Job adds that make me go...Ughhh

[Ollie123]

Eh, I have an acquaintance from grad school who has a TT job at a very small (~2,300 students across two separate campuses) state university in the northeast who makes just under ~$50k.

The only places I know of paying THAT far below the median these days are SLACs or small state schools.

My point was that from a sheer numbers perspective, there aren't <enough> faculty positions at those types of schools to drag the mean/median salary around much.

But yeah, some of these numbers are atrocious. I think I'm pretty good at what I do, but my starting salary should not be double or triple what some people are getting paid when I am 2-3 years out of post-doc. Or perhaps I should say...people should not be making 1/2 to 1/3 what I do.

35k is quite a bit less than I pay my bachelor's level technician and well below the minimum for an NIH post-doc. Why anyone would take that job is beyond me. Just string together post-docs until you are able to find something better.

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[PsyDr]

Not bad for someone with Masters degree

So you advocate for that pay rate for physicians who graduated with an MBBS?

Kinda weird.

 

[Sanman]

So you advocate for that pay rate for physicians who graduated with an MBBS?

Kinda weird.

Well an MBBS is technically a Bachelors degree...so?

 

[Ollie123]

Time to bang my usual drum here...read up on value-based care folks. If you genuinely believe that what we do has more relative value than we have traditionally received in compensation...this is the opportunity of a lifetime and it is coming whether we think it is ultimately a good idea or not. This is especially important for health psychologists, those of you working with medically complex folks or those in hospital systems. Could give us a seat at the table in the broader medical field that has historically been off-limits. Not to mention that I think psychologists are <ideally> suited for admin roles in that area given we have vastly more training in research, statistics and measurement than most of our clinical counterparts.

My last quick search revealed a grand total of 1 article in my area and it was peripheral at best. I'm piecing one together right now because I think people need to start paying attention. Our patients are expensive as hell for the healthcare system and it isn't because of us. I don't think that is something we should ignore.

 

[futureapppsy2]

My point was that from a sheer numbers perspective, there aren't <enough> faculty positions at those types of schools to drag the mean/median salary around much.

But yeah, some of these numbers are atrocious. I think I'm pretty good at what I do, but my starting salary should not be double or triple what some people are getting paid when I am 2-3 years out of post-doc. Or perhaps I should say...people should not be making 1/2 to 1/3 what I do.

35k is quite a bit less than I pay my bachelor's level technician and well below the minimum for an NIH post-doc. Why anyone would take that job is beyond me. Just string together post-docs until you are able to find something better.

Eh, I'm TT faculty at an R1, and we started at just a tisch below $70k. Of course, there other benefits (extra salary if we teach during summer, yearly travel funds, start-up funds), but it's average for what I've seen for TT jobs. Ancedotally, my R2/verge-of-being-an-R1 PhD institution starts people just over $60k for a 9-month salary, and my mentor there who's a full professor with almost 30 years of service to the university barely clears $100k for his 9-month contract.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

I imagine academics may be dragging the median down. I can't imagine working for that salary unless it was part-time.

Unsure if academics are bringing down the median salary. The professors at my school make around $88-160k.

 

[BorderlineQueen]

Not bad for someone with Masters degree

NP/PA also have masters degrees some of them are making 85-200k per year. CRNAs with DNPS make even more somewhere in the $200-240k area.

 

[WisNeuro]

Unsure if academics are bringing down the median salary. The professors at my school make around $88-160k.

Depends on the college/university and area. I can shown you many job listings sub 70k.

 

[Ollie123]

Eh, I'm TT faculty at an R1, and we started at just a tisch below $70k. Of course, there other benefits (extra salary if we teach during summer, yearly travel funds, start-up funds), but it's average for what I've seen for TT jobs. Ancedotally, my R2/verge-of-being-an-R1 PhD institution starts people just over $60k for a 9-month salary, and my mentor there who's a full professor with almost 30 years of service to the university barely clears $100k for his 9-month contract.

I thought you weren't in clinical psychology though? Different fields certainly have vastly different pay scales (ask your I/O psych colleagues why most of them try to get into business schools...). 70k would be lower end for an R1 psych dept - I would say 80-90 is more what I'm seeing these days. Plus its a 9/10 month appt and at R1s it seems like there is an expectation most people will be able to pull in other money for summer salary (teaching/grants, clinical side gigs, consulting). Which is right around the median for <all> psychologists.

Again though folks....numbers. Academics are a minority of clinical psychologists. If it is affecting the numbers, it probably isn't having a huge effect (plus we're focusing on median salary anyways?). We have ~120 psychologists and our <minimum> is just a touch under 90k (though AMC so that is 12 month). It scales from there to 200+ for the folks who move into admin. We have another major university right up the road that pays only a bit less.

I believe we have < 100 colleges in the state, so that balances out a heckuva lot of SLACs with maybe 1-2 clinical psychologists on faculty. Certainly some faculty are paid poorly, but I can point to a boatload of folks in clinical positions earning below the median too and they make up the majority of clinical psychology gigs. We're not discussing whether or not there are faculty earning below the median. Unquestionably there are and we've heard of some on this thread. We're discussing whether there are enough faculty earning below the median to substantially drive down the overall salary statistics for a profession where faculty positions represent a minority of the total positions and a very sizable (and I would guess roughly equivalent number) of positions are earning well above the median.

 

[cara susanna]

I applied for an academic job that paid 40k. Of course, it fit into the "small state school" category.

 

[Seven_Costanza]

I applied for an academic job that paid 40k. Of course, it fit into the "small state school" category.

In contrast, salaries for full-time faculty at community colleges in my current city range from $100k-150k.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I thought you weren't in clinical psychology though? Different fields certainly have vastly different pay scales (ask your I/O psych colleagues why most of them try to get into business schools...). 70k would be lower end for an R1 psych dept - I would say 80-90 is more what I'm seeing these days. Plus its a 9/10 month appt and at R1s it seems like there is an expectation most people will be able to pull in other money for summer salary (teaching/grants, clinical side gigs, consulting). Which is right around the median for <all> psychologists.

Again though folks....numbers. Academics are a minority of clinical psychologists. If it is affecting the numbers, it probably isn't having a huge effect (plus we're focusing on median salary anyways?). We have ~120 psychologists and our <minimum> is just a touch under 90k (though AMC so that is 12 month). It scales from there to 200+ for the folks who move into admin. We have another major university right up the road that pays only a bit less.

I believe we have < 100 colleges in the state, so that balances out a heckuva lot of SLACs with maybe 1-2 clinical psychologists on faculty. Certainly some faculty are paid poorly, but I can point to a boatload of folks in clinical positions earning below the median too and they make up the majority of clinical psychology gigs. We're not discussing whether or not there are faculty earning below the median. Unquestionably there are and we've heard of some on this thread. We're discussing whether there are enough faculty earning below the median to substantially drive down the overall salary statistics for a profession where faculty positions represent a minority of the total positions and a very sizable (and I would guess roughly equivalent number) of positions are earning well above the median.

Those numbers I posted are commensurate for clinical psych faculty at the same institutions (and I'm currently in a psych department, actually, and in all but one position have been in psych departments), and from talking to colleagues in clinical programs at similar R1s, around $70k for a 9-month contract as first-year TT is very common, outside of very high COL living areas. I will say these are lower COL areas, so that may impact the numbers a bit.