Kaiser vs WashU vs Mayo (Az)

[Trippanzee]

Hi all,


I would just like to preface that I am very very lucky to be at this point and making these decisions. Especially after months of nothing but WLs has taken its toll on my confidence. Crazy cycle.


That said I would really appreciate some input on deciding between these schools. Right now I'm deciding most between WashU and Kaiser, unless Mayo provides some very generous aid.


WashU

Pros:

• Research: As a T10, will give me access to plentiful research opportunities. I do hope to perform research as it's important for residency + I genuinely think it can be used as a form of advocacy.
• Prestige & later opportunities: Having the WashU name will open doors that Kaiser likely will not. Likely this will make matching easier later in life.
• Match List: Sent people to loads of prestigious schools but conversely also sent almost no one back to CA.
• Established hospital: wide range of cases
• Established MD/MPH degree & more connections within the Public Health World
• Great program for ER & Trauma
• College town
• I get to try living in a new place.
• Larger class- I like meeting new people so this is fun.

Cons:

• Far from home & family.
• St Louis & Missouri are nowhere near as nice as Pasadena (I can make this work for 4 years tho).
• Is rumored to be a very competitive student environment, which scares the hell out of me. I came form a very competitive undergrad and have no wish to re-experience that. Tho, students have told me this isn't true with P/F
• Can't surf (not that I'm any good on my best day anyway)
• I'd be $500k in debt compared to Kaiser.

Kaiser

Pros:

• Location: Pasadena is a nice place to live & close to family
• Price: Free + a COL stipend every year, which would allow me to graduate debt-free
• Match list: Pretty impressive match in California. I would have a better chance to remain in California
• Freedom: I would have the freedom to choose less competitive/well-compensated specialties.
• P/F
• Chill vibe of students & school puts a lot of effort into student well-being.
• I would probably be happier in Pasadena, CA, but I am open to trying new places. I have heard St Louis is slept on.
• More friends in LA
• Massive epi databases make for a very rich publication environment.
• Kaiser does lots of clinic research. Tho less accessible than traditional schools
• No undergrad campus/college town
• Kaiser is King in CA. Would be easier to match into CA residencies.

Cons:

• Less traditional Education: No cadaver lab. As someone potentially interested (maybe, huge maybe) in surgery, this is a drawback
• Clinical rotations: No central hospital, so I would need to drive 30-1.5 hour to get to sites. Kaiser pays for ubers to and from clinical sites.

Research: Little research occurs here, which is a big drawback for me. Plus this will make residency apps harder

Mayo (AZ)

Pros:

• Great Match List
• Small class - lots of resources
• Closer to family scattered throughout American southwest.
• Sunny
• P/F
• Access to an excellent health network & Institution

Cons:

• AZ seems to hate women based off their recent affirmation of a certain civil war era laws
• No Campus
• Have to wear suits to class and campus.

I'd appreciate any advice folks may have.

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[RunnerDad]

Congratulations on these great acceptances! I just want to update you on AZ's situation with respect to that certain civil rights era law. Some background may be helpful. About six years ago, then-governor Doug Ducey unilaterally added two state supreme court justices, which turned AZ's five-member, progressive-leaning court into a seven-member, conservative-controlled court. The results of that were predictable, culminating in the decision last month to uphold an 1864 ban on certain procedures under just about every possible circumstance. That's the bad news, and I think it ends there. Here's the good news:
(1) The state legislature -- even though narrowly controlled by R's -- just passed a law repealing the 1864 law, because they're scared out of their minds that the supreme court just cost them their jobs this November. The (now) progressive governor will be signing it if she hasn't already.
(2) A statewide ballot initiative is nearly certain to be approved by voters in November, which will enshrine reproductive rights in the AZ state constitution. A fairly strong majority of the public in AZ does not hate women at all!

My premed kid is applying this coming cycle, and they'd very much like to wind up at Mayo-AZ because of its connection with Barrow Brain & Spine and other top clinical institutions. Mayo may not have a campus, and I think the suits requirement is odd (although, I guess, welcome to life in the profession), but there are amazing things to do for fun in Phoenix and it's only a half-day drive to SoCal.

It seems, although I could be mistaken, that committing to Kaiser means also committing to their health system in terms of clinical and residency opportunities, which in my mind is pretty limiting (although there are probably ample opportunities within that realm, if you've bought in).

I can't speak to WashU, but it would be more of a culture change for you than either of the western schools for sure. That's probably what keeps their applicant numbers below most of the T10s; I, too, have heard St. Louis is underrated.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[Trippanzee]

Congratulations on these great acceptances! I just want to update you on AZ's situation with respect to that certain civil rights era law. Some background may be helpful. About six years ago, then-governor Doug Ducey unilaterally added two state supreme court justices, which turned AZ's five-member, progressive-leaning court into a seven-member, conservative-controlled court. The results of that were predictable, culminating in the decision last month to uphold an 1864 ban on certain procedures under just about every possible circumstance. That's the bad news, and I think it ends there. Here's the good news:
(1) The state legislature -- even though narrowly controlled by R's -- just passed a law repealing the 1864 law, because they're scared out of their minds that the supreme court just cost them their jobs this November. The (now) progressive governor will be signing it if she hasn't already.
(2) A statewide ballot initiative is nearly certain to be approved by voters in November, which will enshrine reproductive rights in the AZ state constitution. A fairly strong majority of the public in AZ does not hate women at all!

My premed kid is applying this coming cycle, and they'd very much like to wind up at Mayo-AZ because of its connection with Barrow Brain & Spine and other top clinical institutions. Mayo may not have a campus, and I think the suits requirement is odd (although, I guess, welcome to life in the profession), but there are amazing things to do for fun in Phoenix and it's only a half-day drive to SoCal.

It seems, although I could be mistaken, that committing to Kaiser means also committing to their health system in terms of clinical and residency opportunities, which in my mind is pretty limiting (although there are probably ample opportunities within that realm, if you've bought in).

I can't speak to WashU, but it would be more of a culture change for you than either of the western schools for sure. That's probably what keeps their applicant numbers below most of the T10s; I, too, have heard St. Louis is underrated.

Good luck with your decision!

Amazing thank you for the input!!!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

It's pretty clear that Kaiser is leveraging the fact you have a support system nearby and thus benefit from knowledge of the community and the state. You are likely one of the last to receive the tuition-free gift unless the KP endowment is performing superbly and this is extended a few more years (Einstein and NYU effect). Do yourself and your family a favor: stay close to home and remain debt-neutral as you become a doctor. You never know over the next 4 years if something happens and you need to be close to home.

 

[dreamingofmed]

Kaiser fs

 

[jvquarterback]

Maybe too late. I'd take Kaiser. 500k is a couple years compensation post taxes before interest. Is the prestige worth 2-3 years of your life?

I went to WashU, practiced in AZ, and now in CA. I don't know why WashU doesn't match better in CA. 20% of the class was from there. If you go there start networking for residency spots at places that aren't necessarily Stanford, UCSF, and UCLA. There was certainly no one there helping me set up away rotations for competitive specialties.

I loved St Louis, but wasn't expecting to be there 9 years.