Last Spot(s) on my Apply List

[TTSBT]

The Issue:
Trying to fill the last spot(s) on my apply list. I received FAP, so I am applying to 14 schools without charge. Just graduated from college and learning quickly that the real word is more than I bargained for financially, so I honestly do not think I can afford to apply to more than 14 (maybe, I could swing 16 or 18... but I prefer to just leave it at 14).

The list: My list is definitely top heavy. I honestly don't believe in the concept of a "safety school"... if I don't like the school upfront, then I'd be wasting my time even applying... so I'm only applying to schools about which I am excited to apply. NEED 1 MORE school to make 14.

1. Wash U. – St. Louis
2. U. Chicago
3. U. Pittsburgh/Carnegie Mellon
4. Northwestern
5. Johns Hopkins
6. Duke
7. Emory
8. Yale
9. Penn
10. Columbia
11. Harvard
12. Vanderbilt
13. UNC - Chapel Hill MD-PhD


My Background: My stats are 3.5ish cGPA and sciGPA. I'm taking the MCAT in July, so unfortunately I won't have that to help me guage my chances prior to submitting the AMCAS. However, I am prepared to add less competitive schools that I actually do like if I'm not happy with my scores when they come back in August. They say having URM and disadvantaged status help, but I'm not banking on that.

I'll have 2 summers, 2 school years, and a year off of research. I have outstanding research LORs from mentors and honors committee members... as well as strong generic med school LORs from university professors and health sciences office. I received highest honors for my senior thesis research, which is my sole publication. In my year off, I am continuing in my most recent lab as the head of project that affords intense clinical and research exposure.

Interests:
Although I've worked most intensely in immunology, I am also growing an interest in biochemistry... and maybe any other science that sparks my interest. Therefore, I'm trying to apply to schools that have a good immunology program AND other good options in case I am drawn elsewhere.

Considering Adding 1 or more of the following to my list:
UT Southwestern MD-PhD
U. Rochester
Baylor
UVA – Charlottesville

I've struggled with this for so long that I would greatly appreciate your feedback. Specifically, would you make any changes to my list as it stands now? If not, which 1 school would you add and why? Any thoughts on or experience with the schools I'm considering applying to/adding to my list? If you were me, would you suck it up financially and apply to more than 14 schools just to be safe? If so, how many... and any suggestions? I ask that you please give your current status (pre/current/graduated/established MD-PhD, etc.) in your response.Thanks!

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[TTSBT]

Fyi... the following schools are schools that I kind of tossed out based on location biases. However, I'd be willing to hear a plug that any of you might have for a particular school. Afterall, I've never lived at any of these places... I'm just going with the impressions I've gotten. I want to be sure to fully consider all of my options without cutting any school out for trivial reasons.

U. Michigan - College/football emphasis... program has not yet caught my eye.
Cornell/Tri-I - Great research but expensive NY and I don't see them doing enough to help me live there without struggling.
Mayo - Sounds like an excellent program/school... but Rochester???
Case Western Reserve - Consistently ranked one of worst cities in US... and I wasn't completely blown away by program.
U. Wisconsin - Madison - Small college town... not sure how I feel about this, Madison, or the program.

***Another fyi... West coast is out of the running because it's entirely too far from family and significant other. Since they're in the South, I'm thinking Southern/East Coast schools hold more weight with me.

 

[Raziela]

It will be difficult for any of us to help you without an MCAT score in hand. A 30 vs. a 40 makes all the difference, especially considering your mediocre GPA.

 

[justgo]

Not to be a debbie downer, but your GPA is not going to make you competitive at many of the schools on your list....so you'll need to hope that your MCAT is above 36 at least I would say. Do you think this will be the case? Also, as you are getting your MCAT relatively late, you will be down the list on schools already so you will need to turn secondaries around very quickly and hope you get interview spots.

I also don't think you should assume that your URM/FAP status will help you. I am both those things and my GPA and MCAT are both in the "excellent" categories based on the "chances" sticky above, plus I have 9 years of research and 5 publications out and indexed and I'm still the normal age for MD/PhD applicants. URMs and FAP folks are competitive too....scrappy. I am applying this round with you.

As to programs, based on your interest in Immuno and your preference for the south I think you absolutely must put University of Alabama Birmingham on your list. You could also consider Duke based on what your MCAT score is. I would also say that Case Western should be on your list no matter.

If I was in your shoes I would probably take some of the upper tier schools off and replace them with quality schools in "less desirable" locations.

 

[delirium81]

Not to be a debbie downer, but your GPA is not going to make you competitive at many of the schools on your list....so you'll need to hope that your MCAT is above 36 at least I would say. Do you think this will be the case? Also, as you are getting your MCAT relatively late, you will be down the list on schools already so you will need to turn secondaries around very quickly and hope you get interview spots.

I also don't think you should assume that your URM/FAP status will help you. I am both those things and my GPA and MCAT are both in the "excellent" categories based on the "chances" sticky above, plus I have 9 years of research and 5 publications out and indexed and I'm still the normal age for MD/PhD applicants. URMs and FAP folks are competitive too....scrappy. I am applying this round with you.

Justgo is right that your GPA isn't in the super competitive range, but it sounds like you have plenty of other things going for you and if your MCAT is 35+, I think you stand a decent chance at a top tier school. Also, if you had extenuating circumstances that contributed to your lower GPA, e.g. working full time for all or part of undergrad, admissions committees will take that into account. They will also definitely take URM status into account. Just because there are some URM candidates out there with "perfect" stats, doesn't mean it won't help you. It will. That said, I agree with justgo that it might not be a bad idea to throw in a few safety schools. How can you even be 100% sure that you won't like the school/area if you haven't visited? I think throwing in some more options in the midwest (like U. Wisconsin, Case Western, UT-Southwestern etc.) is a good idea. They're excellent programs that don't have the increased competitiveness of a super popular location. The question is, do you want to risk not getting accepted this round? Can you afford to apply again next round? It might be worth it to try to include more schools on your list since it could mean the difference between getting in this round vs. needing to re-apply next year.

 

[justgo]

Also, If you follow reasoning above and somehow do not get accepted this year/your MCAT comes back poorly remember that you only qualify to USE FAP for the MCAT once (or don't get the full waiver the second time...), and I'm not sure about the policy with applications. You should look to see if you can get FAP waivers two years in a row for applications.

As to secondary fees, every school I have checked/emailed (and my list is a long one) waives the secondary if you qualify for FAP so if you can swing the 30, 60, 90 bucks to add some additional schools in any way I think it is something to definitely consider. Plus, look at schools that pay for interview travel (hrumph UAB....) and consider those as "back-ups" that won't cost you anything but the $30 primary per school. I know it is expensive....believe me, I understand....but its once in a life time.

Also, did not mean to imply that the rest of your app beyond GPA was not quality. Just that I think the bump from URM/FAP might not be as big as folks think it is (I specifically talked to one of my research mentors about this because I have been awarded NIH fellowships as a URM previously and had some questions about how to put those on my app)....So I personally wouldn't risk applying to schools "outside my range" before applying to other quality schools based on thinking that URM will get you the seat or a bump up the list. The point is....there is always a URM with better stats then the last one (and I include myself in this) vying for the same spot. I am always very cautious on these things though.

 

[delirium81]

Just wanted to clarify a few things from my post. First, none of the schools on your list or that others have suggested are sure fire safety schools, especially if your MCAT score isn't stellar. However an excellent MCAT score can go a long way in making up for a mediocre GPA particularly in cases where extenuating circumstances were present.

And though URM status certainly won't guarantee you a spot, with a publication, excellent LORs, and a good MCAT, I do think you have a decent chance at a top twenty. FYI, I've sat in on MD/PhD ad com meetings for a couple years so I have a pretty decent understanding of how candidates are discussed.

 

[TTSBT]

Thanks for the advice, everyone! All very good points. The one that resonated with me most... would I rather pay the cost now or risk reapplying? This is so important to me that I figure I should just go all out (debt and all... lol) instead of worrying towards the end of the process. I've decided to just go ahead and apply to a broad list of 20 schools. This will end up costing about $300, including fees that my school charges for LOR services. I just need a list I feel I will be comfortable with regardless of the MCAT score. I plan on applying to 14 or 16 now... and adding 6 or 4 after my MCAT (depending on score). So... now it comes down to... which 14 or 16 now before I even get my score back?

I'm thinking something like this is realistic...
Original AMCAS (Free FAP 14):
1. Wash U. – St. Louis
2. U. Chicago
3. U. Pittsburgh/Carnegie Mellon
4. Northwestern
5. Duke
6. Emory
7. Yale
8. Penn
9. Vanderbilt
10. UNC - Chapel Hill MD-PhD
11. U. Rochester
12. Baylor
13. UVA – Charlottesville
14. UT Southwestern MD-PhD

1st Tier Options (Only if MCAT 35+):
15. Harvard
16. Columbia
17. Johns Hopkins
18. (Plus one of the 2nd Tier options)


2nd Tier Options (if MCAT 30+):
15. U. Wisconsin - Madison
16. Case Western Reserve
17. Mayo
18. UAB – Birmingham
19. U. Michigan
20. (Plus one of the 1st Tier options)


3rd Tier Options (if MCAT below 30):
15.. MUSC
16.. Non-MSTP MD-PhD
17.-20.(Plus 4 of the 2nd Tier options)

 

[TTSBT]

My P.I. (a phenomenal, well-respected MD-PhD) seems to think that I could apply to 10-14 of the top programs and easily gain admission. It's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks he has a tad bit too much faith in me! Thanks for the reality check, guys!

 

[whiteshadodw]

My P.I. (a phenomenal, well-respected MD-PhD) seems to think that I could apply to 10-14 of the top programs and easily gain admission. It's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks he has a tad bit too much faith in me! Thanks for the reality check, guys!

just want to chime in about the FAP application stuff. you can only receive FAP for a total of FIVE years in your life...lol

From the AAMC website:
"How many times can I receive FAP?
An examinee/applicant may receive fee assistance for MCAT and/or AMCAS through the Fee Assistance Program (FAP) for a maximum of five (5) calendar years during his or her lifetime, so that other examinees may also benefit from this program."

here's to hoping that we don't need any more than this year.

 

[gbwillner]

If I were you I'd think about what kind of research I want to do and list programs that are good in that particular field. I agree that you should probably apply to 20-25 programs with your GPA and uncertain MCAT score. Be advised that if you do poorly on the MCAT (<30) you run a real risk of not getting any acceptances.

Good luck!

 

[Tesseract]

If I were you I'd think about what kind of research I want to do and list programs that are good in that particular field. I agree that you should probably apply to 20-25 programs with your GPA and uncertain MCAT score. Be advised that if you do poorly on the MCAT (<30) you run a real risk of not getting any acceptances.

Good luck!

This. But, have you taken a look at the MSAR for number comparisons? Some programs (e. g. Emory) also list their average acceptance GPA/MCAT on their websites. Either may be worthwhile to check so you don't waste money applying to mega-reach programs.

With that said, telling you to pick programs purely on numbers is difficult- too much (LOR, grades, MCAT, research, clinical volunteering, life experiences, etc.) goes into an application. I would follow the quoted advice and maybe think about where you would like to live. Can you handle inner city Baltimore for eight years? Do you need a vibrant night scene to balance your work? I'm matriculating this summer. I applied to 23 programs and spent about 6k$ on the application process (primaries, secondaries, and interviews).

Your list of 14 is probably still top-heavy. But, if you're comfortable with it, then try it. How is the stipend at Cornell/Tri-I? Both NYU and Mount Sinai offer $30k+ stipends for their students (more than enough with subsidized housing from what I hear). And NYU just started building a massive research building to house future neuroscience and immunology-related labs.

Feel free to PM me if you have more questions or want my take on the application process.

Best wishes!

 

[K31]

With a mediocre GPA and unknown MCAT, I'd err on the high side in terms of program numbers for AMCAS. Applying is an expensive process (although less so for MD/PhDs since some programs help out with interview expenses) and the AMCAS fees are only a small part of that, especially compared to interview travel. If I were you I would apply widely now, and when you have secondaries and your MCAT score in hand you can triage accordingly.

As regards applying as an URM, my impression is that it really doesn't help a whole lot. We had a post-bacc working in the lab and considering applying MD/PhD, and I was discussing his situation with the director of my MD/PhD program (one of the ones on your list). From that discussion, with a decent MCAT but middling GPA they usually can get a candidate they want accepted to the medical school. It is much tougher to compensate for a low MCAT score, so study hard and knock that out of the park.

 

[phatlineman]

Be careful here...Tesseract are you going to NYU/Sinai or a place in NYC?
Its much much much tougher to get into NYU/Einstein than to get into Emory or Case Western even though NYU/Einstein are ranked below number 30 while Emory and Case is in the top 25.
I think for example Emory had ~250 applications for 10 spots while Einstein and NYU both had ~400 applications for 10-15 spots. I originally wanted to go to school in NYC or California, but I don't think I was competitive enough to get into those schools. Alas, I'm headed to med school (a good school though) in the middle of nowhere.

You're seriously selling yourself short by neglecting the schools in the midwest and south. Schools that should consider adding are Iowa,UAB,Colorado,Wisconsin,UNC,Ohio State

With that said, telling you to pick programs purely on numbers is difficult- too much (LOR, grades, MCAT, research, clinical volunteering, life experiences, etc.) goes into an application. I would follow the quoted advice and maybe think about where you would like to live. Can you handle inner city Baltimore for eight years? Do you need a vibrant night scene to balance your work? I'm matriculating this summer. I applied to 23 programs and spent about 6k$ on the application process (primaries, secondaries, and interviews).

Your list of 14 is probably still top-heavy. But, if you're comfortable with it, then try it. How is the stipend at Cornell/Tri-I? Both NYU and Mount Sinai offer $30k+ stipends for their students (more than enough with subsidized housing from what I hear). And NYU just started building a massive research building to house future neuroscience and immunology-related labs.

Feel free to PM me if you have more questions or want my take on the application process.

Best wishes!

 

[nheit]

This is not a weigh in of your chances of getting into the MSTPs that you listed, but do you have a sufficient plan B if you get rejected from every school you apply to? If so I'm all for it; apply only to the schools that you want to go to. If you don't get in, do the meaningful plan B and try again next year. However, if that potential year off is uncertain, you might find yourself within a world of stress and anxiety. There is no "guarantee" when it comes to admission into an MD/PhD program let alone the top-20 MSTPs.