Insider trading at the NRMP?

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H&P-Stat

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I heard an interesting rumor....

People have been saying that the computer only takes around fifteen minutes to run the entire match algorithm. The results aren't released until March 17th, though, because they re-run it several times to make sure the results are the same each time.

However, today someone told me that Program Directors receive the results almost immediately, but then do some wheeling and dealing amongst each other before the official results are released... like in the NFL draft. Is my contract being traded right now for a hot prospect MS-3, $50 in cash, and an FMG to be named later?

Anyone heard this before or is it just an urban legend?
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absolutely urban legend.
though I don't know the particulars of how long it takes to run the match (it can't be THAT fast...there are over 10,000 positions being bid for), program directors are under the same time line all the applicants are.

on that fateful monday, much like all students will be finding out, the programs will know whether or not they are full...the scramble starts at the same time for all.

there is no wheeling and dealing for positions obtained thru the match.....too bad, cuz i could've used a few more bucks. ;)

good luck.
 
H&P,

You realize that you are only tormenting all of us already freaking out in this process!!! :)

I also heard that the actual "match" is done rather quickly. Although i don't know about the 15 mins, my guess is that everything is already computed and our destinies are already determined.

HOWEVER, I am 99.44% positive that NONE OF THIS is released to ANYONE prior to March 17th [confirmed by a couple of (trustworthy) PDs]. That's the reason unfilled programs are as desperate as unmatched candidates on Black Monday (T minus 10d and counting.....)
 
Not to freak anyone out, but someone who graduated from my school a while ago found out about some "wheeling and dealing" between program directors that had a huge influence on where she ended up matching. This definitely could have taken place before the match, which was the SF match, by the way. The point is, I wouldn't put it past people who find it necessary to pay people barely living wages (considering hours worked) to engage in other types of unethical activities.
 
I head a different rumor. I stress the word rumor.

Two upper level residents at a University Program were telling me that the "real" way the match works is as follows:

(Both programs have 10 spots, for simplicity.)

Applicant JOHN ranks STATE #4 and MUNICIPAL #1.

STATE ranks JOHN very high, #1 on its list.

MUNICIPAL ranks JOHN lower, let's say #10, but he is still "ranked to match" because there are 10 spots.

However, in this rumor, the program's preference takes precedence, so JOHN goes to STATE over MUNICIPAL, even though he should have matched at his #1 choice.

This is the reason (so the rumor goes) that Deans and Advisors tell MS4's not to rank any program they ABSOLUTELY would not be happy with. It can really bite you in the arse.

Again, just a rumor to make you more nervous at match day approaches.
 
I had heard that that was how the match *used to* work, but that the NRMP changed the algorithm to take students preferences more seriously. Anyone heard similarly?

MIndy
 
I also heard that the NRMP used to work that way. But that have changed it and I believe did so long long ago.

Now it is designed to favor the applicant and set up such that applicants do not have to play any games and can just rank programs as they wish without worrying about where programs ranked them.

The reason they tell you not to rank a program you would not go to is that if you rank it you could end up there (if and only if you do not match to programs you ranked higher) and are then contractually bound to go there.
 
that's how the match used to work. it was changed several years ago when the situation described was discovered. the applicant's list has priority over the program list. a prospective match is formed and then the match is double checked to make sure that neither the applicant nor the program are getting a less preferred match than possible.

if you read through their examples, they cover this situation. unless you are proposing that they are liars.
 
i heard the same thing mindy. the math is beyond my grasp, but here's the deal

as far as i understand, that is a major difference b/w the (current) applicant proposing system and the (previous) program proposing system. according to the explanations that i've seen, the applicant proposing system is supposed to end up w/ the applicants getting their highest choices possible, while the programs are more likely to fill (but not necessarily w/ their highest choices).

also, the SFMatch (at least for neurology) now uses the applicant proposing system, just like the NRMP

though many of y'all have probably seen this, below is a link to the best explanation that i've found:
http://www.scutwork.com/cgi-bin/links/page.cgi?page=Algorithm&d=1
 
Here's one reason why it takes so long: Although I made my rank list a month before the deadline, and certified it....I changed my rank list at the last minute, and, somehow, did not properly re-certify it, so I got an email days later saying my ROL was not certified - PANNIIICC!!!! But, all was okay after I sent them an email allowing the to certify the existing list for me - no changes could be made of course, but thank the good lord I was not out of the match because of one silly stupid mistake.

It's my hunch that I'm not the only dummy who made a mistake like this and I thank my lucky stars that the NRMP is nice enough to take a few days to sort these things out and avoid the dissappointement that could have occurred because of this. Maybe that's one of the reasons it takes so long to run the match.
 
In Ken Iserson's book, "Getting Into A Residency", he said that the entire match program runs in about 6 minutes. Think that's fast? Think of your run of the mill, 2GHz Pentium 4....in 6 minutes, that's 720 million calculations. Considering the number of applicants, some stats-head here can figure a rough amount of calculations needed for 25000, ranking (on average) 7.5 programs - each calculation being simple yes or no (is this person higher on the list than who's already there?). If they are using dual Xeons or a VAX or UNIX or Cray (which I doubt, because the exorbitant fees don't go to technology, I suspect), they can really kick it out.

Like giving TPA, I think the actual administration of the match program is kind of a letdown.
 
Originally posted by Apollyon
Think of your run of the mill, 2GHz Pentium 4....in 6 minutes, that's 720 million calculations. Considering the number of applicants, some stats-head here can figure a rough amount of calculations needed for 25000, ranking (on average) 7.5 programs - each calculation being simple yes or no (is this person higher on the list than who's already there?). If they are using dual Xeons or a VAX or UNIX or Cray (which I doubt, because the exorbitant fees don't go to technology, I suspect), they can really kick it out.
Click to expand...

Gee... thanks for clearing that up for us. Now I'm totally confused.:confused:
 
Like giving TPA, I think the actual administration of the match program is kind of a letdown.
Click to expand...
excellent obs Apollyon

and it's nice to know that NRMP is willing and able to to correct mistakes or last minute changes. glad it worked out for you fourthyear

also, a student affairs officer at my school spent the few days around the deadline figuring out why so many ppl at my school hadn't entered or certified their lists yet (by contacting them personally).

but really, could it take that long to do all of this? for the huge number of us that might or might not be moving ~1000 miles away (if not more), it'd sure be nice and helpful to know by now (so we can find places to live).
 
Originally posted by Apollyon
32000 applicants for 25000 spots, ~4000 programs
Click to expand...

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me that the 32000 represents people asking for more than one spot!
 
Thanks for the link.

I checked out some numbers, and they aren't as bad as I thought. From the tables, in 2002 there were 23459 "active" applicants, including US physicians. There were 20,602 pgy-1 spots. Not nearly as bad as 32/25!
 
Here's a rumor I heard about how the match is really performed....and I must preface...its just a rumor.

I heard that the match results are actually determined by three highly intelligent monkeys, who bang their heads incessantly on keyboards thus matching program to applicant. Now, as you can imagine, this process is bound to make mistakes, often the monkeys match program to program and applicant to applicant.. i.e. City being match to State. So its necessary for the program to last a number of weeks until correct matchs are generated. Its only by coincidence that one matchs at a program that one interviewed at. Now this all seems random, but as I said...its just a rumor.

good luck everyone...and lets all try not to stress too much.
 
mountebank - now that is just plain stupid!!!! where did you hear such a crazy-assed rumor??

how it really works is....
all the applicants names are written on a separate small piece of paper.

all the programs have the same thing done

they are put into a big vat of water and stirred. whenever a suitable applicant's name and program are matched, then the names are pulled out of the water until all matches are done!!

mine is not a rumor...i got it from thr nrmp website...
.nrmp.com/halfmindedsection/matchalgorithm.htm
 
I heard that NRMP has started notifying people about their match status. Someone just forwarded this e-mail to me. Anyone else get it? :(

--- NRMP <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Applicant:

We regret to inform you that based on the preliminary results of the National Residency Match Program, you are not expected to match for a PGY 1 position in <deleted> beginning July 1, 2003. Though the official results will not be released until 12:00 pm EST on Monday, March 17, 2003, we recommend that you begin compiling the documents necessary to apply for an unfilled program.

A List of Unfilled Programs will be posted on the NRMP website on 12:00 pm EST on Tuesday, March 18, 2003. At that time, you will be allowed to contact unfilled programs directly.

Please call the NRMP Help Desk at 202-828-XXXX if you have further questions.

Good Luck.

---
 
results already!!!!!

that is quicker than last year, they must have gotten smarter monkeys.....but its just a rumor.
 
edfig99 wrote:

on that fateful monday, much like all students will be finding out

Beg to differ. What some call "Black Monday", others (i.e. IMGs) call "Black Tuesday". IMGs get the results of the Match a day later to give the unfortunate American grad (very small percentage) a head start on the Scramble. Otherwise s/he might be competing in the same pool as the unmatched IMG.

Here's wishing all "contendas" the best of luck on Match Day. :)

Nu
 
That is not true.

The only difference is that US grads get their results March 20th at noon in a match ceremony, IMGs get them one hour later on the nrmp web site. As for unmatched info, everyone gets that on the 17th, ie, "Black Monday" is an international event :) 6 days left, BTW... :eek:
 
Originally posted by H&P-Stat
I heard that NRMP has started notifying people about their match status. Someone just forwarded this e-mail to me. Anyone else get it? :(

--- NRMP <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Applicant:

We regret to inform you that based on the preliminary results of the National Residency Match Program, you are not expected to match for a PGY 1 position in <deleted> beginning July 1, 2003. Though the official results will not be released until 12:00 pm EST on Monday, March 17, 2003, we recommend that you begin compiling the documents necessary to apply for an unfilled program.

A List of Unfilled Programs will be posted on the NRMP website on 12:00 pm EST on Tuesday, March 18, 2003. At that time, you will be allowed to contact unfilled programs directly.

Please call the NRMP Help Desk at 202-828-XXXX if you have further questions.

Good Luck.

---
Click to expand...

this is an absolute hoax. e-mail is so easy to spoof...this should be taken as a cruel practical joke on someone.

Having had friends in med school who went unmatched, I can tell you that NRMP does not convey any result prior to Monday the 17th, noon, and first contact will be on the web, not email.
 
Abu Barney writes:

The only difference is that US grads get their results March 20th at noon in a match ceremony, IMGs get them one hour later on the nrmp web site. As for unmatched info, everyone gets that on the 17th, ie, "Black Monday" is an international event

If this is so, things have changed in the course of the last several years. No harm, no foul.
 
MONDAY, MARCH 17, 2003 - NOON Eastern Standard Time (EST)

1. Applicants find out "Did I Match?" - posted to the web and a message sent via e-mail to this address. The message is displayed automatically when you log on. It will be worded so the applicant knows whether they need to scramble and, if so, for which type of position.
2. Regional Match Statistics by Specialty - posted to the web

i'm sure others got the same

<150 hours to go:clap:
 
Originally posted by edfig99
this is an absolute hoax. e-mail is so easy to spoof...this should be taken as a cruel practical joke on someone.
Click to expand...

Pfffftttt!!!

Of course that post was a joke!!! Dude, did anyone fall for that?!?

Relax everyone... we're all gonna land a spot, match or scramble. Someone get edfig99 a drink!

P.S.
Dr. Cuts, I read your reply to my post before you deleted it!!! Sucka!!! :laugh:
 
Originally posted by H&P-Stat
Pfffftttt!!!

Of course that post was a joke!!! Dude, did anyone fall for that?!?

Relax everyone... we're all gonna land a spot, match or scramble. Someone get edfig99 a drink!
Click to expand...

maybe i had too many drinks...damn this cushy 3rd year ;) H&P-Stat, ya got me. gotta say, your wording was excellent - sounds just like the stuff that would come out of there.

however, none of this matters to me ..i'm done in 3 months... :clap:
 
Originally posted by edfig99
maybe i had too many drinks...damn this cushy 3rd year ;) H&P-Stat, ya got me. gotta say, your wording was excellent - sounds just like the stuff that would come out of there.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the props edfig, I worked hard to simulate an NRMP e-mail telling you, "You're F*cked". But you're not alone. I got a couple of PM's offering me condolences or asking me if that post was a joke. :laugh:

Knowing my luck, now I'm gonna get one of those letters for real on Monday. :eek:

Cheers everyone.... here's to empty e-mailboxes all around on March 17th!!!!
 
Originally posted by H&P-Stat

P.S.
Dr. Cuts, I read your reply to my post before you deleted it!!! Sucka!!! :laugh:
Click to expand...

HAHA! You piece of sh1t! I genuinely felt sorry for you too you focker!

:laugh: :clap:
 
H & P,

Cudos for the joke. It was excellent, and I, the master of all things skeptical, fell for it.

The wording was brilliant. Simply brilliant. (I feel like Paula Abdul on American Idol).

GI Guy
 
Originally posted by H&P-Stat
I heard that NRMP has started notifying people about their match status. Someone just forwarded this e-mail to me. Anyone else get it? :(

--- NRMP <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Applicant:

We regret to inform you that based on the preliminary results of the National Residency Match Program, you are not expected to match for a PGY 1 position in <deleted> beginning July 1, 2003. Though the official results will not be released until 12:00 pm EST on Monday, March 17, 2003, we recommend that you begin compiling the documents necessary to apply for an unfilled program.

A List of Unfilled Programs will be posted on the NRMP website on 12:00 pm EST on Tuesday, March 18, 2003. At that time, you will be allowed to contact unfilled programs directly.

Please call the NRMP Help Desk at 202-828-XXXX if you have further questions.

Good Luck.

---
Click to expand...

First mistake: NRMP stands for National Resident Matching Program, not what you have it in your letter - National Residency Match Program. Second mistake: not all PGY-1 positions start July 1, some are before, some are after. Third (I'll let it slide) mistake: In first paragraph, "Though the official results..." should read "Although the official results..." However, it's not a hard and fast rule.

I can find more, but you get the point - if you're going to play a joke, make it at least SOMEWHAT believable. From my experience, official letterhead and laser printing work well.

Nice try though.
 
There should be a loophole in the match rules that lets you change your rank list
at the last second if you find out a guy like Gas might match with you (not that i'm going into anesthesia, but I'd be worried if I was).

Gas, I'm guessing you didn't have too many LORs that contained the phrases
"great sense of humor" or "pleasure to work with."

-M
 
I dont mind being traded, but i better have been traded for fair market value. Like a first round pick, a bilingual MSIII with some research experience, dinner at sizzler's, some pogs, etc.
 
There was a guy at my school a couple of years ago that received an email like that from one of his classmates as a joke.

Unfortunatley he didn't realize it was a joke and promptly wrote a note and then blew his head off.

Not funny.
 
Originally posted by Gas
First mistake: NRMP stands for National Resident Matching Program, not what you have it in your letter - National Residency Match Program. Second mistake: not all PGY-1 positions start July 1, some are before, some are after. Third (I'll let it slide) mistake: In first paragraph, "Though the official results..." should read "Although the official results..." However, it's not a hard and fast rule.

I can find more, but you get the point - if you're going to play a joke, make it at least SOMEWHAT believable. From my experience, official letterhead and laser printing work well.

Nice try though.
Click to expand...



Ummmm, did someone pass Gas...something or someone stinks...BADDDD...
 
Originally posted by edinOH
There was a guy at my school a couple of years ago that received an email like that from one of his classmates as a joke.

Unfortunatley he didn't realize it was a joke and promptly wrote a note and then blew his head off.

Not funny.
Click to expand...

Jesus!

I had a chief resident who had a classmate that pranked a bunch of people saying they didn't match and he was thrown out of med school.

mike
 
Originally posted by sweetfynesse
Ummmm, did someone pass Gas...something or someone stinks...BADDDD...
Click to expand...

I made a smart ass comment to his post but now it's gone. I wonder if I messed up in posting it. I don't think it was vulgar enough to be censored.
 
I went to our match ceremony and had our dean tell me in front of the whole class that I didn't match, "Didn't you get my voicemail?" I laughed, lit up a cigarrette, and was thinking about whether to join the Navy or Army, before he laughed and told me it was a joke.

Now that was a good prank.
 
Originally posted by Gas
First mistake: NRMP stands for National Resident Matching Program, not what you have it in your letter - National Residency Match Program. Second mistake: not all PGY-1 positions start July 1, some are before, some are after. Third (I'll let it slide) mistake: In first paragraph, "Though the official results..." should read "Although the official results..." However, it's not a hard and fast rule.

I can find more, but you get the point - if you're going to play a joke, make it at least SOMEWHAT believable. From my experience, official letterhead and laser printing work well.

Nice try though.
Click to expand...

Golly Gas, you're so smart! I should be ashamed of myself for trying to slip one past you. Next time I decide to post something amusing for the readers of this forum, I'll make sure it's grammatically correct and worthy of your high intellectual standards.

Smell that? That's sarcasm. Get over yourself, Gas! :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by H&P-Stat
However, today someone told me that Program Directors receive the results almost immediately, but then do some wheeling and dealing amongst each other before the official results are released... like in the NFL draft. Is my contract being traded right now for a hot prospect MS-3, $50 in cash, and an FMG to be named later?
Click to expand...

The program directors find out on Tuesday who has matched with them. That's straight from the mouth of a program director.
 
>>The program directors find out on Tuesday who has matched with them. That's straight from the mouth of a program director.

Any chance they'll let you know? ...on Tuesday...?:p

all this waiting...i'm sure it's not very good for my TMJ

Good luck everyone!!!:D
 
It's Tuesday- Anyone know if the story about PD's getting the list today has panned out? Anyone been contacted?

After all this time we should just kick back and wait.... but these final days seem to be the hardest...


Originally posted by chemjunky
>>The program directors find out on Tuesday who has matched with them. That's straight from the mouth of a program director.

Any chance they'll let you know? ...on Tuesday...?:p

all this waiting...i'm sure it's not very good for my TMJ

Good luck everyone!!!:D
Click to expand...
 
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