I'm quitting.. do I really need to finish the 90 day notice?

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dannyboy1 said:
Maybe. OP has not told us if he is working as part of a PP group or as an AMC employee. In any event it seems unwise to potentially burn bridges over 3 months. The job market may not always be as good as it is now…..
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Yea, bridges would be burned either way.

The other physicians in the group would surely remember the guy who bailed on them and as a result, they had issues with vacation coverage, etc.
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dabears505 said:
Forget 90 days, I once gave no notice at all. I was in a case and my future job emailed me an offer. I called someone in for a bathroom break, and never looked back. They stopped calling an hour later. To my credit, it was a stable patient in a stable case.
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This has to be a joke, because if it is real you deserve a sanction on your medical license
 
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dabears505 said:
Forget 90 days, I once gave no notice at all. I was in a case and my future job emailed me an offer. I called someone in for a bathroom break, and never looked back. They stopped calling an hour later. To my credit, it was a stable patient in a stable case.
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I hope you're trolling because yo......
 
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dabears505 said:
Come on guys, of course it's a joke. But that would be an epic way to quit
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….pushes 200mg prop, puts in tube, drops laryngoscope and leaves hosptial to go across town to next job ….
 
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linkin06 said:
I have heard USAP has a "do not hire" list that you could end up on... think of it from the other perspective too. if you leave suddenly, the remaining group does not have much time to fill the hole. everyone else remaining will work harder and not be happy.
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Do not hire list depends if they are dangerous unsafe or just don’t get along with people or jet/left on bad terms.

I’ve known “Do not hire docs and crnas “ still work at usap and envision. Lol. Even after leaving on bad terms. Depends how desperate they get.
Even docs and crna’s who leave suddenly.
 
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dabears505 said:
Forget 90 days, I once gave no notice at all. I was in a case and my future job emailed me an offer. I called someone in for a bathroom break, and never looked back. They stopped calling an hour later. To my credit, it was a stable patient in a stable case.
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This reminds me of a dream that I had post-residency. I dreamed that I was no longer in private practice but pulled back into residency somehow. I got stuck in a never-ending garbage room and was being berated by my attending for nit-picky details of how I was doing the case. Like, "why did you use THAT syringe instead of THIS one to draw up the propofol? Let me re-tape the tube, you did it all wrong!" Just busting my balls over nothing.

The attending finally left to go hang out in the lounge and (dream logic) I could see and hear a large group of attendings in the physicians' lounge, laughing it up and joking about how they were going to leave me in there to rot all day. At this point in the dream, I remembered that I had already graduated and didn't need to be there. I called my attending and just said, "Get back in here. The patient is doing fine, but I'm leaving. I don't need to be here." He started sputtering but I hung up the phone and walked out of the OR. It was a very strange dream.
 
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rakotomazoto said:
This reminds me of a dream that I had post-residency. I dreamed that I was no longer in private practice but pulled back into residency somehow. I got stuck in a never-ending garbage room and was being berated by my attending for nit-picky details of how I was doing the case. Like, "why did you use THAT syringe instead of THIS one to draw up the propofol? Let me re-tape the tube, you did it all wrong!" Just busting my balls over nothing.

The attending finally left to go hang out in the lounge and (dream logic) I could see and hear a large group of attendings in the physicians' lounge, laughing it up and joking about how they were going to leave me in there to rot all day. At this point in the dream, I remembered that I had already graduated and didn't need to be there. I called my attending and just said, "Get back in here. The patient is doing fine, but I'm leaving. I don't need to be here." He started sputtering but I hung up the phone and walked out of the OR. It was a very strange dream.
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damn...
 
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rakotomazoto said:
This reminds me of a dream that I had post-residency. I dreamed that I was no longer in private practice but pulled back into residency somehow. I got stuck in a never-ending garbage room and was being berated by my attending for nit-picky details of how I was doing the case. Like, "why did you use THAT syringe instead of THIS one to draw up the propofol? Let me re-tape the tube, you did it all wrong!" Just busting my balls over nothing.

The attending finally left to go hang out in the lounge and (dream logic) I could see and hear a large group of attendings in the physicians' lounge, laughing it up and joking about how they were going to leave me in there to rot all day. At this point in the dream, I remembered that I had already graduated and didn't need to be there. I called my attending and just said, "Get back in here. The patient is doing fine, but I'm leaving. I don't need to be here." He started sputtering but I hung up the phone and walked out of the OR. It was a very strange dream.
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Dreams are weird, anesthesia dreams more weird than usual.

The last one I had, I was doing an appy, in a grocery store. I was moving sacks of potatoes out of the way so I could see the monitor and when I could finally see it, the O2 sat was in the 60s. I was like, damn it, I knew I should've moved those potatoes before we started. I hope he hasn't been down that long.
 
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I also had weird anesthesia dreams while in residency.
 
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dipriMAN said:
So I gave 90 days notice, and my employer tells me that for the 90 “notice period” I won’t accrue any vacation. Seems ridiculous I will be working 3 months without collecting any paid time off, anyone else face this? It’s like a pay cut for 90 days.
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I’d ask them to show you where that’s stated in the contract, especially when you’re talking a likely 1-1/2 to 3 weeks of vacation (based on 6-12 weeks of vacation a year, for most groups).

If not in the contract, start off by telling them to please put that in writing, so your attorney will have a record of it....
 
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dipriMAN said:
So I gave 90 days notice, and my employer tells me that for the 90 “notice period” I won’t accrue any vacation. Seems ridiculous I will be working 3 months without collecting any paid time off, anyone else face this? It’s like a pay cut for 90 days.
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Vacation accrual should be spelled out in your contract.
 
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dipriMAN said:
So I gave 90 days notice, and my employer tells me that for the 90 “notice period” I won’t accrue any vacation. Seems ridiculous I will be working 3 months without collecting any paid time off, anyone else face this? It’s like a pay cut for 90 days.
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If they are going to be dicks about it..the call out sick your last week...stress leave..etc
 
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dipriMAN said:
So I gave 90 days notice, and my employer tells me that for the 90 “notice period” I won’t accrue any vacation. Seems ridiculous I will be working 3 months without collecting any paid time off, anyone else face this? It’s like a pay cut for 90 days.
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Your employer is giving you tacit permission to leave as soon as you’re credentialed elsewhere.
 
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dipriMAN said:
So I gave 90 days notice, and my employer tells me that for the 90 “notice period” I won’t accrue any vacation. Seems ridiculous I will be working 3 months without collecting any paid time off, anyone else face this? It’s like a pay cut for 90 days.
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Sounds like quitting is the right decision.
 
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Sorry to hear about your situation op. I would just quit as others have said. I recently quit a job too. although I worked my entire 3 month notice, I was surprised by the lack of professionalism from my employers. They wanted me to stay and even offered me partnership. As soon as I declined they started criticizing me for quitting and tried to screw me over on my vacation and gave me ****ty calls on the schedule. It’s sad how fellow doctors treat each other.
 
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Simba1711 said:
Sorry to hear about your situation op. I would just quit as others have said. I recently quit a job too. although I worked my entire 3 month notice, I was surprised by the lack of professionalism from my employers. They wanted me to stay and even offered me partnership. As soon as I declined they started criticizing me for quitting and tried to screw me over on my vacation and gave me ****ty calls on the schedule. It’s sad how fellow doctors treat each other.
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Yep. Stuff like this is one of the saddest parts of our profession (although I'm sure it happens in other professions too). People get real petty.
 
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G.A.S Team said:
Signing onto a new job. They want me to start ASAP. My current contract requires a 90 day notice. I'm already credentialed and ready to go at new spot for much more $$$.

Do I really need to finish the 90 day notice? What are the legal ramifications?
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It's not worth it to burn bridges.
 
Twiggidy said:
Yep. Stuff like this is one of the saddest parts of our profession (although I'm sure it happens in other professions too). People get real petty.
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I think it’s pretty ubiquitous even outside of medicine. But it really does say a lot about a practice and ultimately may validate decision to leave.

On the flip side, I also recently left a job after only a month with a group. I just felt it wasn’t the right fit for me and something else came up that was better for my family long-term. They were disappointed but understood and asked me to honor the 90 days in my contract, which I did. For those 90 days, I was treated no differently than any other member of the group and they would even ask for my input on how to change and improve the things that didn’t fit well with me, so that this situation won’t happen again. It really made me reconsider leaving because they were so great about it all.
 
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cincincyreds said:
It's not worth it to burn bridges.
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As evidenced by this thread, groups seem to have no problem burning bridges. Not only do they not seem to worry that you would never come back under any circumstance, but they also are willing to risk you speaking poorly of the group and not recommending it to colleagues in the future. That is extremely short-sighted of the group in tight markets like this one.

I will say it again, I think the fear of burning bridges is overblown. If the group has treated you fairly then definitely follow contractual obligations and leave on good terms. However, if the group is looking for ways to screw you on the way out then I say pour out the kerosene and burn those bridges to the ground.
 
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GravelRider said:
As evidenced by this thread, groups seem to have no problem burning bridges. Not only do they not seem to worry that you would never come back under any circumstance, but they also are willing to risk you speaking poorly of the group and not recommending it to colleagues in the future. That is extremely short-sighted of the group in tight markets like this one.

I will say it again, I think the fear of burning bridges is overblown. If the group has treated you fairly then definitely follow contractual obligations and leave on good terms. However, if the group is looking for ways to screw you on the way out then I say pour out the kerosene and burn those bridges to the ground.
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I agree with the above. I’m sure it happens in other fields as well but the thing that sucks for us is that our notice to leave is 3 months. Most other jobs is 2 weeks. 3 months is a long time to be in a ****ty situation.
 
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Simba1711 said:
I agree with the above. I’m sure it happens in other fields as well but the thing that sucks for us is that our notice to leave is 3 months. Most other jobs is 2 weeks. 3 months is a long time to be in a ****ty situation.
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I tend to agree with you.....

The problem for most new hires/temp hires it takes about 3 months to credential someone.
 
Remember that if you’re working for a large health system, they have no qualms about abruptly cancelling contracts.


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It's a complicated issue. I think it's poor form to screw over (soon to be former) coworkers, but on the other hand the overlords are the ones who created the scenario in the first place. If they weren't short staffed and inducing people to leave, then they wouldn't have these systemic problems.

So it's convenient for them to play the physicians against each other to make a departing employee look like the bad egg. Similarly 90 days seems onerous. I think 30 days is much more reasonable. If it takes these places 90 days or more to credential someone then that's simply on them, it should't be the employee's problem. Such needless inefficiencies benefit the employers, otherwise they'd fix them.
 
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kidthor said:
It's a complicated issue. I think it's poor form to screw over (soon to be former) coworkers, but on the other hand the overlords are the ones who created the scenario in the first place. If they weren't short staffed and inducing people to leave, then they wouldn't have these systemic problems.

So it's convenient for them to play the physicians against each other to make a departing employee look like the bad egg. Similarly 90 days seems onerous. I think 30 days is much more reasonable. If it takes these places 90 days or more to credential someone then that's simply on them, it should't be the employee's problem. Such needless inefficiencies benefit the employers, otherwise they'd fix them.
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I think 90 days is pretty standard notice for physicians in almost any model (employment, partnership, etc).
 
The world is getting less civil and polite in general.
 
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My employment contract is day to day. Employer can fire me tomorrow without notice and I can do the same. If you are an employee don’t go for this 90 day BS, loyalty is seen as a weakness and will be exploited. Medicine is a BUSINESS and one should be prepared to walk.
 
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marr65 said:
My employment contract is day to day. Employer can fire me tomorrow without notice and I can do the same. If you are an employee don’t go for this 90 day BS, loyalty is seen as a weakness and will be exploited. Medicine is a BUSINESS and one should be prepared to walk.
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I had an employer tell me they "forgot" to send my completed credentialing packet to the committee two times in a row, then suggest I could just delay my move across the country (which already occurred 6 weeks prior) and/or work for my previous employer (with whom I had terminated already) till they got it sorted out. This was with 7 months of lead time for them to have figured everything out.

Some employers maintain relative incompetence because it doesn't seem to harm them.
 
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I tend to agree with the notion that the fear of burning bridges is overblown.

Medicine is just a business like everything else. If the shoe were on the other foot, I am sure my employer wouldn’t think twice about screwing me over if it was financially in their best interest, so why can’t this be reciprocal on my end? Why is the burden always on the physician to stay professional, maintain his or her duty to his or her patients, & do the right thing, etc .. when the corporate administrators aren’t held to the same standard?

At the end of the day, I’m going to take the business decision that is in the best interest of myself and my family.
 
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G.A.S Team said:
Thanks everyone for the replies. I tend to agree with the notion that the fear of burning bridges is overblown.

Medicine is just a business like everything else. If the shoe were on the other foot, I am sure my employer wouldn’t think twice about screwing me over if it was financially in their best interest, so why can’t this be reciprocal on my end? Why is the burden always on the physician to stay professional, maintain his or her duty to his or her patients, & do the right thing, etc .. when the corporate administrators aren’t held to the same standard?

At the end of the day, I’m going to take the business decision that is in the best interest of myself and my family.
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Hell yeah! Look out for yourself because no one else will.
 
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DocVapor said:
You get absolutely no credit for this garbage and frankly unethical behavior.
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Not ideal behaviour but I did spit my coffee out and I wasn’t even drinking any.

I do agree with what gasteam has said here:
“If the shoe were on the other foot, I am sure my employer wouldn’t think twice about screwing me over if it was financially in their best interest, so why can’t this be reciprocal on my end? Why is the burden always on the physician to stay professional, maintain his or her duty to his or her patients, & do the right thing, etc .. when the corporate administrators aren’t held to the same standard?”

I guess someone has to have some kind of conscience about it, unfortunately it ends up being the physicians a good amount of the time.

I got burned by my current group and gave my 90 day notice after 3 months. I feel for you but probably finish it out.
 
Employer can fire an employee at will with zero justification, 90 day notice should be BS because they don't have any loyalty, remorse, or appreciation. It's all business, it sucks that the one getting screwed has to be the one who has to play nice
 
ItBurnsInMyHand said:
Not ideal behaviour but I did spit my coffee out and I wasn’t even drinking any.

I do agree with what gasteam has said here:
“If the shoe were on the other foot, I am sure my employer wouldn’t think twice about screwing me over if it was financially in their best interest, so why can’t this be reciprocal on my end? Why is the burden always on the physician to stay professional, maintain his or her duty to his or her patients, & do the right thing, etc .. when the corporate administrators aren’t held to the same standard?”

I guess someone has to have some kind of conscience about it, unfortunately it ends up being the physicians a good amount of the time.

I got burned by my current group and gave my 90 day notice after 3 months. I feel for you but probably finish it out.
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How did you get burned?
 
2Fast2Des said:
Employer can fire an employee at will with zero justification, 90 day notice should be BS because they don't have any loyalty, remorse, or appreciation. It's all business, it sucks that the one getting screwed has to be the one who has to play nice
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My contract says my employer has to give me 90 days. Seems fair i should have to do the same…
 
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I think most of our contracts say we can be terminated without cause but there is some sort of 30-90 prior notice.

I’d be very shocked if legally any employer any of have can just ask us to not come to work the next day if there is no cause and without some compensation or ramification, and if they do they probably will make up a reason for cause but it better be well documented, which is a good reason to stay on top of charting etc and stay out of trouble.
 
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Twiggidy said:
I think most of our contracts say we can be terminated without cause but there is some sort of 30-90 prior notice.

I’d be very shocked if legally any employer any of have can just ask us to not come to work the next day if there is no cause and without some compensation or ramification, and if they do they probably will make up a reason for cause but it better be well documented, which is a good reason to stay on top of charting etc and stay out of trouble.
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If you’re employed and causing problems or unsafe, they’ll likely just pay to make you go away. Seen this happen before, they’ll say don’t come back but still pay you severance for the elimination period and not drag you through the mud with the state board to avoid lawyers. Indeed, this is how Dr. Death was able to get multiple jobs before earning a single red flag on his record.
 
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The reality is that "life" happens and every employers have to realize that there may be a reason, whether legit or not, why someone may have to no longer work for them with very short notice. The ramification is usually either reputation hit (just leave) or a financial hit (pay some sort of damage).
 
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