Independent Vs Integrated

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woundvac

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is there ANY advantage to completing a general surgery residency prior to plastics, independent model, assuming that you end up doing plastics.

does the extra years improve your marketability, skills, etc. OR is it just a waste of time.

seems like it would hard to learn plastics in 5 years, because of its complexity.

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What makes you think that five years of G-Surg will make you a better plastic surgeon or more marketable?

Ollie and I have had this (friendly) argument before. He'll tell you that you'll get better training by taking the independent route. I'll tell you that as an integrated resident you'll get PRS training from the beginning and you'll focus yourself on the PRS-related disciplines earlier.

I don't think the prior G-Surg training will have any impact at all upon your marketability, unless you want to be a faculty member at Duke, where they advertise themselves as all being double-boarded.

It's a question of time. Do you think the extra years are better for you? I don't, at least, not for me. I'd be miserable doing five years of G-Surg, with the knowledge that I really wanted to be doing plastics. But that's me and not necessarily you. I think that most people who want to do PRS in the last couple of years have favored the integrated model just for its expediency. More G-Surg programs are adding mandatory research time, so I'd hate to get stuck with a 6-7 year G-Surg residency with another 2-3 years of PRS training.
 
okay, i guess the answer is no.
 
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I think the "advantages" of completeing some specialty (usually general surgery) prior to starting training are a few.

1. you're already pretty technically polished @ this point & you more into small refinements then having to learn how to be a surgeon when you do larger cases. This is a big advantage during a very technical specialty training.

2. reconstructive surgery is very much similar to my experience from hundreds and hundreds of trauma, vascular, and various general surgery cases. The transition for these is pretty easy & the perspective with your prior training is invaluable. Also important is the level of discussion that you can have with referring surgeons b/c of common experiences

3. There is a clear difference in your maturity level when you're doing something at the level of a fellow. This is important on so many levels in the way you make decisions and analyze things as well as handling real problems

4. You're pretty much able to handle just about any scenario with patient care, which may or may not be true of the integrated programs


As far as marketability, I don't think there's really much of an advantage to being double boarded these days talking to most of the guys I work with. Most of them would say that patients rarely ever ask their credentials. Some relative disadvatages to doing surgery prior include:

-some experience which clearly will not benefit you much (endoscopy, advanced laparoscopy, some ICU procedures), but these are just a fraction of your time over 5 years

-it can add some length to your training, but usually we're only talking a year here. BTW, many programs have actually DROPPED mandatory research years rather then added due to funding issues. It used to be much more common then now. At many programs its completely optional these days

-you will not be able to train at some programs with integrated only spots

-its physically harder

People who say "I want to do Plastics, but I could never do Surgery" make my eyes roll. This perspective usually makes for pretty mediocre surgeons to me and is pretty short sighted about how similar large parts of the fields are. If your goal is to do exclusively facial aesthetics then you're clearly not better off considering general surgery (or even PRS for that matter) & facial plastics after ENT might be the best route.

The main problem I think the integrated experience has is that you end up trying walk & run at the same time, learning both technique and information. The important parts of surgical training are just hard to compact & the what you end up sacrificing are the experience that's most valuable. Programs where all this synergizes & works well are pretty few I imagine
 
the third year residents at my school are only half as skilled at the cheifs at my school. intern year being primarily floorwork. intuitively, it seemed like a big difference. definitely depends on the person and program i'm sure.

appreciated hearing from both sides.
 
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