Loan Repayment Program advice

[AlteredScale]

I am looking to apply for the NIH LRP as I have a fairly heft amount of loans to repay. Some questions I have are:

- Can I apply for this now/soonish in preparation to start the dedicated research time in 1-2 years? Should I wait 1 year into my research time to build up enough preliminary data for the application?
- What's the best way to strengthen my application/proposal? I was able to see a successful application from a junior faculty from our lab and there was so much in there.
- Does acceptance to an LRP strengthen ones ability to land other awards in the K area?

TIA

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[SurfingDoctor]

I am looking to apply for the NIH LRP as I have a fairly heft amount of loans to repay. Some questions I have are:

- Can I apply for this now/soonish in preparation to start the dedicated research time in 1-2 years? Should I wait 1 year into my research time to build up enough preliminary data for the application?
- What's the best way to strengthen my application/proposal? I was able to see a successful application from a junior faculty from our lab and there was so much in there.
- Does acceptance to an LRP strengthen ones ability to land other awards in the K area?

TIA

Whew, it's been a long time since I submitted my LRP application (I found I still have a copy of it.... ha), but I'll give you best guesses realizing that the proposal I wrote over a decade ago probably isn't as relevant nowadays.

1) The reality is that you really just need a mentor and a general proposal. That's the extent of it. The LRP application I submitted was actually a KL2 proposal I submitted as a resident when 1) I hadn't step foot in a lab in about 4 or 5 years and 2) the mentor was at a different institution in a different state. Of course, by the time I submitted the LRP, I was in the lab and had been so for about a year, but I was also a second year fellow and had spent nearly 80% of that year doing clinical work. So I didn't really have nearly any preliminary data. Actually, looking at the proposal I saved, I don't see any figures, but maybe it was a draft. I have no idea, because its old. That being said, if you have a research plan, then just use your mentor's preliminary data. Really, the key is a mentor, a reasonable research plan with aims and hypotheses, and a personal statement why you want to pursue research.

2) As above. I mean, the more you can add the better, but there are page limits. Also a great personal statement and a strong mentor letter goes a long way.

3) Nope. Not one bit in my opinion/experience.

I also happen to be an LRP Ambassador. Here's a little snip-it from the email they sent a couple of years ago (though I don't know how helpful it is):

How Can You Help Potential Applicants Get Ready? Suggest they...​

• Obtain their NIH Commons ID and make sure their password is up to date
• Check out our LRP Application Guide to learn about application components
• Reach out to an NIH LRP Program Officer to discuss their research
• Reach out to their Institutional Business Official (IBO) and inform them of their desire to apply

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Whew, it's been a long time since I submitted my LRP application (I found I still have a copy of it.... ha), but I'll give you best guesses realizing that the proposal I wrote over a decade ago probably isn't as relevant nowadays.

1) The reality is that you really just need a mentor and a general proposal. That's the extent of it. The LRP application I submitted was actually a KL2 proposal I submitted as a resident when 1) I hadn't step foot in a lab in about 4 or 5 years and 2) the mentor was at a different institution in a different state. Of course, by the time I submitted the LRP, I was in the lab and had been so for about a year, but I was also a second year fellow and had spent nearly 80% of that year doing clinical work. So I didn't really have nearly any preliminary data. Actually, looking at the proposal I saved, I don't see any figures, but maybe it was a draft. I have no idea, because its old. That being said, if you have a research plan, then just use your mentor's preliminary data. Really, the key is a mentor, a reasonable research plan with aims and hypotheses, and a personal statement why you want to pursue research.

2) As above. I mean, the more you can add the better, but there are page limits. Also a great personal statement and a strong mentor letter goes a long way.

3) Nope. Not one bit in my opinion/experience.

I also happen to be an LRP Ambassador. Here's a little snip-it from the email they sent a couple of years ago (though I don't know how helpful it is):

How Can You Help Potential Applicants Get Ready? Suggest they...​

• Obtain their NIH Commons ID and make sure their password is up to date
• Check out our LRP Application Guide to learn about application components
• Reach out to an NIH LRP Program Officer to discuss their research
• Reach out to their Institutional Business Official (IBO) and inform them of their desire to apply

Those links don't seem to work:

LRP Application Guide (https://era.nih.gov/files/LRP/LRP_user_guide.pdf)
LRP Program Officer (Contact & Engage | National Institutes of Health | Division of Loan Repayment)

 

[AlteredScale]

Whew, it's been a long time since I submitted my LRP application (I found I still have a copy of it.... ha), but I'll give you best guesses realizing that the proposal I wrote over a decade ago probably isn't as relevant nowadays.

1) The reality is that you really just need a mentor and a general proposal. That's the extent of it. The LRP application I submitted was actually a KL2 proposal I submitted as a resident when 1) I hadn't step foot in a lab in about 4 or 5 years and 2) the mentor was at a different institution in a different state. Of course, by the time I submitted the LRP, I was in the lab and had been so for about a year, but I was also a second year fellow and had spent nearly 80% of that year doing clinical work. So I didn't really have nearly any preliminary data. Actually, looking at the proposal I saved, I don't see any figures, but maybe it was a draft. I have no idea, because its old. That being said, if you have a research plan, then just use your mentor's preliminary data. Really, the key is a mentor, a reasonable research plan with aims and hypotheses, and a personal statement why you want to pursue research.

2) As above. I mean, the more you can add the better, but there are page limits. Also a great personal statement and a strong mentor letter goes a long way.

3) Nope. Not one bit in my opinion/experience.

I also happen to be an LRP Ambassador. Here's a little snip-it from the email they sent a couple of years ago (though I don't know how helpful it is):

How Can You Help Potential Applicants Get Ready? Suggest they...​

• Obtain their NIH Commons ID and make sure their password is up to date
• Check out our LRP Application Guide to learn about application components
• Reach out to an NIH LRP Program Officer to discuss their research
• Reach out to their Institutional Business Official (IBO) and inform them of their desire to apply

Wow thank you so much for the incredible information! I really appreciate it.

I am hopeful to get something situated now that we are headed back to repayment of student loans.

Not sure it this is beyond the info you have, but is there any preference to MD vs PhD for these awards?

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Wow thank you so much for the incredible information! I really appreciate it.

I am hopeful to get something situated now that we are headed back to repayment of student loans.

Not sure it this is beyond the info you have, but is there any preference to MD vs PhD for these awards?

I don’t know the specifics, but if I had to guess, I would say it doesn’t matter. From the NIHs perspective, a “great” mentor is 1) who is senior enough to have a track record of successful trainees (so an associate professor is usually okay for an LRP but a full professor is needed for a K) AND most importantly, 2) they have NIH funding to carry you through for direct costs during the award period. They rest is generally irrelevant.

 

[AlteredScale]

I don’t know the specifics, but if I had to guess, I would say it doesn’t matter. From the NIHs perspective, a “great” mentor is 1) who is senior enough to have a track record of successful trainees (so an associate professor is usually okay for an LRP but a full professor is needed for a K) AND most importantly, 2) they have NIH funding to carry you through for direct costs during the award period. They rest is generally irrelevant.

Okay that sounds good. Luckily my mentor is a full professor. The second part I am not so sure if that as infolded into their current VA/NIH grant since the award for it was a 1-2 years ago.

Timing wise I am wondering if this sounds right: I start as a fellow 07/2022 and end clinical fellowship end of 2023 (18 months) or mid 2024 (24 months) then start the 36 months of research. So I should plan to apply for the 2023 deadline?

Have you ever heard of anyone applying for F32 and LRP at the same time?

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Okay that sounds good. Luckily my mentor is a full professor. The second part I am not so sure if that as infolded into their current VA/NIH grant since the award for it was a 1-2 years ago.

Timing wise I am wondering if this sounds right: I start as a fellow 07/2022 and end clinical fellowship end of 2023 (18 months) or mid 2024 (24 months) then start the 36 months of research. So I should plan to apply for the 2023 deadline?

Have you ever heard of anyone applying for F32 and LRP at the same time?

I don't remember the requirements of the LRP. Is there a requirement of protected time? If there is, it makes sense to apply so the research and the LRP award have significant overlap (especially if you want to show productivity and success so you can renew it).

As for the second question yes. I know someone on an F who just submitted an LRP. Additionally, my time on the LRP directly overlapped with time on a T32. Also:

 

[SurfingDoctor]

FYI, straight from the LRP Ambassador counseling guide:

What are the Criteria by Which Extramural LRP Applications Are Evaluated?

The applicant's potential to pursue a career in research, including:
-Appropriateness of the applicant's previous training and experience to prepare for a research career;
-Appropriateness of the proposed research activities during the LRP award period to foster a career in research;
-Commitment to a research career, as reflected by the personal statement of long-term career goals and plan to achieve those goals; and
- Strength of the reference letters (recommendations) attesting to the applicant's potential for a successful career in research.

Quality of the overall environment to prepare the applicant for a research career, including:
-Quality and availability of appropriate scientific mentors and colleagues to help achieve or enhance the applicant's research independence, including the mentors' record in mentoring researchers, funding history and research productivity; and
-Quality and appropriateness of institutional resources and facilities.

For renewal award applications, progress under the previous project period is an additional evaluation criterion:
-Assessment of the renewal applicant's research accomplishments during the previous LRP support period; and
-Assessment of the renewal applicant's development as an independent investigator.

 

[AlteredScale]

FYI, straight from the LRP Ambassador counseling guide:

What are the Criteria by Which Extramural LRP Applications Are Evaluated?

The applicant's potential to pursue a career in research, including:
-Appropriateness of the applicant's previous training and experience to prepare for a research career;
-Appropriateness of the proposed research activities during the LRP award period to foster a career in research;
-Commitment to a research career, as reflected by the personal statement of long-term career goals and plan to achieve those goals; and
- Strength of the reference letters (recommendations) attesting to the applicant's potential for a successful career in research.

Quality of the overall environment to prepare the applicant for a research career, including:
-Quality and availability of appropriate scientific mentors and colleagues to help achieve or enhance the applicant's research independence, including the mentors' record in mentoring researchers, funding history and research productivity; and
-Quality and appropriateness of institutional resources and facilities.

For renewal award applications, progress under the previous project period is an additional evaluation criterion:
-Assessment of the renewal applicant's research accomplishments during the previous LRP support period; and
-Assessment of the renewal applicant's development as an independent investigator.

Thank you for all this awesome information @SurfingDoctor . Appreciate it a lot!

I just saw that concurrent F32 and LRP can be a bit iffy with regards to the payback period. I am having a hard time with the timing but if I am approved for LRP for 2 of the three years then I can technically be on the F32 and complete the NRSA payback period during the third and final research year right?

Since LRP pay is a taxable incommode did you ever find that to be an issue? I know they compensate for it with some adjustments.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Thank you for all this awesome information @SurfingDoctor . Appreciate it a lot!

I just saw that concurrent F32 and LRP can be a bit iffy with regards to the payback period. I am having a hard time with the timing but if I am approved for LRP for 2 of the three years then I can technically be on the F32 and complete the NRSA payback period during the third and final research year right?

Since LRP pay is a taxable incommode did you ever find that to be an issue? I know they compensate for it with some adjustments.

Yes. There is some stipulation if I recall that after the LRP, you are suppose to continue to do research and during that time, you can be on any training grant.

As for the last question, I sure did. I actually forgot that part and then when it ended, because I didn’t withhold enough income, got hit with a whopper of a tax bill. My wife was super pissed. But we figured it out. It also paid off a huge chunk of my loans though, so that softened the blow.

 

[AlteredScale]

Yes. There is some stipulation if I recall that after the LRP, you are suppose to continue to do research and during that time, you can be on any training grant.

As for the last question, I sure did. I actually forgot that part and then when it ended, because I didn’t withhold enough income, got hit with a whopper of a tax bill. My wife was super pissed. But we figured it out. It also paid off a huge chunk of my loans though, so that softened the blow.

Oh dang, so even with that extra payment that they make it still hit you hard huh? (the statement where they say they pay the IRS 39% of the actual loan)

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Oh dang, so even with that extra payment that they make it still hit you hard huh? (the statement where they say they pay the IRS 39% of the actual loan)

They do pay a chunk but those loans are for tens of thousands of dollars that’s taxable income. There’s a maximum loan amount you are eligible for annually depending on your debt. I got that but like I said, I didn’t withhold adequately. When we got the tax bill it was several thousands of dollars than came as an unexpected expense. I mean, like I said, it wasnt the end of the world mostly because my wife had a good job that paid well while I was still a trainee, but we (or that is to say… I) should have planned better.