How to overcome low rank undergraduate school to top med school hurdle?

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itsallsmiles

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Hello everyone,

I’ve been searching the forums about this topic for a while. From what I read it does look like the prestige of your undergraduate university matters to top medical schools.

I know it would be a privilege to get in anywhere and I am by no means expecting to get into any top 20s. I’ll be happy to even get in! But it really is a goal of mine and I’m trying my best to make sure I’m at least competive enough to apply.

Being from a low ranking university I was wondering if there is anything I could do to help over come this hurdle (other than making sure my grades, mcat, ecs are comparable to people that go to these schools).

For example would it be really beneficial to try and do a summer research internship with one of these universities?

Is there anything I can do to help? Or should I just do my best to be competive and hope for the best?

Thanks :)

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I come from a small unranked\unknown school in the south and got interviews from great med schools (including top 20 schools) with average application. Just do your best and try to get a good MCAT score.
Your GPA is meaningless when you come from an unknown school (of course you still need to have a relatively good GPA). Your PS, MCAT and ECs will be the important part of your application.
 
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I go to a relatively unknown school in Texas and one of my fellow classmates just got an interview Stanford med. I'd say it's easier to get into a top med school from a top undergrad, however it's still possible from an unranked one.


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1) Do very well on the MCAT. If you're from a state school with a 520+ MCAT, they're not going to overlook you just because you're from a state school. 520+ is an arbitrary number - just get a high MCAT score.

2) Be as competitive as you can within the context of what resources your school has. Get involved in research activities and activities that you're passionate about.

3) Get good grades. Work hard, do well.
 
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I promise you no one here has ever heard of my school, US News doesnt even rank it except in regional universities north and even then it's a low rank. I got into Pitt and Mayo. A good applicant is a good a applicant no matter what name you have on your degree. Obviously school recognition helps, but med school is a meritocracy. Do well and you'll reap the benefits.
 
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Kill your MCAT, that's basically it. Of course, you need good EC's and a compelling story—however, these are necessary but not sufficient. You need the high MCAT, barring something fairly exceptional on your application. (Are you a marine? lookin' at you @MarineMDHopeful ;))
 
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Kill your MCAT, that's basically it. Of course, you need good EC's and a compelling story—however, these are necessary but not sufficient. You need the high MCAT, barring something fairly exceptional on your application. (Are you a marine? lookin' at you @MarineMDHopeful ;))

Haha be still my beating heart.
 
I did 9 interviews and I don't think my undergrad ever came up once. Unless you went to a pay-for-play for profit undergrad I wouldn't sweat it.
 
There were countless interviews when I had to answer the questions “I’ve never heard of your school, where is it?” And I got interviews at a few Top 20s and currently go to a Top 20. Crush the MCAT, get a high GPA, volunteer, and all that jazz. I was definitely in the minority at many interviews, but’s it’s possible.
 
The bias towards top schools is definitely present even at less prestigious universities. The reason that is might be because adcoms have a greater comfort level with the academic ability of those students since they assume that the education at those schools is more rigorous, which I don't agree with but that is beside the point. Do your best in the classes that you take, don't take any "cupcake" classes just to increase your GPA, and do your best on the MCAT because that is the most objective way to compare the academic capabilities of students from different universities. Show them that you can handle medical school with ease.
 
The bias towards top schools is definitely present even at less prestigious universities. The reason that is might be because adcoms have a greater comfort level with the academic ability of those students since they assume that the education at those schools is more rigorous, which I don't agree with but that is beside the point. Do your best in the classes that you take, don't take any "cupcake" classes just to increase your GPA, and do your best on the MCAT because that is the most objective way to compare the academic capabilities of students from different universities. Show them that you can handle medical school with ease.
Also, people who get into the top schools have hundreds, if not even 1000s of hours of clinical experience and/or service to others in nonclinical settings. Plus research productivity.
 
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I come from an unknown school. Got accepted to a T25 program so far. Let’s are Mcat, gpa, research imo. Good story and everything else will add to it.
 
I promise you no one here has ever heard of my school, US News doesnt even rank it except in regional universities north and even then it's a low rank. I got into Pitt and Mayo. A good applicant is a good a applicant no matter what name you have on your degree. Obviously school recognition helps, but med school is a meritocracy. Do well and you'll reap the benefits.
It's not entirely meritocratic, but if you can get the grades and the MCAT score it'll make up for it

Just don't go to like Trump University or take online classes at University of North Korea and you'll be aight
 
The bias towards top schools is definitely present even at less prestigious universities. The reason that is might be because adcoms have a greater comfort level with the academic ability of those students since they assume that the education at those schools is more rigorous, which I don't agree with but that is beside the point. Do your best in the classes that you take, don't take any "cupcake" classes just to increase your GPA, and do your best on the MCAT because that is the most objective way to compare the academic capabilities of students from different universities. Show them that you can handle medical school with ease.

This advice would have been good in March.
 
If a school doesn't want me despite my stats and ECs simply cause I went to an unranked school for financial reasons, that's fine. I don't want that school either.

Not a fan of elitism.
 
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If a school doesn't want me despite my stats and ECs simply cause I went to an unranked school for financial reasons, that's fine. I don't want that school either.

Not a fan of elitism.

People need to learn to play the game. Otherwise enjoy your family medicine residency in North Dakota.
 
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People need to learn to play the game. Otherwise enjoy your family medicine residency in North Dakota.
What people need to do is not assume things about those they don't know. Who are you to tell me how my finances determine how I "play the game?"

Not showing a derisive attitude towards much needed primary care specialities in underserved areas goes a long way as well.

Look at a match list for some lower-ranked state schools and tell me you don't see people getting into top residencies. Do your research.

Edit: I see that you appear to be a physician, so I retract the "do your research" comment. I respect that you have years of experience on me in terms of medical training, but your implication that studying at lower ranked med school = only being able to get undesirable residency is not borne out by the data. Regardless, I have no intention of further highjacking this thread, but I would be happy to discuss over DM.
 
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What people need to do is not assume things about those they don't know. Who are you to tell me how my finances determine how I "play the game?"

Not showing a derisive attitude towards much needed primary care specialities in underserved areas goes a long way as well.

Wow, you want from zero to sixty over a relatively benign (and accurate) comment.
 
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Let's try to keep the discussion cordial, shall we? If a response seems inappropriate, please report it rather than escalating it into an argument that derails the thread.
 
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Let's try to keep the discussion cordial, shall we? If you find someone's response inappropriate, please report it rather than escalating it into an argument that derails the thread.
I apologize. @Instatewaiter yes please to the coloring book. It's boring in the village.
 
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Git gud
 
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Also, people who get into the top schools have hundreds, if not even 1000s of hours of clinical experience and/or service to others in nonclinical settings. Plus research productivity.
3.8+, 523+, something like Peace Corps, Teach for America, or military service, and a first-author publication - preferably several - and an applicant is competitive for most top-20 schools.
 
3.8+, 523+, something like Peace Corps, Teach for America, or military service, and a first-author publication - preferably several - and an applicant is competitive for most top-20 schools.
What percentage of people at top schools do you think have first author publications? Feinberg for example reports around 50% of its matriculants having ANY publications or presentations. I am willing to bet most of those are co-author publications and posters.

Let's not get carried away here.
 
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3.8+, 523+, something like Peace Corps, Teach for America, or military service, and a first-author publication - preferably several - and an applicant is competitive for most top-20 schools.

Not to mention, there are probably fewer than 250 students with a 3.8+ and 523+ each year. There are ~3,000 freshmen spots among the T20s.

You don't need a 3.8+/523+ to be competitive.
 
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I know it would be a privilege to get in anywhere and I am by no means expecting to get into any top 20s. I’ll be happy to even get in! But it really is a goal of mine and I’m trying my best to make sure I’m at least competive enough to apply.

Being from a low ranking university I was wondering if there is anything I could do to help over come this hurdle (other than making sure my grades, mcat, ecs are comparable to people that go to these schools).

For example would it be really beneficial to try and do a summer research internship with one of these universities?


Your school won’t be a detriment. Do well on the MCAT and that will tell the story. You don’t mention a GPA so we’ll just assume that you have that under control, as well as profs who’ll write strong Lors, and have a resume with medically related ECs, volunteering, shadowing, research, etc. One thing that keeps getting mentioned is that volunteering/community involvement should involve helping people who are different from yourself.

Really, it’s your residency placement that can have the bigger influence on your future. Instead of aiming for a top 20, aim for a top 50. The residency program directors at the best programs seem to be most familiar with those schools, particularly if they have MD/PhD programs. But even if you don’t get into a top 50 med school, you still won’t be shut out of the better/best residency programs as long as you perform well at med school, do very well on Step 1 and 2, take advantage of whatever research opportunities available at your med school, and get strong LORs.
 
I went to a known but not "top tier" university and got a full tuition scholarship to a medical school that was, at the time, T10. I was accepted to another T10 and a couple of other T20 schools. It's certainly possible.
 
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What percentage of people at top schools do you think have first author publications? Feinberg for example reports around 50% of its matriculants having ANY publications or presentations. I am willing to bet most of those are co-author publications and posters.

Let's not get carried away here.

Agree. And probably the ones with first person pubs have grad degrees
 
I went to a known but not "top tier" university and got a full tuition scholarship to a medical school that was, at the time, T10. I was accepted to another T10 and a couple of other T20 schools. It's certainly possible.

I’ve been following you for years! Congrats on your successes and becoming chief resident! :bow:
 
Going to a small, no-name college for undergrad can compromise your chances at an elite medical school, but it certainly won't kill them altogether. Small colleges generally have the advantage of smaller classes and professors who might know you well, thereby being able to honestly write compelling LORs. It is also proportionately easier for students at small colleges to be stand-outs -- a big fish in a small pond so to speak.

A 'garden-variety' excellent student at a small no-name college is absolutely competitive for an upper-mid-tier medical school from which s/he is then competitive for top residencies if s/he excels in medical school as well.

A student at a small no-name college who is more than "just garden-variety excellent" -- someone who truly stands out and has a top MCAT score as well as unusually strong ECs and a back-story is competitive at any medical school already.

The bar is higher for East Podunk College compared to MIT undergrad, but it can absolutely be done. (Plus attending East Podunk does actually add a bit of a diversity angle...)
 
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By "more than garden variety excellent" are we talking about "alfalfa farmer with 3.8/523 from Podunk College who joined the Peace Corps" or are we talking something closer to "3.8/523 that became a Navy SEAL officer and won the Navy Cross in Afghanistan"?
 
Serving in the Peace Corps in addition to a 3.8 / 523 is plenty "more than garden variety excellent" --
 
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Serving in the Peace Corps in addition to a 3.8 / 523 is plenty "more than garden variety excellent" --
A good, perhaps even stellar set of achievements - but it's not necessary to have world-class accomplishments or to make the front page of the New York Times or win a MacArthur Genius Grant.
 
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"Safety-net" non-flagship state school grad now at a "top 3" (or however USNews has been juggling) med school. Echo a lot of what people said in this thread.

Now that I have some experience with behind-the-curtain workings of a high-tier med school, I would say the things I (personally) would recommend are:

1. Solid MCAT – this is as closest to a Great Equalizer you can get. To be frank, getting a 4.0 at my alma mater was not the same as getting a 4.0 at UCLA. Classes were not a walk in the park, but the curve was less severe. A high MCAT may help validate a high GPA from a school adcoms have little experience with. Back in ye olden days I scored what was ~523 and I think that may have helped assuage doubts about my academic pedigree.

2. Some distinguishing endeavour – doesn't have to require a gap year or years, but engage in something you are passionate about. Show significant dedication, show significant growth, and (for tippy-top schools) show significant success. I was lucky to live in a big city that had a ton of sweet stuff cooking in both research and community service outlets. Successful research at a prestigious neighbouring institution: 1) probably gave my app more "street cred" and 2) let me delve into larger projects with more "wow factor" than were available at my undergrad. Students at higher-tier schools, in addition to typically being very smart folks, are further supported by having higher-tier opportunities available. We had people at my UG garner great acceptances with just internal service/research work, but sometimes looking beyond the small school bubble – and demonstrating standout performance in a respected organization, international arena, or governmental agency – will prove that you can run with the big dogs.

--- and once you have that ---

3. Apply broadly. The process is still a wild ride for even the most solid of apps. You never know what places may bite. I'm ultimately attending a school I threw on at last minute because my pre-health advisor was like: "you'll never know."

4. If you have impostor syndrome, wrangle with it now. I was leery about applying to top med schools because I never thought they'd give me a second glance. When I got to med school, I was slower to jump at opportunities because I thought my peers were more intelligent and I was coming in as a "big fish in a small pool." This was a counterproductive mentality and I have been kicking myself for not diving in feet first. I still struggle with impostor syndrome – and even my Ivy League peers have confessed to it as well – but I wish I had sought help with it sooner.

5. Remember/respect your roots. I learned a lot from my UG. The education I got there was solid and our pre-health advisor was a diamond-in-the-rough. The avg admission stats there were GPA ~3.1, SAT ~35th percentile, so the folks I worked with typically had much different backgrounds and challenges than most of my current med school peers. (And there were plenty I bet could have succeeded at top med schools, but had way tougher life circumstances than I!). Sure it would have been great if my UG had more resources and pizzaz or whatnot, but at the end of the day it was a US college education. It's somewhat off-putting when I ask "Why Soybean State?" and you're like "Well I could have gone to Harvard but..." You're a smart cookie. That's why you're at the interview. You don't need to gauge your worth with previous college acceptances; tell me about what assets/circumstances made it the best option and the awesome stuff you did post-matriculation at Soybean State. [Close to fam? Cool! Cheapest tuition? Sweet! Liked the vibe? Awesome! Unique opportunities? Tell me more! Only place you were accepted to? Not a problem – you're a college grad all the same! Maybe this round you'll get to choose!]

I will say making the jump from a low-tier UG to a top-tier med school was one of the single best things I could have done for my career goals. When talking to peers from lower-funded med schools, the opportunities here are staggering and the "activation energy" needed to join impactful ventures or meet field leaders is lower. The simple privilege of proximity is real. Obviously med school is not a cakewalk regardless of institution, but the wealth of opportunities and support available makes me feel stupidly lucky to have been able to come here. It can be a kind of a daunting path to be a podunk alum applying in a sea of glittery grads, but anecdotally my med school has given me equal treatment and I would encourage anyone considering this route to go ahead and take the plunge.
 
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Hey @hellanutella, nice to see you posting. Are you a MS3 now? Any ideas yet on what field you are looking at?

I have to tell you, I will be thinking about you for the rest of my life. ;) Every single time I pick up my jar of Nutella, I immediately think hellanutella! :D
 
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I went to a low tier state school (their acceptance rate is almost 95% for reference) and it has only come up positively at my interviews, 1 was at a T10.

The biggest thing is having a personality in my opinion, not just in person, but on paper too. Be someone they want to talk to and I don’t think it’ll hold you back.
 
Show significant dedication, show significant growth, and (for tippy-top schools) show significant success.

Are we talking about something like Peace Corps/Teach for America, or are we talking about something more extraordinary, like being a decorated combat veteran, MacArthur Genius Grant winner, or having a first-author Nature paper? What does "significant success" mean? A former career as a Green Beret officer? Starting an international nonprofit that gets featured on 60 Minutes?
 
Are we talking about something like Peace Corps/Teach for America, or are we talking about something more extraordinary, like being a decorated combat veteran, MacArthur Genius Grant winner, or having a first-author Nature paper? What does "significant success" mean? A former career as a Green Beret officer? Starting an international nonprofit that gets featured on 60 Minutes?
:bang:

It means different things to different people. ADCOMs are people. What is impressive to one person isn't impressive to another.
 
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Publications refer to ANY paper, presentation or poster in/at ANY journal, meeting, conference or symposium. This can include ANY campus or department symposium, student conference, or similar. Overall, aggregate applicants perhaps 25% have ANY publication or poster. Under 5% have any major publication or poster. And with few exceptions in the research schools with a research heavy applicant, adcoms really dont care about first authorship.
LizzyM reports that at her ionospheric school:
The proportion of top applicants who have a publication or a thesis is relatively low -- maybe <20% if you include undergrad thesis.

Publications? Less than 5% have anything in a reputable peer reviewed journal.


Most applicants have neither a thesis or a publication after 2 years of lab work during undergrad.
 
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:bang:

It means different things to different people. ADCOMs are people. What is impressive to one person isn't impressive to another.
Medal of Honor or Nobel Peace Prize: impresses 100 percent of adcoms. Can't think of an adcom member that sees a guy with the Medal of Honor and is like "Pfft. I've seen more impressive ECs."
 
Medal of Honor or Nobel Peace Prize: impresses 100 percent of adcoms. Can't think of an adcom member that sees a guy with the Medal of Honor and is like "Pfft. I've seen more impressive ECs."
If you understand what impresses 100% of ADCOMs then why are you asking?

The things you are talking about have been done by such a small percentage of applicants that it is ridiculous to think of them as factors to make someone competitive for a "top 20"

In other threads you are advising people to do things that are either incredibly difficult and/or shouldn't be done with the sole goal of getting into med school. Hence the head-beating emoji.
 
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I went to a known but not "top tier" university and got a full tuition scholarship to a medical school that was, at the time, T10. I was accepted to another T10 and a couple of other T20 schools. It's certainly possible.
What kind of insane ECs/stats/life story did you have? Military service? Jaw-droppingly stellar publication record? Maybe an Olympic medal or two?
 
What kind of insane ECs/stats/life story did you have? Military service? Jaw-droppingly stellar publication record? Maybe an Olympic medal or two?

doesn't take all that. A good MCAT score, well-rounded application, and glowing letters will get you very far. Emphasis on the well-rounded application and glowing letters as good MCAT scores are just the ticket to get through the door.
 
If you graduated from Caltech with a 3.6 and you had Nobel Laureates writing you glowing LORs, that definitely helps a lot. Your flair says you're a rocket scientist; did you work for NASA?
 
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