if you had a choice.....

[radonc]

since radonc is competitive a lot of people will not have choices out there. here is your chance. and here is the scenario. a pretty good student, 220's, research, 1 publication, good letters (sounds like most people!), 7 interviews.

and then in february, before you submit your rank list, a program approaches you to go outside the match.

would you go to:

1. a radiation oncology program that is really bad (like suny brooklyn)

2. a middle tier radiation oncology program (nyu, uva, loyola), but you would have to wait a couple of years and finish IM first

3. take your chances in the match


btw, this is all just for fun.

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[argg]

Just for the sake of your little hypothetical, why do you say what you do about SUNY-Brooklyn?

 

[radonc]

because out of 60 or 70-some programs, some programs have to be at the bottom. suny brooklyn is a small program with not much technology, not many faculty and they are overshadowed by MKSCC (top tier) and mt sinai and nyu (mid tier) in terms of the general area. they dont have a strong patient population in terms of numbers. lastly, i know people who have interviewed at that program, and those people are average or even sub-par. thats all.


sorry if i offended anyone.

 

[cancer_doc]

Here's my opinion:

If a low tier program offered me a spot outside the match, and I didn't interview anywhere else, or if the other programs I interviewed were in the same tier, I probably would accept the offer.

I would lean towards not accepting an outside-the-match offer from a low tier programs and take my chances in the match if I interviewed at better places (atleast 5) AND I felt good about the interviews.

Now, if a middle tier promised me a spot, but on the condition I have to finish IM first, I may accept that if I can say yes to these two questions: 1. I love Rad Onc sooooo much that I'd be willing to undergo 3 years of hard labor to complete an IM residency, THEN do another 4 years of Rad Onc (which isn't a cake walk, either). 2. I am absolutely confident I have no chance of getting accepted to a similar or better program this year or when I reapply.

That's my 2 cents.

 

[cancer_doc]

BTW, what do I have to do to drop this "junior" label and become a member? bake a cake?

 

[argg]

Radonc, you seem to be usually very much in the know about a lot of the programs around the country based on previous posts, but I think you are suprisingly misinformed about Downstate. I'm a med student at Downstate and have rotated through the department and talked to quite a few students/residents in the area about the programs in NYC. Most I have talked to consider the program here one of the strongest in NYC in terms of clinical training, didactics, and atmosphere.
It is true the program is overshadowed by MSKCC (as is every program in NYC) but noone I have spoken to thinks Downstate is overshadowed by other area programs.
I can't argue about the technology issue. Downstate doesn't have some technology found elsewhere, such as a stereotactic radiosurgery system and HDR brachy. But barring those, I think the department is comparable to any other in NYC in terms of technology (save MSKCC again obviously).
And as far as the program being small and having a limited patient base, this is simply far from the truth. Downstate takes 2 residents per year (again more than any other NYC program save MSKCC). And as far as cacthment area, it includes all of Brooklyn, SI, much of Queens, and some of Manhattan (well over 2.5 million people). In terms of hospitals and patients, this gives the residents 5 hospitals to rotate through with in excess of 300 patients seen and treated per year at each hospital. In researching other programs I haven't found many with as many patients being seen and treated in total.
Finally, the residents that I know at the program were all very strong candidates (much stronger than your hypothetical candidate above) when they applied and (for those that didn't genuinely want to come to the program to begin with) were simply limited to NYC geographically.
Sorry if I got a little offended. I just think Downstate gets the short end of the stick in terms of reputation too often, not just in rad onc.

Now, in answer to your original hypothetical, I would probably take the offer outside the match, but I'm no gambling man.

 

[XxdtxX]

Say if you are an IMG and had no chance of getting into a Rad Onc program right out of med school,would doing an IM residency first greatly increase your odds or will it still be a very long shot????

 

[radonc]

argg-
thanks for those comments, i was making assumptions based on what i knew and what people who i knew who interviewed there told me. i interviewed at nyu, mtsinai, AE and know about their faculty, research and technology. thanks for the info on suny brooklyn.

 

[stephew]

as an IMG you may *have* to do another residency (say IM) and try all the while to get a rad onc spot.

AS for becoming a full fledged grown up member here, I think its just the number of posts you make, but a cake wouldn't hurt. You know where to send it.
steph