for me

I think you are thinking of your urologist. Speaking of which, I remember a time when I had a colonoscopy; it really inspired me to want to be a proctologist. I heard their lifestyle is great...plus they get a lot of a#*.

 

[Doggie]

I think you are thinking of your urologist. Speaking of which, I remember a time when I had a colonoscopy; it really inspired me to want to be a proctologist. I heard their lifestyle is great...plus they get a lot of a#*.

I heard proctologists get more @$$ than a toilet seat!! And urologists can give great handjobs. HAHAHAHA

 

[Ankylosed]

I think you are thinking of your urologist. *.

Sorry, wrong forum.

 

[Jediwendell]

Columbia has a few MDs as well. Ask admissions here. The guy who is doing his DDS right now is also working at medical based clinic to make some money.

And he can take out teeth better than some fith year oral surgery residents........

No lie.