Income, benefits, compensation thread

[cyanide12345678]

Employer: CMG
ER setting: Urban
Region: Midwest
Hourly: $210/hr
W2 or 1099 or k1: K1
Patients per hour: 1.5-2.0
Annual census: 38k
Cme: None
Occasional Quarterly Bonus: Approximately $25-35k over the year
Annual bonus: Around $80k
Benefits: None

Vituity? You like them?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[CajunMedic]

Employer: CMG
ER setting: Community/Suburban
Region: Border of Midwest and NE. (in WV, but borders OH and PA)
Hourly: $215/hr day, $235/hr night
W2 or 1099 or k1: W2
Patients per hour: 1.5
Annual census: Not sure
Cme: Nope
Annual bonus ~ Nope
Benefits: Health, life, disability insurance, vision, dental, 401K

 

[trackrunner321]

Vituity? You like them?

I think they are one of the least bad CMGs...

 

[CliveStaples]

Employer: University Hospital
ER setting: Urban
Region: Midwest
Hourly: Salaried, but roughly $220/hr day and $255/hr night
W2 or 1099 or K1: W2
Patients per hour: ~2.5
Annual census: 90k
Cme: 5k
Annual bonus: Around $60-70k
Benefits: Health, Life, Disability, Vision, Dental, College Tuition, better than average 403(b) match, paid Vacation

Without including the value of all the insurances (which varies in value based on what you'd otherwise pay for those products), I'd estimate the value of total compensation to be in the neighborhood of 305/hr days and 340/hr nights. We see a lot of patients but having residents makes it possible to hone in on just evaluating patients and teaching, and not documenting, getting caught in long procedures, etc.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Employer: University Hospital
ER setting: Urban
Region: Midwest
Hourly: Salaried, but roughly $220/hr day and $255/hr night
W2 or 1099 or K1: W2
Patients per hour: ~2.5
Annual census: 90k
Cme: 5k
Annual bonus: Around $60-70k
Benefits: Health, Life, Disability, Vision, Dental, College Tuition, better than average 403(b) match, paid Vacation

Without including the value of all the insurances (which varies in value based on what you'd otherwise pay for those products), I'd estimate the value of total compensation to be in the neighborhood of 305/hr days and 340/hr nights. We see a lot of patients but having residents makes it possible to hone in on just evaluating patients and teaching, and not documenting, getting caught in long procedures, etc.

Paid vacation? Sweet. That is so rare in emergency medicine. My vacations are essentially me scheduling all my shifts together so i can take time off 😂

 

[CliveStaples]

Paid vacation? Sweet. That is so rare in emergency medicine. My vacations are essentially me scheduling all my shifts together so i can take time off 😂

Yeah chalk that one up to the University life and needing to confirm to the campus's standards for vacation. You're essentially paid for X number of hours you aren't working while on a vacation.

 

[GatorCHOMPions]

Employer: SDG
ER setting: Urban
Region: Northeast
Hourly: $225/hour
W2 or 1099 or k1: 1099
Patients per hour: 1.5-1.8 self, minimal midlevel supervision
Annual census: 60k
Cme: None
Annual bonus: n/a
Benefits: n/a

This is about as good as it gets from what I’ve found in the urban northeast. If you’re making 250+/hour you’re seeing well over 2 pph plus midlevel supervision. Makes me jealous of everyone else’s numbers.

Edited out quarterly bonus, that was mistakenly copied and pasted from a prior poster.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Employer: SDG
ER setting: Urban
Region: Northeast
Hourly: $225/hour
W2 or 1099 or k1: 1099
Patients per hour: 1.5-1.8 self, minimal midlevel supervision
Annual census: 60k
Cme: None
Occasional Quarterly Bonus: Approximately $25-35k over the year
Annual bonus: n/a
Benefits: n/a

This is about as good as it gets from what I’ve found in the urban northeast. If you’re making 250+/hour you’re seeing well over 2 pph plus midlevel supervision. Makes me jealous of everyone else’s numbers.

2-2.5 pph - ive done it in the past, it just induces burn out i feel. You can only do it for so long especially if dealing with high acuity and admission rate, unless you are just ridiculously fast and a total rockstar.

I make less than you on an hourly basis - $200/hr. But honestly i won’t even consider $300/hr if it involves 2-2.5 pph average volume. It’s just not worth it anymore.

 

[TrailRun]

Employer: SDG
ER setting: Urban
Region: Northeast
Hourly: $225/hour
W2 or 1099 or k1: 1099
Patients per hour: 1.5-1.8 self, minimal midlevel supervision
Annual census: 60k
Cme: None
Occasional Quarterly Bonus: Approximately $25-35k over the year
Annual bonus: n/a
Benefits: n/a

This is about as good as it gets from what I’ve found in the urban northeast. If you’re making 250+/hour you’re seeing well over 2 pph plus midlevel supervision. Makes me jealous of everyone else’s numbers.

Aren’t you a Pain doc? Or am I mistaken. Or maybe you still dabble

 

[jiffywerk]

Employer: SDG
ER setting: Community
Region: Midwest
Hourly: $275/hr (includes everything)
W2 or 1099 or k1: 1099
Patients per hour: 1.4
Annual census: 30k
Cme: None
Occasional Quarterly Bonus: None
Annual bonus: n/a
Benefits: n/a

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Employer: SDG
ER setting: Community
Region: Midwest
Hourly: $275/hr (includes everything)
W2 or 1099 or k1: 1099
Patients per hour: 1.4
Annual census: 30k
Cme: None
Occasional Quarterly Bonus: None
Annual bonus: n/a
Benefits: n/a

Significant subsidy or ridiculously insured population or lots of midlevels? Collecting $200/patient (not including other overhead) is incredibly hard in today’s environment.

 

[GatorCHOMPions]

Aren’t you a Pain doc? Or am I mistaken. Or maybe you still dabble

Yes but that’s my per diem pain gig

 

[fresyes123]

Model	Location/Region​	Academic / Community​	​ Pay Model (RVU, Hourly, Hybrid)​ ​ ​	​ Pay Type (1099, W2)​ ​ ​	​ Median Pts/Hr​ ​ ​	Median Hourly Pay ​	Census​	Benefits	Notes​
Hospital Employed	Central Valley, CA​	Suburban Community​	Salaried/Hourly​	W2​	1.5-2.0​	$225-300/hr​	55k​	Insane. 401k gifting (not matching) of ~$20k. Pension of 2% of highest 3 year base salary average (starting base is $375k/yr) x number of years worked. 15-30k yearly bonus, paid holidays and 3-5 weeks vacation, 1 week CME paid hourly, $5000 CME additional, licenses paid for. Amazing health insurance, disability, etc	Low acuity, no mid-level supervision, have most/all services, 1-3 nights per month. No overtime rate. Good gig​

 

[BoardingDoc]

Employer: SDG
ER setting: Community
Region: NE
Hourly: Variable based on productivity. So far this year -->
Hourly not including benefits: $314/hr
Hourly including 401k match/health insurance/disability/etc: $344/hr
W2 or 1099 or k1: W2
Patients per hour: 1.8-2.2 solo + 0.5-1pph PA supervision
Annual census: 35k
Cme: 3k
Bonus: Included in both rates above
Benefits: See above.

 

[cyanide12345678]

Model	Location/Region​	Academic / Community​	​ Pay Model (RVU, Hourly, Hybrid)​ ​ ​	​ Pay Type (1099, W2)​ ​ ​	​ Median Pts/Hr​ ​ ​	Median Hourly Pay ​	Census​	Benefits	Notes​
Hospital Employed	Central Valley, CA​	Suburban Community​	Salaried/Hourly​	W2​	1.5-2.0​	$225-300/hr​	55k​	Insane. 401k gifting (not matching) of ~$20k. Pension of 2% of highest 3 year base salary average (starting base is $375k/yr) x number of years worked. 15-30k yearly bonus, paid holidays and 3-5 weeks vacation, 1 week CME paid hourly, $5000 CME additional, licenses paid for. Amazing health insurance, disability, etc	Low acuity, no mid-level supervision, have most/all services, 1-3 nights per month. No overtime rate. Good gig​

Is this kaiser? Sounds like an incredible gig.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Is this kaiser? Sounds like an incredible gig.

Yeah, so far this is the clear winner.

 

[Mount Asclepius]

Employer: SDG
ER setting: Community
Region: West
Hourly: Variable depending productivity/volume, current average ~$370/hr (includes night differential and retirement contributions), additional minimal MLP supervision plus percentage of their billing
W2 or 1099 or k1: W2 (owner/partner)
Patients per hour: 1.8 average (wide shift range from 0.7-2.9 depending upon volume), excludes minimal MLP supervision (0-0.5 pph)
Annual census: 75K
Cme: Yes
Bonus: Additional profit sharing, variable
Benefits: Yes, all come out of your pocket as owner though

 

[fresyes123]

Is this kaiser? Sounds like an incredible gig.

yup. kaiser

 

[Apollyon]

Employer: SDG
ER setting: Community
Region: West
Hourly: Variable depending productivity/volume, current average ~$370/hr (includes night differential and retirement contributions), additional minimal MLP supervision plus percentage of their billing
W2 or 1099 or k1: W2 (owner/partner)
Patients per hour: 1.8 average (wide shift range from 0.7-2.9 depending upon volume), excludes minimal MLP supervision (0-0.5 pph)
Annual census: 75K
Cme: Yes
Bonus: Additional profit sharing, variable
Benefits: Yes, all come out of your pocket as owner though

How do you have a W2, and not a K1, If you are partner?

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Significant subsidy or ridiculously insured population or lots of midlevels? Collecting $200/patient (not including other overhead) is incredibly hard in today’s environment.

Really? We get over $200/pt at my big hospital, and it's not even the best one in our group coverage area.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

How do you have a W2, and not a K1, If you are partner?

We do it this way too. I'm a shareholder in the business and also employed by the business. Seems to work out just fine.

 

[Apollyon]

We do it this way too. I'm a shareholder in the business and also employed by the business. Seems to work out just fine.

But, I mean, do you get both? The K1, I believe, is common across other businesses.

 

[WildEMDoc]

Employer: Employed by hospital
ER setting: Large Suburban
Region: Texas
Pay: Salaried at 350k for first year, then will increase to 420k. 265/hr for overtime. 13x10 hour shifts a month
W2 or 1099 or K1: W2
Patients per hour: roughly 2
Annual census: ~45k
CME: 4.5k
Benefits: Health, Life, Disability, Vision, Dental, very good retirement/match with separate physician retirement funded by health system.

 

[cyanide12345678]

How do you have a W2, and not a K1, If you are partner?

I believe if the business is set up as an S corp then you can be a w2 employee while being an owner separately. Then you get an employee w2 and distribution income on the side through ownership. I could be wrong but that’s my understanding.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

But, I mean, do you get both? The K1, I believe, is common across other businesses.

No, it's managed in a way that everything comes through as W2. Pretty simple.

 

[RustedFox]

We Florida boys are getting major league hosed on benefits.

 

[thegenius]

Moderators: @southerndoc , @BoardingDoc and others:

We need to compile this info into a spreadsheet like Google spreadsheets. Can you guys create/force a top post, that is make it a first post of this thread? I think what I would like to do is make a google spreadsheet, and the link goes to a read-only version of it. It should be the first post. I don't really know exactly how this works, whether I use my own google account (or some other one or whether it really matters or not.)

 

[BoardingDoc]

Moderators: @southerndoc , @BoardingDoc and others:

We need to compile this info into a spreadsheet like Google spreadsheets. Can you guys create/force a top post, that is make it a first post of this thread? I think what I would like to do is make a google spreadsheet, and the link goes to a read-only version of it. It should be the first post. I don't really know exactly how this works, whether I use my own google account (or some other one or whether it really matters or not.)

So I can edit/delete posts, but I can't edit post order within a thread. As such, the way I see it is that we have 2 options.

1: @cyanide12345678 can edit the first post to prominently display whatever google sheet link you make
2: I can add the google sheet link to the "popular threads" sticky

 

[cyanide12345678]

So I can edit/delete posts, but I can't edit post order within a thread. As such, the way I see it is that we have 2 options.

1: @cyanide12345678 can edit the first post to prominently display whatever google sheet link you make
2: I can add the google sheet link to the "popular threads" sticky

Yes i can add a google link if someone creates the spreadsheet and gives me the link.

Having said that, just 1-2 days ago, the physician side gig group on FB just released a spreadsheet with similar data that happens to be a fairly impressive accumulation of data.

 

[DocEspana]

In the spirit of salary transparency I've created this thread to create awareness and information for fellow EM docs so they can understand their fair market value and essentially negotiate an income that represents their worth as trained ER docs.

I’ll go first. Here's my current job.

Employer: University group
ER setting: rural
Region: mid west
Hourly: $200/hr
W2 or 1099 or k1: w2
Patients per hour: 1.1 average last year
Annual census: i believe 8600
Cme: 5k
Annual bonus ~ 40k (given quarterly)
Benefits: the usual - health, life, disability insurance., vision, dental. Plus 2 weeks paid paternity leave and 50 percent tuition discount to the university for kids. 401k match at 5%
Overtime rate: $220/hr

Employer: CMG
ER setting: Urban - satellite site of major system
Region: Southeast
Hourly: $270-290 (some RVU variance built in)
Pay type: 1099
Patient per hour: 2.0 almost exactly
CME: I'm sorry, what?
Annual Bonus: We actually did get a $25k bonus once, but that is definitely a one time thing
Benefits: I don't even recognize what that word means.
Overtime rate: you all get overtime?

 

[lp430]

This feels like when I was reading people's Step scores on SDN. I know the average of ER docs nationally, but curious where the other side of the bell curve is? No shade... seems like some good gigs out there.

 

[alpinism]

Yeah like anything in life people are more likely to post their high rates.

I have a bunch of friends in NYC and LA that make 160-180/hr with benefits.

 

[alpinism]

Plus all the people working shifts at low volume rural hospitals for 120-140/hr with benefits.

 

[JAFERD_MD]

I used to work part time at a PE-owned urgent care for 140/hr on a 1099. The only benefit I got was "well, you can get free treatment at our urgent care twice a year."

I also used to work part time in an ER for 180/hr on a W2 without benefits.

I quit a couple of years ago. I don't think the rates have gone up for either.

 

[JacobMcCandles]

Lot of 75th and 90th percentile jobs getting posted.

 

[sloh]

Is this kaiser? Sounds like an incredible gig.

Lol it’s in central Cali. Yuck.

 

[gruemd]

Plus all the people working shifts at low volume rural hospitals for 120-140/hr with benefits.

Very true. I'm actually about to start a side gig working a 24 or 48 every other month at a 4-5 patient per day hospital for ~160/hr to separately fund another 401k. Because my "employer" (my sdg) contributes all of my current 401k funds, I can have another account that I'll be able to contribute the legal limit to, getting me up to 88k per year pre tax contributions.

Plus that's the kind of gig I want to eventually transition to when I reach a solid coast FIRE number.

 

[thegenius]

So I can edit/delete posts, but I can't edit post order within a thread. As such, the way I see it is that we have 2 options.

1: @cyanide12345678 can edit the first post to prominently display whatever google sheet link you make
2: I can add the google sheet link to the "popular threads" sticky

Well first let's see if I even have the time to put it together. It's very hard to compare and contrast jobs/pay posted here, and we need a standard way of displaying this data above. And the google sheet has to be maintained too, it's not worth having stale data in there

 

[thegenius]

Yes i can add a google link if someone creates the spreadsheet and gives me the link.

Having said that, just 1-2 days ago, the physician side gig group on FB just released a spreadsheet with similar data that happens to be a fairly impressive accumulation of data.

Is there a way for non FB docs to see it? If i recall to join that group you actually have to be vetted (like they look up your NPI or DEA number or something).

 

[thegenius]

Lol it’s in central Cali. Yuck.

Yea it's 163 degrees in the Fresno area from June 5 through Aug 25. All the time. Every day.

 

[thegenius]

This feels like when I was reading people's Step scores on SDN. I know the average of ER docs nationally, but curious where the other side of the bell curve is? No shade... seems like some good gigs out there.

Yea I know...who is posting that they make $185/hr as an 1099? Those jobs exist. It's almost like we need to make this an anonymous thing

 

[skougess]

Yea it's 163 degrees in the Fresno area from June 5 through Aug 25. All the time. Every day.

Lol, I’m not sure if this is sarcastic, but I spent a few years in the Central Valley and this isn’t all that inaccurate.

You could buy a loooot of AC with that compensation package though!

 

[thegenius]

Lol, I’m not sure if this is sarcastic, but I spent a few years in the Central Valley and this isn’t all that inaccurate.

You could buy a loooot of AC with that compensation package though!

It's basically true. When I interviewed at Fresno for residency they had a slide that showed > 30 consecutive days of > 100F heat in the summer.

 

[sloh]

Lol, I’m not sure if this is sarcastic, but I spent a few years in the Central Valley and this isn’t all that inaccurate.

You could buy a loooot of AC with that compensation package though!

I did my intern year there and the summers are absolutely brutal. More than anything though there’s just nothing to do there. It’s not like SoCal/LA/OC/SD at all. I also wouldn’t want to raise a family/have kids in Central Cali. Schools leave much to be desired. I remember taking to a nurse there who moved from Michigan to Central Cali thinking it would be like Santa Monica. Lmao. She was like “what did I get myself into?”

 

[BoardingDoc]

This feels like when I was reading people's Step scores on SDN. I know the average of ER docs nationally, but curious where the other side of the bell curve is? No shade... seems like some good gigs out there.

I interviewed for a job when I was straight out of residency.
Northeast
W2
SDG (apparently a partner from day one)
Low volume
130/hr
Bonus/profit sharing was something like 10-20k/yr.
Decent benefits

The group has since gone under and is now a hospital employed gig. Hourly is 180 now.

I also interviewed at a USACS site. Rate was $170/hr and normal USACS benefits / "physician ownership BS"

Definitely a wide spread of jobs out there, but yeah, you aren't hearing from the people in the places I listed because who wants to share that?

 

[thegenius]

I did my intern year there and the summers are absolutely brutal. More than anything though there’s just nothing to do there. It’s not like SoCal/LA/OC/SD at all. I also wouldn’t want to raise a family/have kids in Central Cali. Schools leave much to be desired. I remember taking to a nurse there who moved from Michigan to Central Cali thinking it would be like Santa Monica. Lmao. She was like “what did I get myself into?”

I interviewed for a job in Modesto several years ago after I graduated from residency. Modesto is for all intents and purposes the same as Fresno in the big picture. My wife was like "NO WAY" California is pretty along the coast and in the mountains, but in-between it's as blah as them come.

 

[lp430]

I interviewed for a job when I was straight out of residency.
Northeast
W2
SDG (apparently a partner from day one)
Low volume
130/hr
Bonus/profit sharing was something like 10-20k/yr.
Decent benefits

The group has since gone under and is now a hospital employed gig. Hourly is 180 now.

I also interviewed at a USACS site. Rate was $170/hr and normal USACS benefits / "physician ownership BS"

Definitely a wide spread of jobs out there, but yeah, you aren't hearing from the people in the places I listed because who wants to share that?

I hear ya. I think a lot of med students/residents could miss the doom and gloom on this board and only see this post... i can make $400/hr?!?! Sign me up for EM!

 

[TrailRun]

Employer: SDG
ER setting: Community
Region: NE
Hourly: Variable based on productivity. So far this year -->
Hourly not including benefits: $314/hr
Hourly including 401k match/health insurance/disability/etc: $344/hr
W2 or 1099 or k1: W2
Patients per hour: 1.8-2.2 solo + 0.5-1pph PA supervision
Annual census: 35k
Cme: 3k
Bonus: Included in both rates above
Benefits: See above.

Are you hiring? Asking for a friend, and by northeast do you mean rural Maine 10 hours from Boston

 

[cyanide12345678]

Is there a way for non FB docs to see it? If i recall to join that group you actually have to be vetted (like they look up your NPI or DEA number or something).

You have to be vetted with npi. The data itself is completely anonymous though.

It’s basically just an excel file with a ridiculous amount of data. Thousands of physicians have entered information within multiple specialties.

Send me a DM and I’ll see if i can hook you up with the data without Facebook.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Are you hiring? Asking for a friend, and by northeast do you mean rural Maine 10 hours from Boston

Not hiring at the moment. Can certainly give a shout if that changes.