I think I pissed off my recuiter. someone...advice?

[virilep]

hey guys. so just wanna give you all some background info.

I got the ROTC scholarship in college. declined to go past my 2nd year. (because if i didn't get into med school my first try, i'd be forced to go in as a line officer) I'm glad I did, because I didn't get in and took a year off. ANYHOW. now I have the HPSP scholarship offer (just got it today) and I'm definately happy. However, since I started my application, I've been doing reading on here and talking to people about the whole Air Force deal and I'm starting to have second thoughts (especially since my school is relatively cheap...about 20k for tuition+books). So anyhow, I got the phone call today and I told him that I need some time to think about it and to look over the financial aid deal the school gives me. he said ok and then called me back just now and was like "my boss is pissed. if you decline this offer, it will be a black mark on your social security number." and that I couldn't join the AF later. So now that's gotten me thinking...

1st, wouldn't they have rejected me already from the first time I said no if declining an offer via ROTC scholarship?

I just need some insight all. hope you can help.

I'm definately not set on rejecting of accepting the offer. need to make some choices soon. I've already had to go through some red tape via the AF and i wasn't a big fan. eeek. some elderly advice?

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[Heeed!]

hey guys. so just wanna give you all some background info.

I got the ROTC scholarship in college. declined to go past my 2nd year. (because if i didn't get into med school my first try, i'd be forced to go in as a line officer) I'm glad I did, because I didn't get in and took a year off. ANYHOW. now I have the HPSP scholarship offer (just got it today) and I'm definately happy. However, since I started my application, I've been doing reading on here and talking to people about the whole Air Force deal and I'm starting to have second thoughts (especially since my school is relatively cheap...about 20k for tuition+books). So anyhow, I got the phone call today and I told him that I need some time to think about it and to look over the financial aid deal the school gives me. he said ok and then called me back just now and was like "my boss is pissed. if you decline this offer, it will be a black mark on your social security number." and that I couldn't join the AF later. So now that's gotten me thinking...

1st, wouldn't they have rejected me already from the first time I said no if declining an offer via ROTC scholarship?

I just need some insight all. hope you can help.

I'm definately not set on rejecting of accepting the offer. need to make some choices soon. I've already had to go through some red tape via the AF and i wasn't a big fan. eeek. some elderly advice?

Black mark on your SSN??!! Wow, I didn't know that recruiter's commander had so much authority. That would be impressive. My advice is to not listen to your recruiter. They rarely know the whole truth. Think about your decision, weigh the pros/cons, and be decisive.

 

[AFMan42]

Hmmmm.....Sounds like you've got some commitment issues. A couple things....First, yeah your Recruiter is pretty aggravated. But he has a right to be. Both of you put in a lot of hard work into getting your package ready to meet the board. Despite what you may read here, you're not a shoe-in with a decent MCAT and GPA. They do look at the "whole person" concept when selecting. I suppose the "red tape" that you mentioned earlier had something to do with you dropping out of ROTC? I have to tell you, your Recruiters' Supervisor and Flt. Commander most likely had some serious questions over whether to even submitt your application. So ya can't blame him for being pissed when all of the hard work that went in to getting you selected was for naught. Despite I'm sure, assurances from you that you were "commited."

Second.....There's not really much your Recruiter can do if you've truly changed your mind. Fortunately, there are plenty of alternate selects who will be more than happy to take to take your scholarship.

The bottom line is this: You made an adult decision to apply for a scholarship and agreed to accept it if selected. Be a Man and follow through with it. If you are leaning towards declining however, you should at least wait until you get more feedback from posters on this site who were on or are on HPSP scholarships. And if you do decline? We're probably all better off in the long run.

 

[qqq]

"need some time to . . . look over the financial aid deal the school gives me" !!!!

if you've truly read this board it should be clear that you should not think about accepting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and don't worry about your recruiter, he'll get over it. all that stuff he did for you was just him doing what he gets paid to do. i can't believe that crap about the SSN, what a load of crap.

 

[bustbones26]

If you have any doubts, don't do it. Yes it will piss off your recruiter but in the long run, everything will turn oout okay for you and this person cannot black ball you for not taking the scholarship.

 

[virilep]

Hmmmm.....Sounds like you've got some commitment issues. A couple things....First, yeah your Recruiter is pretty aggravated. But he has a right to be. Both of you put in a lot of hard work into getting your package ready to meet the board. Despite what you may read here, you're not a shoe-in with a decent MCAT and GPA. They do look at the "whole person" concept when selecting. I suppose the "red tape" that you mentioned earlier had something to do with you dropping out of ROTC? I have to tell you, your Recruiters' Supervisor and Flt. Commander most likely had some serious questions over whether to even submitt your application. So ya can't blame him for being pissed when all of the hard work that went in to getting you selected was for naught. Despite I'm sure, assurances from you that you were "commited."

Second.....There's not really much your Recruiter can do if you've truly changed your mind. Fortunately, there are plenty of alternate selects who will be more than happy to take to take your scholarship.

The bottom line is this: You made an adult decision to apply for a scholarship and agreed to accept it if selected. Be a Man and follow through with it. If you are leaning towards declining however, you should at least wait until you get more feedback from posters on this site who were on or are on HPSP scholarships. And if you do decline? We're probably all better off in the long run.

I agree with your post. no doubt. but I did find it kinda upsetting that he was trying to pressure me into it. I wish he would have said "look over the application and if you weigh the pros and con's I'm sure you'll see the better decision. if you want a breakdown of the pros and cons i will help you out." so... that's my only qualm with the recruiter. the rest of it is on my side. If you base the "you have committment issues" statement on my ROTC thing, I'm kind of happy I didn't take it. at this point in my life I would have probably been a line officer. so... that's just one thing. I have the wkend to think about it. any more takers?

 

[cavaor]

I wouldnt worry about your recruiter. Shoot..mine is moving and I will be recruiter-less. He has done nothing since I signed the paperwork basically. He's all talk and I wouldn't sweat it. Its your life you have to worry about. I know they say you have 10 days to make a decision, blah blah blah... I took longer than that...and I ended up signing without any problems. Took 3 more weeks to find someone who was ranked higher enough to commission me (some conference was going on). So the deadlines I believe are relative. He just wants his bonus or whatever they get.

 

[dry dre]

Your recruiter is full of shiite. For spite, I would go to an AF recruiter's office and call the Army guy up and talk it over on speakerphone. The best thing about this approach is that he'll likely never call you again.

"Black mark on your SSN" what a load. If you haven't signed a contract/commitment, you've done nothing wrong. If having cold feet in the recruitment process earned "black marks" then 99% of the armed forces and veteran population would have black marks.

Your story demonstrates the kind of nonsense that many HPSPrs are fed. I'd still recommend against the HPSP anyway. You can ALWAYS sign up LATER, after medical school, for basically the same financial compensation package to pay off your loans...no need to sign now.

 

[MoosePilot]

Don't follow the poster who said "be a man". Once you're committed, then it's time to man up. Until then, take your time. If you make a mistake, it should be in the staying away from the military side.

When you join is going to be the most gung-ho you'll likely ever be (unless it's right after training). So if you're iffy now, that tells you something. Loans can be paid back easily.

 

[virilep]

Don't follow the poster who said "be a man". Once you're committed, then it's time to man up. Until then, take your time. If you make a mistake, it should be in the staying away from the military side.

When you join is going to be the most gung-ho you'll likely ever be (unless it's right after training). So if you're iffy now, that tells you something. Loans can be paid back easily.

moose. i trust your word. i read a lot of your posts. I agree... money is money. but ... alright. here is my main concern.. you all might think i'm a wuss for bringin this up. but it's a serious issue. what if i end up with a girl that doesn't want to move with me and everything for 4 years. and she brings that up at as something that might be a problem. i'm not only signing myself up for 4 years, but also my family. so that's another major issue i'm facing... agghhh...

 

[MoosePilot]

moose. i trust your word. i read a lot of your posts. I agree... money is money. but ... alright. here is my main concern.. you all might think i'm a wuss for bringin this up. but it's a serious issue. what if i end up with a girl that doesn't want to move with me and everything for 4 years. and she brings that up at as something that might be a problem. i'm not only signing myself up for 4 years, but also my family. so that's another major issue i'm facing... agghhh...

Yeah, that's really the big deal. It's good you see it early. You probably won't have *too* difficult a time during the dating phase. Unless you get deployed during the critical time when you're getting her hooked on you, you're probably ok. Women like the uniform and the idea of a man who's committed to his country, because she realizes you're not afraid to commit.

But eventually you'll find the *right* girl. You'll want to start a family. Who wants to be away from home in **** holes. Where you don't have a phone and email is blocked? It's tough! And you'll have kids and miss things like steps and words and stuff.

I saw a twilight zone or one of those type shows once where a man was asked would you trade 20 years for a house, car, etc? He said no, of course not. But the point of the show was that we all do it. Don't trade your time like that unless you're sure.

 

[ishii123]

I was in a similar situation many eons ago. All my Navy HPSP paperwork was done and I was awaiting acceptance from a medical school. Once I got accepted to a medical school, my recruiter was excited and asked me to come in and do the final paperwork, get commissioned, and officially become part of Navy HPSP. But at this point I was having second thoughts on joining the Navy. I was seriously dating a girl and I knew she could not manage the military lifestyle. Plus, my father served 30 years in the Navy and I personally knew the military moved the family a lot. So I told the recruiter I was having "second thoughts" and needed more time to think it over. She got pissed! She told me if I did not sign up soon that my HPSP slot could be taken up by someone else. She also stated that if I turned down the Navy HPSP, this would negatively impact my chances of joining the Navy in the future if I tried again. She was full of crap! I knew she was "bluffing" because I was a Navy brat and talked to my father and his Navy buddies who knew the system. All she cared about is her recruiting numbers, which would affect her Fit Rep and promotion. So I said "Screw the recruiter, it's my life, not hers!" I also knew if I did not get a Navy HPSP, there was always the Air Force or Army HPSP. And their recruiters were salivating at the opportunity to take me. In the end, I did decide to take the Navy HPSP. But I took my sweet time (6 weeks), did my research, and rationally weighed the pros and cons.

In this post 9/11 era, I honestly do not believe as many people are taking the HPSP scholarships. I admit, I have no hard data. But on the news (e.g. CNN, Fox, etc), there are already reports that recruiting numbers for the Marines and Army are low and not meeting the quota. So why would doctors be any different? Also, doctors invest so much of their time and money into education. So do many doctors want to deploy to places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and North Korea for up to 1 year? Do many doctors want to enter a war zone and get shot at? Do many doctors want to risk losing their life and risk losing this large education investment?

So if the recruiting numbers are lower in the post 9/11 era, that means you hold "all the cards" and the recruiter has "nothing". Which means the recruiter is "bluffing". So I say, screw the recruiter. Take your sweet time and do the research before signing up for this long commitment

 

[dpill]

..."my boss is pissed. if you decline this offer, it will be a black mark on your social security number." and that I couldn't join the AF later...

First, the black mark next to your SSN is a scare tactic and your recruiter saying these things to you is completely unprofessional. I am also going through the HPSP process after 13 years of military service. It is a BIG decision- so don’t let anyone bully you into it. I would ask to see it in writing where it states if you decline HPSP you can't join the AF later. I simply do not believe it. You have not signed any sort of contract/ agreement at this point, so how can you be “blacklisted” from joining later? If it is true, it has to be in writing somewhere (again, I don't believe it is true).

The AF has more scholarships than applicants awarded at this point (first time ever for the AF this late in the application season)... but they also have an alternate list. If you don't take the scholarship, then someone on the alternate list will be offered the scholarship- perhaps someone that really wants to join the AF, so don’t feel bad. Most recruiters get "points" for folks recruited (it is probably the same for HPSP); therefore they likely have a vested interest in recruiting you. This person's boss is probably at most a major, so who cares if his or her boss is pissed- and again, it is very unprofessional for your recruiter to try to scare you by telling you that. If you hadn't gotten picked up for the scholarship, would they offer YOU anything? No- bottom line, neither one of you owes each other anything at this point. So, do what is right for YOU... if you are truly unsure, there are lots of more conservative options- like signing up for a tuition payback program after you graduate from med school, if you are still interested in the military after med school. Your tuition is “relatively” low, so perhaps this is a reasonable option for your situation. In the end, remember it you that is making the big decision right now, not your recruiter. On a personal note, I have been completely unimpressed with the AF recruiting service as well. For the most part, I have enjoyed my time in the AF- but it is NOT for everyone. My husband is also military, so we both understand the hardships… and it is still tough. Best of luck with YOUR decision!

 

[virilep]

thanks guys for all the support. I really did think what he said was very unprofessional. it kinda hurt too. cuz i mean, i feel like it's a foreshadowing of what's to come. and i feel like this might be the only point where i can say no without having to go through more red-tape. So another question. is it true if i take the scholarship and decide a couple years later that i don't want to do it that I have to pay them back * 3? I wanna make sure I get all the details before I put my name on the dotted line. thanks all, and I really appreciate it.

 

[MoosePilot]

thanks guys for all the support. I really did think what he said was very unprofessional. it kinda hurt too. cuz i mean, i feel like it's a foreshadowing of what's to come. and i feel like this might be the only point where i can say no without having to go through more red-tape. So another question. is it true if i take the scholarship and decide a couple years later that i don't want to do it that I have to pay them back * 3? I wanna make sure I get all the details before I put my name on the dotted line. thanks all, and I really appreciate it.

I don't think they would make it easy on you to get out if it at all. If you somehow found a way, though, I doubt they could make you pay back more than cost plus interest.

This isn't really what is to come, but it is a taste. When you're commissioned, people won't be able to do exactly what he's doing. But they will just matter of fact tell you that the reg says they can do "x" with you and they're going to. It's not so much intimidation (although they will tell you you'll ruin your career if you do "y"), but more just "We have you by the balls, so here's what you're doing. Any questions?"

 

[Croooz]

DON'T DO IT!

You have not given any reasons why you should. If anything you are making provisions on how to get out of your contract...AND YOU HAVEN'T EVEN SIGNED UP!!

Take the loans and don't look back. You have no reason to join. If you want to be an officer in the military with EVERYTHING that entails then sign up. If not, then don't waste your time. Don't "man up" simply because your recruiter did some paperwork. This is what they are supposed to do. It wasn't like he/she went out of their way...it's their job while on recruiter duty. Walk away and don't look back. It's not worth it for you.

OR

Give reasons why you want to join. Forget why you don't but focus on what about the military attracts you. Don't mention money and you might have a shot at being a good candidate.

In my limited opinion based on the little you've given us my opinion is that you should NOT join the military.

 

[virilep]

update to all you helpful folks. I had a 20 min phone conversation with him today. I told him that I didn't want to take it and he was pretty pissed. He felt that he was "decieved and lied to" because he thinks that from the start I knew that I didn't want to take the scholarship. which makes no sense. anyhow. bottom line is that I didn't accept it. I told him and he was pretty mad. i was making "the biggest mistake of my life"

I talked to a guy that is going to my school that just matched and is graduating. he told me he would "hit me in the head" if I took the scholarship. first year out of ER residency he's gonna make 120 and his friend just got out of residency in ER and signed a contract for 300. So huge differential.

My idea is that let's just say I don't do well worse case scenario score low on my steps. then my options will be limited. even though I'll be happy doing family practice or peds, I can go into the military then via FAP (which by the way, my recruiter said was a worse deal than HPSP and didn't want to tell me why) and then figure stuff out.

so there's my update. thanks guys (I don't think any girls replied).

 

[cavaor]

"so there's my update. thanks guys (I don't think any girls replied)."

Well, last I checked I'm a girl..but thats ok...you didnt know Glad you made a decision one way or the other.

 

[Croatalus_atrox]

update to all you helpful folks. I had a 20 min phone conversation with him today. I told him that I didn't want to take it and he was pretty pissed. He felt that he was "decieved and lied to" because he thinks that from the start I knew that I didn't want to take the scholarship. which makes no sense. anyhow. bottom line is that I didn't accept it. I told him and he was pretty mad. i was making "the biggest mistake of my life"

Yeah, he's probably pissed because he got burned on the "Fool me once..." principle. He probably saw your withdrawal from your ROTC commitment on your military entrance processing database entry, but took a chance on you thinking that the reasons for your withdrawal no longer applied. You can bet that he's added a second entry into your file about your commitment phobia, and a third offer from the Air Force will not be forthcoming.

My idea is that let's just say I don't do well worse case scenario score low on my steps. then my options will be limited. even though I'll be happy doing family practice or peds, I can go into the military then via FAP (which by the way, my recruiter said was a worse deal than HPSP and didn't want to tell me why) and then figure stuff out.

I wouldn't count on being able to join the military as a backup plan, given your history. Sure, the military is hard up for doctors, but you've established a pattern of wasting their time by backing out when it is time to commit. Even the Army and the Navy will see your entries in the entrance processing database, and you would have to give them a firm commitment before they would waste their time on you again. As far as the Air Force goes, you've probably burned your bridges on that one.

I think that the HPSP pays more than the FAP (~$50K/yr HPSP for private school vs ~40K/yr for FAP). You would owe 5 yrs of active duty service for 4 yrs payment under the FAP (1 for 1, +1), opposed to a 1 for 1 HPSP active duty commitment. Total AD + Reserve commitment is the same for both at 8 yrs total.

 

[MoosePilot]

Yeah, he's probably pissed because he got burned on the "Fool me once..." principle. He probably saw your withdrawal from your ROTC commitment on your military entrance processing database entry, but took a chance on you thinking that the reasons for your withdrawal no longer applied. You can bet that he's added a second entry into your file about your commitment phobia, and a third offer from the Air Force will not be forthcoming.

I wouldn't count on being able to join the military as a backup plan, given your history. Sure, the military is hard up for doctors, but you've established a pattern of wasting their time by backing out when it is time to commit. Even the Army and the Navy will see your entries in the entrance processing database, and you would have to give them a firm commitment before they would waste their time on you again. As far as the Air Force goes, you've probably burned your bridges on that one.

I think that the HPSP pays more than the FAP (~$50K/yr HPSP for private school vs ~40K/yr for FAP). You would owe 5 yrs of active duty service for 4 yrs payment under the FAP (1 for 1, +1), opposed to a 1 for 1 HPSP active duty commitment. Total AD + Reserve commitment is the same for both at 8 yrs total.

I've never heard of such a database, but even if it exists I wouldn't worry. I doubt they'd turn down an MD and if they do, you'll just have to pocket your dollars without worrying about getting shot. Oh, well.

I think this is a good choice for you right now. If he has to put that kind of pressure on you, I wonder why? A good product sells itself and doesn't need a pushy salesman.

 

[virilep]

"so there's my update. thanks guys (I don't think any girls replied)."

Well, last I checked I'm a girl..but thats ok...you didnt know Glad you made a decision one way or the other.

oooooooooooopppps....

my sincere apologies

 

[virilep]

I've never heard of such a database, but even if it exists I wouldn't worry. I doubt they'd turn down an MD and if they do, you'll just have to pocket your dollars without worrying about getting shot. Oh, well.

I think this is a good choice for you right now. If he has to put that kind of pressure on you, I wonder why? A good product sells itself and doesn't need a pushy salesman.

they do have a database. but like you said, I don't think they'd so no only because at that point i'll know for sure what kind of field i'm getting into and can for sure tell them yes or no.

but, croatalus, i def feel like i made the right decision.

 

[Croatalus_atrox]

I've never heard of such a database, but even if it exists I wouldn't worry. I doubt they'd turn down an MD and if they do, you'll just have to pocket your dollars without worrying about getting shot. Oh, well.

The recruiting services have a centralized system that they use to keep track of recruits, officer and enlisted. A person gets an entry into this system whenever they initiate the process of entering military service. It is interservice, so any of the military branches can see what another service has entered under a person's file.

The recruiting services use the system for things like progress tracking, job reservation, and general information retrieval. They can also flag a person's file with entries indicating that a person is disqualified from military service in a particular branch, or that a recruit dropped out during the process. I have no doubt that the OP has two such flags on his database record now. No one will ever see it except the military, but rest assured they are there.

As far as turning down an MD, well...it's not that they would reject a qualified MD. It's that they wouldn't want to initiate the accessioning process for a third time on someone who has a history of backing out after considerable effort has been expended on his behalf. The military might be desperate for docs, but I doubt that they will waste their time again on someone who seems pretty wishy-washy about the whole military service thing.

Hell, I don't think the HPSP or the FAP is a good deal for physicians. I wouldn't encourage anyone to join the military as a physician for any reason, unless they really, really have a passion to serve. Nonetheless, I just wanted the OP to know that his idea of the military as a backup plan in case his other aspirations fall through might not be quite as solid as he thinks it is.

I think this is a good choice for you right now. If he has to put that kind of pressure on you, I wonder why? A good product sells itself and doesn't need a pushy salesman.

I don't think that the "hard sell" is coming from a desperation for AF docs. I'm pretty sure that the recruiter's motivation is not to flush all of his work with the OP down the drain. The recruiter probably took a chance on the OP accepting the HPSP, given the ROTC drop, and maybe even stuck his neck out a bit to recommend him in light of that fact. Now he gets to see that blow up in his face, with his superiors telling him "I told you so". I doubt that the recruiter had other options for recruits, but he might have. As I said in my original reply, the recruiter is probably feeling pissed because he ignored the "Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me" principle.

 

[MoosePilot]

The recruiting services have a centralized system that they use to keep track of recruits, officer and enlisted. A person gets an entry into this system whenever they initiate the process of entering military service. It is interservice, so any of the military branches can see what another service has entered under a person's file.

The recruiting services use the system for things like progress tracking, job reservation, and general information retrieval. They can also flag a person's file with entries indicating that a person is disqualified from military service in a particular branch, or that a recruit dropped out during the process. I have no doubt that the OP has two such flags on his database record now. No one will ever see it except the military, but rest assured they are there.

As far as turning down an MD, well...it's not that they would reject a qualified MD. It's that they wouldn't want to initiate the accessioning process for a third time on someone who has a history of backing out after considerable effort has been expended on his behalf. The military might be desperate for docs, but I doubt that they will waste their time again on someone who seems pretty wishy-washy about the whole military service thing.

Hell, I don't think the HPSP or the FAP is a good deal for physicians. I wouldn't encourage anyone to join the military as a physician for any reason, unless they really, really have a passion to serve. Nonetheless, I just wanted the OP to know that his idea of the military as a backup plan in case his other aspirations fall through might not be quite as solid as he thinks it is.


I don't think that the "hard sell" is coming from a desperation for AF docs. I'm pretty sure that the recruiter's motivation is not to flush all of his work with the OP down the drain. The recruiter probably took a chance on the OP accepting the HPSP, given the ROTC drop, and maybe even stuck his neck out a bit to recommend him in light of that fact. Now he gets to see that blow up in his face, with his superiors telling him "I told you so". I doubt that the recruiter had other options for recruits, but he might have. As I said in my original reply, the recruiter is probably feeling pissed because he ignored the "Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me" principle.

Wow, I'd really disagree with you. Do you have a bunch of recruiting experience you're drawing on for these conclusions?

The only thing they wasted on him was some time doing paperwork. Maybe a MEPS physical. Not much wasted. I'd be willing to put money on the fact that if he shows up with an MD and tries to do FAP, they'll initiate the paperwork all over again. What are they going to tell him? No, you can't? If he were to go to his congressman and say, "I tried to volunteer and they wouldn't take me." how do you think the recruiters could answer that congressman's staffer's question?

 

[kaikai128]

I thought about joining the reserves during undergrad, and then made the decision to wait because I did not want it to prolong my entrance into medical school. When I was going thru the process with another branch this time, they were able to pull up some of my information. For example, when I went to MEPS...they had some paperwork and copies of my ASVAB already on my file when I got there.

Regardless, nobody said anything to me about almost joining...and then waiting until a few years later to do HPSP. Note: When I told them I was going to not join the reserves, my reason was that I decided to wait to join until med school.

 

[notdeadyet]

The only thing they wasted on him was some time doing paperwork. Maybe a MEPS physical. Not much wasted. I'd be willing to put money on the fact that if he shows up with an MD and tries to do FAP, they'll initiate the paperwork all over again.

Recruiting is basically about sales. And you don't hold a grudge against the customer who doesn't buy, because he may be by to buy from you again. Will you go through the whole song and dance again? Maybe not. But you'll take his money if it's offered.

 

[virilep]

Recruiting is basically about sales. And you don't hold a grudge against the customer who doesn't buy, because he may be by to buy from you again. Will you go through the whole song and dance again? Maybe not. But you'll take his money if it's offered.

true. very true. good way to look at it. i got a phone call from my recruiter's boss today. very interesting conversation. or rather, i talked and he countered things i said. when i told him my reasoning about the financial limitations to it. he said "but why did u even start" and i said "because at that time i wasn't well educated on the financials and i didn't know what kind of finaid package i would get from my school" he didn't have anything to say. but he did say "in the end we're the people that see who is fit the Air Force and i'm glad you didn't accept the scholarship because i don't see you fit to be in my Air Force" so.... that left me with the question- why are u calling?
i had to get off the phone cuz i was just about to order my food and eat so he's supposed to call me back tomorrow at 3:30. i'll give u guys/gal the update.

 

[MoosePilot]

true. very true. good way to look at it. i got a phone call from my recruiter's boss today. very interesting conversation. or rather, i talked and he countered things i said. when i told him my reasoning about the financial limitations to it. he said "but why did u even start" and i said "because at that time i wasn't well educated on the financials and i didn't know what kind of finaid package i would get from my school" he didn't have anything to say. but he did say "in the end we're the people that see who is fit the Air Force and i'm glad you didn't accept the scholarship because i don't see you fit to be in my Air Force" so.... that left me with the question- why are u calling?
i had to get off the phone cuz i was just about to order my food and eat so he's supposed to call me back tomorrow at 3:30. i'll give u guys/gal the update.

So why is he calling you? You're not fit to be in "his" Air Force? I can see using that kind of dramatic language, but if he's going to talk like he's living in a movie, he should probably wait for a properly dramatic moment...

 

[USAF MD '05]

"in the end we're the people that see who is fit the Air Force and i'm glad you didn't accept the scholarship because i don't see you fit to be in my Air Force"

Hey Virile-
Aren't you glad we chatted?

 

[denali]

true. very true. good way to look at it. i got a phone call from my recruiter's boss today. very interesting conversation. or rather, i talked and he countered things i said. when i told him my reasoning about the financial limitations to it. he said "but why did u even start" and i said "because at that time i wasn't well educated on the financials and i didn't know what kind of finaid package i would get from my school" he didn't have anything to say. but he did say "in the end we're the people that see who is fit the Air Force and i'm glad you didn't accept the scholarship because i don't see you fit to be in my Air Force" so.... that left me with the question- why are u calling?
i had to get off the phone cuz i was just about to order my food and eat so he's supposed to call me back tomorrow at 3:30. i'll give u guys/gal the update.

Heh. These are the same type of people who get back to regular units and chew out their enlisted with the commonly heard line "Nobody held a gun to your head when you signed up." I realize all recruiters have an increasingly difficult job to do, but i gotta think this kind of attitude and pressure is counterproductive, especially when one's trying to convince a med-school acceptee with other options available.

 

[llort]

I applied and was accepted for both AF and Army. when I told the Army recruiter that I was going with the AF, he got all pissed too. His boss called me up and was like "So you want to be a Family Practice Doc?, because that is the only thing that AF docs do these days, but in the Army..."
I told him that I had already made my decision and thanks for calling, then hung up and I didnt hear anything further from them. so, just be direct and they should leave you alone.

 

[virilep]

nice. good call. I think i'm gonna make it short and sweet today. just ask him what he wants from me and his intention of calling.

 

[kch207]

Hey virilep - This isn't really pertaining to the thread of your message but I have a quick question for you. Was your application sent in for the March boards whose results were supposed to come out the 22nd of April? I only ask b/c my app was in that board and I'm anxiously awaiting some news. I'm trying to be patient, but if you have already heard then I'm definitely going to give my recruiter a call.

It sounds like you made the best decision for yourself. I'm sure it was difficult to make - way to stick to your guns.

 

[virilep]

Hey virilep - This isn't really pertaining to the thread of your message but I have a quick question for you. Was your application sent in for the March boards whose results were supposed to come out the 22nd of April? I only ask b/c my app was in that board and I'm anxiously awaiting some news. I'm trying to be patient, but if you have already heard then I'm definitely going to give my recruiter a call.

It sounds like you made the best decision for yourself. I'm sure it was difficult to make - way to stick to your guns.

yeah. that's the board. they made decisions about 10 days delayed. I hope you heard back. maybe you can make use of the money I won't be using. gluck.

 

[Croooz]

"in the end we're the people that see who is fit the Air Force and i'm glad you didn't accept the scholarship because i don't see you fit to be in my Air Force" so.... that left me with the question- why are u calling?

It's called the "takeaway". People usually want what they can't have or someone tells them they can't do or have. Who knows how many have naively taken this bait? I'm sure it has worked and caused many of those who see joining the service as being "manly" to sign up to prove something.

My words of advice are be respectful and don't burn your bridges with the military. You don't "seem" to be very decisive and may...just may...come down this road again after residency so just be aware of that. Be assertive and be respectful...always pays.

Sermon over.

 

[virilep]

It's called the "takeaway". People usually want what they can't have or someone tells them they can't do or have. Who knows how many have naively taken this bait? I'm sure it has worked and caused many of those who see joining the service as being "manly" to sign up to prove something.

My words of advice are be respectful and don't burn your bridges with the military. You don't "seem" to be very decisive and may...just may...come down this road again after residency so just be aware of that. Be assertive and be respectful...always pays.

Sermon over.

I'm usually always respectful... but wasn't getting any back. (I guess in their eyes, I didn't deserve any). but i never got the phone call and I called him. and left a message. no message back. I guess he didn't want to talk afterall. no, I usually never fall for the takeback thing... even with girls ;-). haha. but yeah. i guess case closed. i hope this thread helps ppl in my similar situation.

 

[virilep]

Wow. Looking back at this almost 20 years ago makes me realize I made the right decision. For anyone who is going through something similar, you have to go through with what you think is the best for your life. Don't do something that you feel pressured into doing. I'm a full-time Gastroenterologist in a private practice now.

For the people that replied to me, I so much appreciate your thoughts, more than you'll ever know.

 

[pgg]

This is the best 20 year necrobump ever.

 

[TheEarDoc]

moose. i trust your word. i read a lot of your posts. I agree... money is money. but ... alright. here is my main concern.. you all might think i'm a wuss for bringin this up. but it's a serious issue. what if i end up with a girl that doesn't want to move with me and everything for 4 years. and she brings that up at as something that might be a problem. i'm not only signing myself up for 4 years, but also my family. so that's another major issue i'm facing... agghhh...

It is something to think about. It takes a special kind of spouse to move as much as active duty members move, but I would recommend you never base a decision about your life/career over what a significant other thinks until after you're married. Anything up to that they can either accept it or not. I did not go into a branch straight out of school because my significant other at the time didn't want to be an active duty spouse. Guess what happened? We compromised and I went reserves and she we still ended up divorced. I'd be a LTC and close to retirement right now if I hadn't put my life and dreams aside for her.

DO what YOU want to do.

As for your recruiter and the black mark on your SSN BS? Yeah that's all smoke. I did the AF recruiting process all the way up to going to MEPS and then backed out due to my significant other. My recruiter threw the same hissy fit and threats your recruiter did. Guess what happened? NOTHING. I went back to MEPS 6 years later and the same E-7 who was the E-4 in the recruiting office at the time saw me come through a station and laughed about it. He told me his boss was pissed I bailed. Nothing is official until you sign paperwork and take the oath. Yeah it sucks to waste a recruiter's time. Do some soul searching and figure out what you want to do regardless of what the recruiter says.

 

[RE-Tired]

HPSP in 84, Army mil retired after 20, then pp stent and finally 10 more years as a civ doc in Army.
I would do it over again based only on how great Army Med and training was during my time
BUT NOW NO ******* way. When I retired in 2019 almost every Army doc was unhappy mostly because of the lack of real physician work and increased mil BS. I am proud I served, but fortunately for the most of the time I was in I was respected more for being a Dr. not an officer.
PS: this is the recruiters job; in my opinion he and his boss are unprofessional; all recruiters stretch the truth but the SSN black mark is an outright lie.
No one should do HPSP unless they want to primarily be and officer/ administrator. Once you sign that contract you are gov. property and you will be treated as such.