Is an MD the way to go for money? prestige?

[deleted936268]

Hello everyone

I wanted to ask the more experienced lot of students here (especially people with a non-trad background to medicine where you considered other professions like finance, IB, quant analysis, law, etc) - is an MD the right path to chasing the bag? And another related question, is it the right path to prestige? I'm seeing a lot of former CS/finance people that dabbled with those fields before deciding to pursue an MD and wanted to understand what gives.

I guess another way to ask the question - for students that go to T20 MD programs - where their passion likely extends beyond just "helping other people" on a small scale (since that can be done with the resources of any MD backing you), why do medicine (aside from research/public health since I understand that).

Sorry for the long, loaded (and possibly shallow) post, just really interested in what more experienced students think.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[FalconSlice]

Hello everyone

I wanted to ask the more experienced lot of students here (especially people with a non-trad background to medicine where you considered other professions like finance, IB, quant analysis, law, etc) - is an MD the right path to chasing the bag? And another related question, is it the right path to prestige? I'm seeing a lot of former CS/finance people that dabbled with those fields before deciding to pursue an MD and wanted to understand what gives.

I guess another way to ask the question - for students that go to T20 MD programs - where their passion likely extends beyond just "helping other people" on a small scale (since that can be done with the resources of any MD backing you), why do medicine (aside from research/public health since I understand that).

Sorry for the long, loaded (and possibly shallow) post, just really interested in what more experienced students think.

No to both money and prestige.

 

[deleted1081396]

Prestige is the absolute dumbest thing one can pursue in life. About as dumb as caring about your high school popularity. Forget about it. Money though... Yes it's a good path to financial security and independence but it's a very long path.

 

[DoctorOrdinary]

right now the bag is chasing me because medical school is expensive

 

[shouldvestudied]

Becoming a physician remains the most guaranteed way to join the lower upper class in the US.

That said, maybe you don't need to make $250k/year to live a happy, fulfilled life? Maybe the sacrifices involved with becoming and being a doctor are not sacrifices that you're willing to make. Maybe you would be happier making $100k-$150k as a non-FAANG SWE or $60k as a LCSW?

 

[Ichigo]

I’m not a doctor by any means but my parents are. From their experience, it’s a huge time commitment and a long road, if your not interested in the field of medicine and you decide to pursue it for the money, your going to be miserable…Your better off going into CS or finance if your just searching for a high paying career. You can make a great living in those fields by just getting a bachelors

 

[Kardio]

Yes and yes. That being said, people who chase prestige (i.e., it is the biggest factor in their decision making) are often miserable.

 

[7331poas]

Nah, software engineering is a way better path. You dont have to waste your life in medical school or residency. People underestimate how much time you waste doing this.

 

[Means]

Adding to what other have said, MD will bring you money and prestige, but that obviously comes with a time-extensive and expensive cost. On the other hand, a family member of mine started making 120k when he graduated at 21 as a FAANG SWE and is now at around 170k just a few years later. He never had any school debt and has never worked more than 40 hours a week. Medicine is definitely not the only way to chase the bag.

 

[eteshoe]

I will say, how miserable one is chasing prestige or whatnot, really is dependent on their pain threshold lol

 

[Lawpy]

I will never understand SDN's obsession with prestige even despite people saying prestige doesn't matter nor should be a factor

 

[deleted1081396]

I will never understand SDN's obsession with prestige even despite people saying prestige doesn't matter nor should be a factor

They think their names will still be remembered in 200 years because they worked at MGH or whatever.

They won't.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Medicine is one of the routes that require less creativity to attain money or prestige. If you finish a residency you’ll most likely make enough money for luxury spending and have more respect than the average joe. You don’t have to be the most “successful” physician, just a board certified one (with few exceptions). In most other professions, the average person won’t make a lot of money or have a lot of respect, only the most successful among the them.

If you want true prestige you’ll have to do academic medicine where you’ll spend your entire youth chasing the next rank in hopes of one day reaching a fancy position that has a lot of people bowing to.

Otherwise, medical education works really hard to beat pride and sometimes basic dignity out of trainees that by the time you’re an attending you’re numb to any prestige that an outsider would think you have. Those who try to be fancy or have an ego stand out in a bad way (outside of academic physicians with fancy titles).

 

[ACSurgeon]

I will never understand SDN's obsession with prestige even despite people saying prestige doesn't matter nor should be a factor

institutional prestige can open doors during training and I’ve known people to ride that to the end and then join a private practice group and become a normal physician at the end. Chasing prestige after you’re done training is less meaningful but still opens doors to certain positions for those with high career aspirations.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Adding to what other have said, MD will bring you money and prestige, but that obviously comes with a time-extensive and expensive cost. On the other hand, a family member of mine started making 120k when he graduated at 21 as a FAANG SWE and is now at around 170k just a few years later. He never had any school debt and has never worked more than 40 hours a week. Medicine is definitely not the only way to chase the bag.

I don’t know about the SWE market, but those are less secure or “guaranteed” than medicine and at higher risk of earning high incomes until you find yourself unemployed. Or, two people finishing with the same undergrad degree and one starts at 120k and one can’t find a job. Nonetheless, you’re point is well taken that plenty of people have satisfying careers outside of medicine and make good money at a younger age and sometimes for their entire working life without the hardships of becoming a physician. So, ideally a person should have an interest in the subject matter or other good reasons for going down the medical education path outside of chasing money and prestige.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Moving to premed

 

[Piskaupf]

Prestige amongst your moms facebook friends lol

 

[Goro]

I will never understand SDN's obsession with prestige even despite people saying prestige doesn't matter nor should be a factor

Hint: Tiger parents

 

[Maximus2020]

The answer is getting doctorate - whether it be MD or DO - you have thereby risen above the crowd. The real question is what you do once you graduate. Most people on here will undoubtedly be biased toward an MD or DO meaning just that - you are a medical doctor, meaning hospital, average pay, grind, etc.

However, even if you choose to do PGYs, you can use the MD/DO to catapult yourself into a high earning full time job instead of medicine or a side gig. You can also work for a few years, do the grind, make some guaranteed cash, and then use that to finance another gig. Insurance companies, venture capital, real estate, pharma, etc. It is leveraging your resume/education against other people who don't have that.

Prestige means something at the training level (med school, PGYs). Once an attending, it means squat. Working at a top 10 hospital means lower pay, more hours, higher expectations. You only live once - don't choose that life.

 

[DoctorFate]

The answer is getting doctorate - whether it be MD or DO - you have thereby risen above the crowd. The real question is what you do once you graduate. Most people on here will undoubtedly be biased toward an MD or DO meaning just that - you are a medical doctor, meaning hospital, average pay, grind, etc.

However, even if you choose to do PGYs, you can use the MD/DO to catapult yourself into a high earning full time job instead of medicine or a side gig. You can also work for a few years, do the grind, make some guaranteed cash, and then use that to finance another gig. Insurance companies, venture capital, real estate, pharma, etc. It is leveraging your resume/education against other people who don't have that.

Prestige means something at the training level (med school, PGYs). Once an attending, it means squat. Working at a top 10 hospital means lower pay, more hours, higher expectations. You only live once - don't choose that life.

Oh, is that true?? I would have thought that top hospitals pay the most, as they look for the best candidates.

 

[Moko]

Oh, is that true?? I would have thought that top hospitals pay the most, as they look for the best candidates.

It's the opposite. Top hospitals can pay less as there are plenty of physicians willing to take a pay cut to boost their CV.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Becoming a physician remains the most guaranteed way to join the lower upper class in the US.

That said, maybe you don't need to make $250k/year to live a happy, fulfilled life? Maybe the sacrifices involved with becoming and being a doctor are not sacrifices that you're willing to make. Maybe you would be happier making $100k-$150k as a non-FAANG SWE or $60k as a LCSW?

250k is not lower upper class. Its very definitively upper clsss

 

[Styrene]

Pursuing the field for those things alone, no, horrible idea.

But money and prestige are major rewards. The prestige idea especially is explained from a sociologic perspective: Prestigious careers are so because prestige is a social currency reward that fosters competition, and competition allows selection of the most capable, particularly important when life is on the line.

So where intrinsic motivation exists, the aforementioned are important extrinsic motivators but ought not to be the only focus.

 

[shouldvestudied]

250k is not lower upper class. Its very definitively upper clsss

You are correct. I tend to add the "lower" part so I don't end up having to listen to people argue that "$250k is actually middle class".

 

[DoctorFate]

You are correct. I tend to add the "lower" part so I don't end up having to listen to people argue that "$250k is actually middle class".

haha, I used to live in a neighborhood that was in America's 25 richest counties. I don't know a single household here that makes below 250k. The average home is worth about 600-800k. My friends all argue with me that we are middle class, maybe upper middle class at best.

I was like bruh, at minimum we make 4x middle class. Some of you guys make 10x or more. What kinda middle class income is this lol.

 

[DoctorFate]

It's the opposite. Top hospitals can pay less as there are plenty of physicians willing to take a pay cut to boost their CV.

Damn, that's unfortunate. A lot of my friends are in tech, and there the highest rep companies also tend to pay more.

 

[Goro]

Making bank is the baseline. But if it's the only thing motivating you, you're going to be miserable, especially because it's a ten year+ exercise on delayed gratification.

 

[dienekes88]

Hello everyone

I wanted to ask the more experienced lot of students here (especially people with a non-trad background to medicine where you considered other professions like finance, IB, quant analysis, law, etc) - is an MD the right path to chasing the bag? And another related question, is it the right path to prestige? I'm seeing a lot of former CS/finance people that dabbled with those fields before deciding to pursue an MD and wanted to understand what gives.

I guess another way to ask the question - for students that go to T20 MD programs - where their passion likely extends beyond just "helping other people" on a small scale (since that can be done with the resources of any MD backing you), why do medicine (aside from research/public health since I understand that).

Sorry for the long, loaded (and possibly shallow) post, just really interested in what more experienced students think.

MD is a good way to live comfortably. If you work hard and make good decisions, you can be gainfully employed and do meaningful work.

It is not a good way to live luxuriously.

Life is about more than getting "the bag." Above a certain wage/salary, there's substantial diminishing returns on increasing salary. If I won the lotto, I'd probably still show up to work.

 

[LizzyM]

Why be a doctor?

If not for money or prestige, maybe because it is the only profession that permits you to cut people open and fiddle with their insides. 😉

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

Why be a doctor?

If not for money or prestige, maybe because it is the only profession that permits you to cut people open and fiddle with their insides. 😉

Morticians too? You never specified that the patient has to be alive!

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Most undergrads from Ivy League schools who start as premed go into banking. They usually make 100k base + 80-100k bonus. This grows exponentially and can easily reach 500k by the time they’re 30. There is a lot more upside in finance/consulting/law than medical salaries. However, the attrition rate is horrible in these fields and less than 10% of those who start will actually make it. Out of 8 people from my freshman floor who went on to work at Goldman/MS/JPM, only 2 are still in finance and only 1 is in banking.

Tldr: medicine isn’t the best if you’re just looking for a high salary, but it’s probably much better in terms of most other jobs in terms of satisfaction

 

[DoctorFate]

Most undergrads from Ivy League schools who start as premed go into banking. They usually make 100k base + 80-100k bonus. This grows exponentially and can easily reach 500k by the time they’re 30. There is a lot more upside in finance/consulting/law than medical salaries. However, the attrition rate is horrible in these fields and less than 10% of those who start will actually make it. Out of 8 people from my freshman floor who went on to work at Goldman/MS/JPM, only 2 are still in finance and only 1 is in banking.

Tldr: medicine isn’t the best if you’re just looking for a high salary, but it’s probably much better in terms of most other jobs in terms of satisfaction

the high end of tech, from what I've seen, seems to have the best combination of salary + lifestyle. Some medical fields can match it, like derm, but they're much harder to get and take longer and are more expensive.

you're in finance rn, right? how's it been?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

the high end of tech, from what I've seen, seems to have the best combination of salary + lifestyle. Some medical fields can match it, like derm, but they're much harder to get and take longer and are more expensive.

you're in finance rn, right? how's it been?

Not banking but ya. It’s fun I’ve been investing since I started working in hs so I like it. Couldn’t imagine doing it for 40+ years as a job

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Director of nursing makes 500k at my Wife's hospital. A large community hospital in a rural county, that has good subspecialty coverage including open heart and electrophysiology. No neurosurgery. I would believe that to be in excess of most doctors on staff. Administrators make big bucks.

 

[DoctorFate]

Director of nursing makes 500k at my Wife's hospital. A large community hospital in a rural county, that has good subspecialty coverage including open heart and electrophysiology. No neurosurgery. I would believe that to be in excess of most doctors on staff. Administrators make big bucks.

MD/MBA or just MD?

 

[Proudfather94]

Director of nursing makes 500k at my Wife's hospital. A large community hospital in a rural county, that has good subspecialty coverage including open heart and electrophysiology. No neurosurgery. I would believe that to be in excess of most doctors on staff. Administrators make big bucks.

That takes a lot of skill to get that one position though. A lot of people pleasing and long hours I would assume. I'm sure they know they're hated by most of the faculty that work under them.

 

[LizzyM]

Morticians too? You never specified that the patient has to be alive!

Corpses are not people. I said people.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

That takes a lot of skill to get that one position though. A lot of people pleasing and long hours I would assume. I'm sure they know they're hated by most of the faculty that work under them.

I agree with you, but would not have explained it as politely as you did. I have quite a bit of disdain for administrators in both the corporate and Govt Healthcare models. I'm sure the people pleasing you mention requires a cockroach level of survivor instincts. How does that RN bring value to the system? They certainly don't bring in revenue. All they can do is cut, consolidate, and ensure compliance with govt regs. But, I can rend my garments over their compensation, but ultimately the market will set the value for their work, as it does mine.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

MD/MBA or just MD?

My wife? An MD overpriced specialist.Ranked like top 5 in salary by medscape for physician compensation. The RN makes more than her. As I said, the market will determine what our labor is worth. I don't understand where the value is, but the market doesn't require my understanding.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

You have to keep in mind that most of the 400+ salaries in this thread are taxed at an effective rate of over 50% in some states, which is much more than people in say private equity pay due to the carried interest loophole.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I agree with you, but would not have explained it as politely as you did. I have quite a bit of disdain for administrators in both the corporate and Govt Healthcare models. I'm sure the people pleasing you mention requires a cockroach level of survivor instincts. How does that RN bring value to the system? They certainly don't bring in revenue. All they can do is cut, consolidate, and ensure compliance with govt regs. But, I can rend my garments over their compensation, but ultimately the market will set the value for their work, as it does mine.

I think that it could be quite important. Nurses generally have labor power on their side whereas doctors don’t. If recent strikes in other sectors spill over, it may be valuable to have a nurse for negotiation with the nursing union.

 

[Proudfather94]

My wife? An MD overpriced specialist.Ranked like top 5 in salary by medscape for physician compensation. The RN makes more than her. As I said, the market will determine what our labor is worth. I don't understand where the value is, but the market doesn't require my understanding.

Unfortunately the market pays the bare minimum of what people are willing to take to staff that position. I think those top admin jobs are the carrot to get people to try to climb the administrative ladder. "Spend a few decades doing a lot of boring, low paying, monotonous work and you may get this job in the future!" Most don't make it.

If physicians took a note from the NP and PA unions and started putting public pressure to be paid more for their work, than I think it could happen. Americans may not trust doctors but they absolutely loathe do nothings in admin/corporate positions. Taking money from those that do nothing and giving them to the doctors who save lives would strike a chord in alot of people.

 

[Med Ed]

You have to keep in mind that most of the 400+ salaries in this thread are taxed at an effective rate of over 50% in some states,

I would like to hear more about this.

 

[deleted1025488]

You have to keep in mind that most of the 400+ salaries in this thread are taxed at an effective rate of over 50% in some states, which is much more than people in say private equity pay due to the carried interest loophole.

It's still marginal, even in CA you're still waking away with ~240k with a 400k salary, it's not like half just evaporates.

 

[DoctorFate]

My wife? An MD overpriced specialist.Ranked like top 5 in salary by medscape for physician compensation. The RN makes more than her. As I said, the market will determine what our labor is worth. I don't understand where the value is, but the market doesn't require my understanding.

Wait, what? She's in the top 5 of physician compensation, but a registered nurse makes more than her??

 

[deleted1081396]

Oh, is that true?? I would have thought that top hospitals pay the most, as they look for the best candidates.

Nope. One of my 3rd year IM preceptors was from NYC. He said it's common for hospitalists to start as low as $180K there because they can instantly be replaced. He lives in NYC but works here in the Midwest because here he makes $315K.

 

[deleted1025488]

Oh, is that true?? I would have thought that top hospitals pay the most, as they look for the best candidates.

It doesn't matter at all which is why people try to calm the neuroticism by the good old 'a doctor is a doctor no matter where from.'

I'm also pretty sure rural doctors make the most by far. Obviously rural isn't for everyone, but the trend still exists for lower populated vs urban areas; someone mentioned midwest vs northeast $ differences which I have also observed. NYC and Boston pay less than most other places despite having the best teaching hospitals, and most prestigious hospitals.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Wait, what? She's in the top 5 of physician compensation, but a registered nurse makes more than her??

Yes. As the Director of Nursing. I looked it up. She makes like $460k.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

It's still marginal, even in CA you're still waking away with ~240k with a 400k salary, it's not like half just evaporates.

I think even in CA the effective tax rate would be like 25 to 30%. Income tax is graded on a scale of increasing income.

 

[RubenDad]

Morticians too? You never specified that the patient has to be alive!

It could be argued that one supplies the other