MD & DO How to report academic integrity violations

[deleted936470]

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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

There’s integrity, then there’s stabbing someone in the back because they didn’t follow your sense of ethics. Only one of those choices deliberately hurts someone btw

My sense of ethics? Cheating is objectively not ethical. Reporting someone for cheating after telling them in person that they shouldn’t be cheating because they will likely get reported isn’t stabbing anyone in the back.

Not reporting cheating has the potential to hurt actual patients in the future. If cheating is somehow in your ethics, you need to seriously reevaluate them. Pronto.

 

[deleted915325]

There’s integrity, then there’s stabbing someone in the back because they didn’t follow your sense of ethics. Only one of those choices deliberately hurts someone btw.

EDIT: Let me remind you these are multiple choices questions on a knowingly unproctored exam. Comparing this to lying on a surgery or whatever example is just ridiculous

Not to mention many schools are doing open note exams right now anyway

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Not to mention many schools are doing open note exams right now anyway

If your school does open note exams, that's not cheating. If your school doesn't, then what other schools do is irrelevant. Pretending that somehow justifies cheating is just mental gymnastics to make yourself (not you specifically--not accusing you of cheating, lol) feel better about doing something crappy.

 

[deleted915325]

If your school does open note exams, that's not cheating. If your school doesn't, then what other schools do is irrelevant. Pretending that somehow justifies cheating is just mental gymnastics to make yourself (not you specifically--not accusing you of cheating, lol) feel better about doing something crappy.

Yeah I understand. People have different codes of ethics and I respect that. Personally--while I wouldn't cheat like that--I just I don't see it as a large enough indiscretion to risk the person's career given the current circumstances and relatively low stakes (unless OP has witnessed a pattern of this type of behavior over the years). I can see why other's might view it differently and would report it. We all see the world through a different lens and that's not a bad thing.

 

[happydo1]

Idk I feel like you should just mind your own business especially if there’s a chance he could find out it was you who reported him. Cheating only hurts your roommate in the end and no one else really. If he’s not really learning the material then he will most definitely be screwed for boards. Your roommate cheating on a exam does not necessarily mean he will harm patients in the future .....


Also I suggest finding a new roommate regardless of what you decide to do.

 

[TAVR4life]

I personally would not want to be responsible for ruining someone’s life without first talking to them and giving them a chance to correct their mistakes. Don’t go straight to reporting someone.

 

[Mass Effect]

There’s integrity, then there’s stabbing someone in the back because they didn’t follow your sense of ethics. Only one of those choices deliberately hurts someone btw

It's not the poster's sense of ethics. It's the definition of UNethical behavior. And I strongly agree that only one deliberately hurts someone -- the cheater is that one. The cheater knows that his grade will affect the curve. The cheater knows that those who follow the rules will be worse off due to his cheating. The cheater knows that he's doing something wrong. The cheater is the one being unethical and unprofessional and frankly, deserves any repercussions that come from the administrators finding out. The OP should not be made to feel bad for having a backbone and the guts to stand up and say "you're wrong" to those trying to unethically ruin the curve for everyone else.

EDIT: Let me remind you these are multiple choices questions on a knowingly unproctored exam. Comparing this to lying on a surgery or whatever example is just ridiculous

Are you not aware that interns, residents, and attendings lie? They absolutely do. Interns are particularly notorious for saying they did things they didn't. Residents are sometimes terminated for documenting things they didn't do. aPD tells the story of firing a resident for lying about something (I think a sick day or something?). It happens more often than it should and I would bet those who think it's okay to lie as interns, residents, and attendings, thought it was okay to lie and cheat as med students.

 

[Mass Effect]

Personally--while I wouldn't cheat like that--I just I don't see it as a large enough indiscretion to risk the person's career given the current circumstances and relatively low stakes (unless OP has witnessed a pattern of this type of behavior over the years)

Yet, the roommate thought it a large enough deal that during the current circumstances and relatively low stakes, he decided to blatantly cheat. He's the one who should be blamed for ruining his own life, not the OP for turning him in.

 

[Goro]

The evidence is also that honest doctors start out as "dishonest students" if this is the bar you create. I imagine every student in the country has "cheated" on an assignment at some point in their education.

in my experience, it's only dishonest students who have this kind of mindset

 

[deleted915325]

Yet, the roommate thought it a large enough deal that during the current circumstances and relatively low stakes, he decided to blatantly cheat. He's the one who should be blamed for ruining his own life, not the OP for turning him in.

Don't be like the media and take one sentence out of context from the post to try to spin it and make a point. I wasn't placing blame on anyone. Just simply saying we all have different codes of ethics and some may see this as a larger indiscretion than others. PERSONALLY, I do not see it as a large indiscretion and would not report it because my internal code of ethics would place my roommate's future over a 0.1% difference on the class curve for a preclinical exam. I would indeed talk to him and call him out one-on-one. However, I see why others might see it differently and will refrain from shoving my opinions down other people's throat with a 99 and a half foot pole.

 

[Mass Effect]

Don't be like the media and take one sentence out of context from the post to try to spin it and make a point.

I didn't spin anything. I replied to that particular sentence in your post.

 

[Dr. Foresight]

OP, talk to them in person and ask them to stop. Make it clear that you will report them if they don't. Demonstrate some social skills here. Youre going to be faced with more difficult conversations once you're a doctor and you're not going to be able to consult SDN to figure out how to do it. If they continues to cheat, then they've made their bed.

 

[Chibucks15]

In the grand scheme of things, a preclinical exam means jack. You don’t learn medicine as much as the next several years and there is a 0.005% chance it actually affects a patient. Nobody condones cheating but I mean cmon. Again, so many more negative consequences to an isolated incident than positives.and if it’s calls and groups, it’s a lot more widespread. So destroying one kids life when there are 20 more? Not worth it. Make a general complaint and keep doing it. Isolating one person is asinine

 

[Mass Effect]

So destroying one kids life when there are 20 more? Not worth it. Make a general complaint and keep doing it. Isolating one person is asinine

Thats what I don't get. Why is the OP getting flak for "destroying one kid's life"? Why isn't the "kid" getting the blame for that? Presumably, he's a grown adult, managed to graduate high school and college and was admitted to med school. He should know the chance he's taking by cheating and, thereby, destroying his own life.

 

[slowthai]

OP, talk to them in person and ask them to stop. Make it clear that you will report them if they don't. Demonstrate some social skills here. Youre going to be faced with more difficult conversations once you're a doctor and you're not going to be able to consult SDN to figure out how to do it. If they continues to cheat, then they've made their bed.

How I imagine this conversation going:

OP: Hey man, I noticed that you've been cheating
Roommate: Uhh...yeah
OP: I think you should stop. If you don't, I'll report you
Roommate: Are you serious?
OP: Yeah
Roommate: Dude...I'll get expelled
OP: Not my problem
Roommate:
OP:
Roommate:
Roommate: *Swings*
OP: *Blocks it with special edition Pathoma pillow*

The moral of the story here is, Dr Sattar will always save you

 

[IMG69]

I'm amazed your school isn't just making it open book? In reality i'd assume at least 60+% would cheat, regardless of how noble or moral they appear. My exams been made open book and the justification is that the questions won't be searchable (yeah right) and it puts students on a fair level by minimizing the most obvious form of cheating, the only issue is students with family member physicians.

Won't USMLE work its natural selection anyway?

I'm actually amazed you'd report him, are you going to report everything you see done incorrectly on placement?

 

[samac]

I gotta say this is a tough one for me. I understand everyone’s position. I’ve always considered myself someone of moral character, but I struggled with anatomy year 1. I’m terrible at spatial reasoning and while I could do well on the practical the written tests where they described something without a picture I really struggled with. I feel like I really would have been tempted to use outside resources if this happened during my first year. I understand the desire to do the best you can and how easy it would be trying to take the test at home.

Honestly just pull on your big boy pants and talk to him about your concern. His retort is going to be everyone is doing it and messing up the curve not just him and you need to be prepared to talk about moral integrity. Good luck.

 

[V5RED]

I don't trust anyone who uses the word "snitch". Don't eff around and there will be nothing to "snitch" on. You don't get to act like you are the victim when you are the cheater.

 

[Chibucks15]

Thats what I don't get. Why is the OP getting flak for "destroying one kid's life"? Why isn't the "kid" getting the blame for that? Presumably, he's a grown adult, managed to graduate high school and college and was admitted to med school. He should know the chance he's taking by cheating and, thereby, destroying his own life.

Did I ever excuse the kid? He/she isn’t innocent at all. But in this situation, when larger groups of people are working together, why go after one person? Also who happens to live with you? That just is a recipe for a disaster in so many ways. So like I said, general complaints and then deny deny deny when the roommate gets screwed. This isn’t exactly a normal situation but man these holier than thou attitudes are a lot.

Boards will weed people out like
It always does and one person cheating on an exam won’t mess the curve that much. One preclinical course isn’t enough to earn the disdain of your entire class for several years and beyond. Self preservation

 

[V5RED]

In the grand scheme of things, a preclinical exam means jack. You don’t learn medicine as much as the next several years and there is a 0.005% chance it actually affects a patient. Nobody condones cheating but I mean cmon. Again, so many more negative consequences to an isolated incident than positives.and if it’s calls and groups, it’s a lot more widespread. So destroying one kids life when there are 20 more? Not worth it. Make a general complaint and keep doing it. Isolating one person is asinine

99% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Doesn't hurt someone? Someone willing to cheat on an exam that "means jack" is someone I would never trust to be honest on something that actually matters. If you will cheat for basically no gain, how much more will you cheat when there is a lot to gain? Get out with these mental gymnastics to justify cheating in what is supposed to be professional education.

 

[Chibucks15]

99% of statistics are made up on the spot.

Doesn't hurt someone? Someone willing to cheat on an exam that "means jack" is someone I would never trust to be honest on something that actually matters. If you will cheat for basically no gain, how much more will you cheat when there is a lot to gain? Get out with these mental gymnastics to justify cheating in what is supposed to be professional education.

Sure. Mental gymnastics got it. I’m a terrible person. I guess I’m one of few who believe in flying under the radar. The more noise ya make the more **** comes at you. Nobody in the class would trust you with anything remotely And it won’t end up pretty even just in interpersonal interactions. Ive seen it. Everyone has to bust their asses in school. There isn’t a way to cheat through it all or it will catch up to you. Also I’ve never experienced half the crap we had to learn for the PhD exams ever coming back to be useful in clinical life

So for the 4th time since people think I’m some terrible person. make general complaints not directed at the roommate. Then just go along with the complaints from him/her when they get caught. If it bothers you that much. Otherwise let karma run its course

 

[V5RED]

Sure. Mental gymnastics got it. I’m a terrible person. I guess I’m one of few who believe in flying under the radar. The more noise ya make the more **** comes at you. Nobody in the class would trust you with anything remotely And it won’t end up pretty even just in interpersonal interactions. Ive seen it. Everyone has to bust their asses in school. There isn’t a way to cheat through it all or it will catch up to you. Also I’ve never experienced half the crap we had to learn for the PhD exams ever coming back to be useful in clinical life

So for the 4th time since people think I’m some terrible person. make general complaints not directed at the roommate. Then just go along with the complaints from him/her when they get caught. If it bothers you that much. Otherwise let karma run its course

Karma isn't real. If all you said was "make a general complaint", you wouldn't get the heat you are getting. You tried to make it seem like the wronged party is the cheater and that is BS.

 

[Chibucks15]

Karma isn't real. If all you said was "make a general complaint", you wouldn't get the heat you are getting. You tried to make it seem like the wronged party is the cheater and that is BS.

Ah okay it’s a misunderstanding then. From the start I’ve said to try to avoid putting a spotlight on yourself as the narc and it isn’t worth it to do so. Especially given that the other party has access to you 24/7 after you get them expelled. There are better ways to handle it then immediately going to the professionalism committee or whatever. Either be a grown adult and talk about it, or make some general complaint until something happens.

More people cheat than the people on this thread realize apparently and (mostly) it comes out in the wash in the end. Boards, rotations, and interviews will bring it out unless you’re a superhuman liar. That was the basis of my comments. If you don’t see how much cheating actually goes on you’re incredibly naive or blind. People put in the work because if you don’t or skate though it’ll bite you in the ass (what I define as karma)

But I’m a terrible person so I guess I’ll just duck out. Good luck with whatever you decide OP

 

[Mass Effect]

Did I ever excuse the kid? He/she isn’t innocent at all. But in this situation, when larger groups of people are working together, why go after one person? Also who happens to live with you? That just is a recipe for a disaster in so many ways. So like I said, general complaints and then deny deny deny when the roommate gets screwed. This isn’t exactly a normal situation but man these holier than thou attitudes are a lot.

Boards will weed people out like
It always does and one person cheating on an exam won’t mess the curve that much. One preclinical course isn’t enough to earn the disdain of your entire class for several years and beyond. Self preservation

Saying things like "destroying the kid's life" takes the bulk of responsibility off the person who should be swimming in it -- the cheaters -- and places it on the honest person who wants to do something about it. I don't really care if the OP turns one person in or the whole lot of them. They're all guilty and it isn't the OP's fault if their lives are ruined because of it. They're old enough to know the consequences of their actions. Each and every one knows this could be a terminating offense.

 

[Icebird]

Not sure whats worse, rooming with a cheater or rooming with a snitch thats plotting on SDN

 

[Rogue42]

My only problem with this whole post is that...wait for it...the majority of the whole class is cheating, he knows it, and he only wants to report his roommate. IF OP is truly worried about the curve to the point that he is going to report his roommate for cheating, then I got news for him; it will not change the curve if the majority of every one else is doing it.

As much wrong as his roommate is doing, so is everyone else. Does that make this right? ABSOLUTELY not, and I will not advocate for it. But to get him suspended for it, seems well, daft. What if he started cheating because he knew the majority of the class was, and "by god I'm not going to let them change the curve and screw up my own GPA because the school won't do anything about it." I think every single one of us medical students, PhDs, and physicians can say that they have had those thoughts.

At the end of the day, if the curve has really been changed that much, then the school KNOWS. They know that cheating is going on. Again, does that make this right? NO. But reporting one person, when there are 50+ others seems extremely insignificant.

I think the most correct thing to do is go to faculty, and straight up tell them that "I know for a fact that the majority of the class is cheating, and I can also prove it."

At least in that scenario, the whole school gets put on notice that the administration knows they are cheating, or all / majority of the people who are cheating get dealt with.

 

[Modstopizdy]

Christopher Duntsch and the various other physicians who have killed and maimed people with incompetence would disagree with that.

So you're gonna snitch every time you see a classmate jaywalk or blow off an online inter-professionalism quiz because it's a slippery slope from there to the death of innocents? lol come the .... on, don't be a schoolmarm.

 

[deleted915325]

Its honestly just crazy to me how so many people will argue to death their opinion on a topic that has no objectively correct answer. People have a hard time dealing with ambiguity and differences in opinion... Now I wonder who is going to reply and argue for why there is an objectively right answer hmmm

 

[star.buck]

My issue with the whole thing is the OP is screwed both ways.

1. Doesn’t sound like the school has any protective measures set up for people reporting cheating, so his cheating roommate will find out and likely not be nice about it.

Even if he does report it, this is only one of many at the school cheating - so it likely won’t fix anything anyway (thus my stance of questioning if it’s worth it. I don’t stand on the side of OP being a “snitch”, or minding his own business - I’m simply questions the cost of it to the OP. The cheater is 100% in wrong, but drawing that line and telling the OP to be the high horse executioner may just send him to his own cluster of a mess. When the step exam will likely be the true judgement on the cheater - is it worth it?

2. If he doesn’t report it his own grades suffer because of the skewed curve.

There’s no winner here. Both have a lot to lose.

I’m sorry you’re stuck in this OP. I hope it works out, however you choose to handle it. Protect your valuables if you do report him, and maybe have a place lined up to stay at if you need to.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Oh, ok. In regards to the prompt I would say something on the lines of:

• Understand why they are cheating in the first place; perhaps they are in a dark spot and need halp
• If they have a good reason - advocate for them to talk to the prof to write the exam on another day; be a leader!!

There are good reasons to cheat?

OP, I’ve had to deal with cheaters at my school. If grades are now pass fail, then **** it, leave them alone. However, if grades are still percentage based, you should act. You’re not the one to make the decision whether they should be kicked out or not, you are obliged to report it though. The willingness to do unethical things to get what you want is not a good trait for a doctor.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Lol so like...I have to actually pick one and roll with it...

Idk you keep referring to "having a good reason"--is there actually a good reason tho? Like I can't think of one.

But what if they reeeeeealllly want ortho?

 

[Deecee2DO]

Personally, i would never cheat but when I see a classmate cheating that is their problem not mine. Regardless of what other people are saying let them screw themselves. Multiple choice basic science exam aren't patients and thats not your duty to report them. Just mind your own business. If this were 4 years down the line and you saw one of your colleagues inebriated before going into a surgery that is a completely different story. Honestly, this isn't your place. med students are nosy and worry too much about about other people much of the time. Let it go bro

 

[Steve_Zissou]

I personally would not want to be responsible for ruining someone’s life without first talking to them and giving them a chance to correct their mistakes. Don’t go straight to reporting someone.

Ah yes, it was not the person cheating who ruined their own life but obviously the person who did the right thing and reported it to the right people. This is a ridiculous line of ethical reasoning. “They ruined Johnny’s life by telling the cops he was the one who stole all the jewels.” No, Johnny ruined his own life by making bad decisions, and yes I understand the magnitudes are different but the same concept still applies.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Personally, i would never cheat but when I see a classmate cheating that is their problem not mine. Regardless of what other people are saying let them screw themselves. Multiple choice basic science exam aren't patients and thats not your duty to report them. Just mind your own business. If this were 4 years down the line and you saw one of your colleagues inebriated before going into a surgery that is a completely different story. Honestly, this isn't your place. med students are nosy and worry too much about about other people much of the time. Let it go bro

I’m going to disagree here. This line of thinking leads to people getting passed down the line until something catastrophic happens. The principled thing to do is to report and let the system deal with it.

As an aside, I have reported before when a classmate told me they cheated and offered me answers without any sort of solicitation on my end. I know it’s not an easy decision to make, and doubly so if it’s someone you live with.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Its honestly just crazy to me how so many people will argue to death their opinion on a topic that has no objectively correct answer. People have a hard time dealing with ambiguity and differences in opinion... Now I wonder who is going to reply and argue for why there is an objectively right answer hmmm

If you’re speaking from a morality/ethics angle, then yes there is an objectively right answer even if it’s not the easy thing to do.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

Ah yes, it was not the person cheating who ruined their own life but obviously the person who did the right thing and reported it to the right people. This is a ridiculous line of ethical reasoning. “They ruined Johnny’s life by telling the cops he was the one who stole all the jewels.” No, Johnny ruined his own life by making bad decisions, and yes I understand the magnitudes are different but the same concept still applies.

Yup, totally his fault. He should’ve known when he stepped foot into that unproctored online exam that the proctor was actually living with him the entire time! It’s a wonder why they don’t make the ABSITE or board exams unproctored, you would think doctors at that point should know a thing or two about ethics? Maybe it’s because the type of setting dictates the seriousness of transgressions, and it’s not just “he broke the rules he burns at the stake.”

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Yup, totally his fault. He should’ve known when he stepped foot into that unproctored online exam that the proctor was actually living with him the entire time! It’s a wonder why they don’t make the ABSITE or board exams unproctored, you would think doctors at that point should know a thing or two about ethics? Maybe it’s because the type of setting dictates the seriousness of transgressions, and it’s not just “he broke the rules he burns at the stake.”

2 things.
1) In response to the first part, are you arguing the cheater didn’t know it was cheating and that telling others you’re cheating puts them in a position where they’re morally obligated to report it?

2) The OP doesn’t get to decide whether this person burns at the stake. It’s above their pay grade. That’s for the school to decide and for the cheater to argue their case/appeal. OP is not Judge and Jury.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

2 things.
1) In response to the first part, are you arguing the cheater didn’t know it was cheating and that telling others you’re cheating puts them in a position where they’re morally obligated to report it?

2) The OP doesn’t get to decide whether this person burns at the stake. It’s above their pay grade. That’s for the school to decide and for the cheater to argue their case/appeal. OP is not Judge and Jury.

Behavior in a situation where there’s no apparent consequence is much different than in a situation where the consequences are clear. This is why we proctor exams. In this scenario, this is an unproctored exam where several students are in the same position. The student in question had no idea his roommate was even thinking of reporting him to the administration. Also, as an aside how is anyone even supposed to prove that the person reporting wasn’t also cheating himself? There’s no way of knowing, this is a completely unproctored exam. Calling out individual students in this situation is self-serving and does not do anyone any moral good

 

[deleted915325]

If you’re speaking from a morality/ethics angle, then yes there is an objectively right answer even if it’s not the easy thing to do.

Now say this kid was the next neurology genius and was destined to develop the cure for Alzheimer's. However, he cheated once on a meaningless exam in Woman's Health and was kicked out of school because of the "principle." From a deontological standpoint, that is ethically the correct action because the means do not justify the ends. However, if you view that scenario from a utilitarian perspective, reporting that kid was the ethically incorrect decision because the cost of the kid not graduating from med school and never curing Alzheimers was more significant than the cost of a negligible difference on a class curve.

This is an extreme example, but so is saying that cheating on a preclinical exam implies that he will be a risk to his future patients' health. If that were the case, then half of OPs class would be a risk to their patients' health since it seems like many in the class are cheating.

It's all about perspective.

 

[shulk]

So you're gonna snitch every time you see a classmate jaywalk or blow off an online inter-professionalism quiz because it's a slippery slope from there to the death of innocents? lol come the .... on, don't be a schoolmarm.

The slippery slope argument applied to doctors has a name here but I forget what it is. It is usually invoked when someone says something along the lines of "Wow, I feel sorry for your future patients!"

 

[Hotei]

Don't do anything. If he gets in trouble, he will suspect you immediately. Cheating will hurt him the long run through step exams which he will struggle with if he's not learning the material. Just focus on yourself

Agree with this. You have to look out for yourself first and outing him now could put you in harm's way. If you're dead set on reporting, wait until a year or two from now when you are no longer living together. But based on your administration's response if you wait, they may try to punish you for not reporting immediately (I know, but I've heard of weirder things...). Just forget about it and move on. Can't cheat on boards.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

Cheating in an online preclinical course is in no way remotely even close to medical malpractice cmon now that's such a reach.

Not as much of a stretch as this:

(we had a girl kill herself after she failed a remediation exam a couple years back, and suicide and homicide aren't that far apart)

Is seriously no one going to mention that OP is scrred of being murdered by his roommate because another girl committed suicide in their cohort?

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Now say this kid was the next neurology genius and was destined to develop the cure for Alzheimer's. However, he cheated once on a meaningless exam in Woman's Health and was kicked out of school because of the "principle." From a deontological standpoint, that is ethically the correct action because the means do not justify the ends. However, if you view that scenario from a utilitarian perspective, reporting that kid was the ethically incorrect decision because the cost of the kid not graduating from med school and never curing Alzheimers was more significant than the cost of a negligible difference on a class curve.

This is an extreme example, but so is saying that cheating on a preclinical exam implies that he will be a risk to his future patients' health. If that were the case, then half of OPs class would be a risk to their patients' health since it seems like many in the class are cheating.

It's all about perspective.

Sure, as a thought experiment there is ambiguity. However, in a practical application of ethics, there is not.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Behavior in a situation where there’s no apparent consequence is much different than in a situation where the consequences are clear. This is why we proctor exams. In this scenario, this is an unproctored exam where several students are in the same position. The student in question had no idea his roommate was even thinking of reporting him to the administration. Also, as an aside how is anyone even supposed to prove that the person reporting wasn’t also cheating himself? There’s no way of knowing, this is a completely unproctored exam. Calling out individual students in this situation is self-serving and does not do anyone any moral good

That would be upon OP then if they were cheating. But the point of doing the right thing is to do the right thing, not the situationally convenient thing.

 

[deleted936470]

There are good reasons to cheat?

The allotted time for this MMI prompt has expired and I must leave

 

[JoaoMoutinho]

Behavior in a situation where there’s no apparent consequence is much different than in a situation where the consequences are clear.

Why?

One of the key components of integrity is how you act when nobody is watching.

 

[MaynardSandwich11203]

Also I suggest finding a new roommate regardless of what you decide to do.

Major RT

In the grand scheme of things, a preclinical exam means jack. You don’t learn medicine as much as the next several years and there is a 0.005% chance it actually affects a patient. Nobody condones cheating but I mean cmon. Again, so many more negative consequences to an isolated incident than positives.and if it’s calls and groups, it’s a lot more widespread. So destroying one kids life when there are 20 more? Not worth it. Make a general complaint and keep doing it. Isolating one person is asinine

We (as as class) have brought this up to admin repeatedly. Asked for open-note, they said its not an effective way to learn. Asked for p/f, they said it would look bad for residency. Asked for video-proctoring (via a pay-per-exam service), they vetoed it. So it seems that general reporting isn't doing jack.

Thinking of submitting screenshots with numbers/names blanked out.

I gotta say this is a tough one for me. I understand everyone’s position. I’ve always considered myself someone of moral character, but I struggled with anatomy year 1. I’m terrible at spatial reasoning and while I could do well on the practical the written tests where they described something without a picture I really struggled with. I feel like I really would have been tempted to use outside resources if this happened during my first year. I understand the desire to do the best you can and how easy it would be trying to take the test at home.

Honestly just pull on your big boy pants and talk to him about your concern. His retort is going to be everyone is doing it and messing up the curve not just him and you need to be prepared to talk about moral integrity. Good luck.

Had a conversation about how one of our friends has to remediate because he failed by <1% and there was no curve (usually we get ~5 pts).
Response: "Cheating is the norm, jump off the good-boy bandwagon and party with us"
Can't say I didnt try...

My only problem with this whole post is that...wait for it...the majority of the whole class is cheating, he knows it, and he only wants to report his roommate. IF OP is truly worried about the curve to the point that he is going to report his roommate for cheating, then I got news for him; it will not change the curve if the majority of every one else is doing it.

As much wrong as his roommate is doing, so is everyone else. Does that make this right? ABSOLUTELY not, and I will not advocate for it. But to get him suspended for it, seems well, daft. What if he started cheating because he knew the majority of the class was, and "by god I'm not going to let them change the curve and screw up my own GPA because the school won't do anything about it." I think every single one of us medical students, PhDs, and physicians can say that they have had those thoughts.

Yea...that wasn't overlooked (its in the original post). We've made our concerns very clear to admin. Their response has been, to this point, thoroughly half-baked. Basically either give us clear evidence or stfu. So general reporting isn't doing much.

I’m sorry you’re stuck in this OP. I hope it works out, however you choose to handle it. Protect your valuables if you do report him, and maybe have a place lined up to stay at if you need to.

It could be worse, at least I'm quarantining at my parents house.

 

[Dr. Foresight]

Major RT


We (as as class) have brought this up to admin repeatedly. Asked for open-note, they said its not an effective way to learn. Asked for p/f, they said it would look bad for residency. Asked for video-proctoring (via a pay-per-exam service), they vetoed it. So it seems that general reporting isn't doing jack.

Thinking of submitting screenshots with numbers/names blanked out.

Had a conversation about how one of our friends has to remediate because he failed by <1% and there was no curve (usually we get ~5 pts).
Response: "Cheating is the norm, jump off the good-boy bandwagon and party with us"
Can't say I didnt try...

Yes but did you make it clear you would report him. This is effectively ruining someone's life. So you have to be clear, not vague.

 

[Mass Effect]

Personally, i would never cheat but when I see a classmate cheating that is their problem not mine. Regardless of what other people are saying let them screw themselves. Multiple choice basic science exam aren't patients and thats not your duty to report them. Just mind your own business. If this were 4 years down the line and you saw one of your colleagues inebriated before going into a surgery that is a completely different story. Honestly, this isn't your place. med students are nosy and worry too much about about other people much of the time. Let it go bro

Except that most med schools have a codes of conduct that includes it being your duty to report cheating. And yes, some med schools would hold the OP responsible as well if he/she knew and didn't act.

Is seriously no one going to mention that OP is scrred of being murdered by his roommate because another girl committed suicide in their cohort?

The suicide link doesn't fit. But those of us who study this sort of thing for a living know that revenge violence is not that far-fetched, though it is unlikely.