How screwed am I for this disorderly conduct charge?

[justamedstudent411]

M2 here, looking for some advice/input because SDN can be brutally honest and I think that’s what I need right now. In college, I received a citation for disorderly conduct (not a felony, not a misdemeanor) due to having a small amount of marijuana in my possession. It was a stupid thing that I did, completely my fault and I haven’t touched MJ since this. I got very interested in anesthesia during M1 through shadowing and reading, did some research in the field after M1, and I’m now wondering if this will be prohibitive of matching into a field with such ready access to powerful/addictive substances. I spoke to a lawyer who strongly advised me to report this on ERAS when asked “if there’s anything in your past that could limit my abilities to get a license” because she’s seen people get burned for not listing stuff like this. It will be 6 years old by the time I’m applying for residency. Would this alone prevent me from matching into anesthesia? Thank for for reading this and for your input!

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[avidrapper]

Try to have it removed. If you can’t, then own up to it. Do well on step and everything else is secondary.

 

[sevoflurane]

Not a misdemeanor or felony? Not sure you have to disclose it. You are living in a time where you can literally buy it at a store for non-medical purposes.

Stay out of trouble and focus on your studies.

 

[deleted162650]

 

[ZzzPlz]

Try to have it removed. If you can’t, then own up to it. Do well on step and everything else is secondary.

Jesus I just glimpsed at your username and had to do a double take

 

[Twiggidy]

Jesus I just glimpsed at your username and had to do a double take

Two P’s bruv

 

[Twiggidy]

M2 here, looking for some advice/input because SDN can be brutally honest and I think that’s what I need right now. In college, I received a citation for disorderly conduct (not a felony, not a misdemeanor) due to having a small amount of marijuana in my possession. It was a stupid thing that I did, completely my fault and I haven’t touched MJ since this. I got very interested in anesthesia during M1 through shadowing and reading, did some research in the field after M1, and I’m now wondering if this will be prohibitive of matching into a field with such ready access to powerful/addictive substances. I spoke to a lawyer who strongly advised me to report this on ERAS when asked “if there’s anything in your past that could limit my abilities to get a license” because she’s seen people get burned for not listing stuff like this. It will be 6 years old by the time I’m applying for residency. Would this alone prevent me from matching into anesthesia? Thank for for reading this and for your input!

Not a misdemeanor.....not a felony.....never happened. As said above study hard, do well on the step, don’t be a jerk, and you’ll make in this field as well as in life. Also, regular exercise....

 

[justamedstudent411]

Not a misdemeanor.....not a felony.....never happened. As said above study hard, do well on the step, don’t be a jerk, and you’ll make in this field as well as in life. Also, regular exercise....

My dilemma is that there is a question on ERAS which asks, “Is there anything in your past history that would limit your ability to be licensed or would limit your ability to receive hospital privileges?” I was advised to disclose it in response to this because it will show up on the in-depth background checks involved in licensure/seen by PDs, which could come back to bite me after matching if I didn’t disclose it

 

[ZzzPlz]

My dilemma is that there is a question on ERAS which asks, “Is there anything in your past history that would limit your ability to be licensed or would limit your ability to receive hospital privileges?” I was advised to disclose it in response to this because it will show up on the in-depth background checks involved in licensure/seen by PDs, which could come back to bite me after matching if I didn’t disclose it

A quick conversation with the lawyer would be well worth the money

 

[Consigliere]

Get that sh_it expunged dude. It'll cost a few bucks but in the unlikely event some licensing boards does a deep dive, it won't exist. Why make your life harder? You've already chosen to do anesthesia so your life will be difficult enough without being a Boy Scout.

 

[Sublimazing]

So it would be in your best interest to contact a lawyer to see if you can have it expunged. Having said that, even charges that have been expunged can show up on a VA background check...though it likely wouldn’t prohibit you from getting privileges.

 

[justamedstudent411]

Having said that, even charges that have been expunged can show up on a VA background check...

I think that’s the part that I’m most worried about... from what I’ve heard from people who have recently matched, expunged charges are fair game for obtaining medical licensure (not sure if this is true, just what I’ve heard). Nonetheless, I really appreciate all the input so far

 

[deleted875186]

I would contact a lawyer.
I’m no ezpert, but I don’t think PDs will run backgrounds on applicants before matching. Once your matched, you’re fine, program will probably back you if there is some issue with getting your initial medical license.

 

[Aether2000]

Run a background check on yourself to see what comes up....

 

[Sublimazing]

I think that’s the part that I’m most worried about... from what I’ve heard from people who have recently matched, expunged charges are fair game for obtaining medical licensure (not sure if this is true, just what I’ve heard). Nonetheless, I really appreciate all the input so far

Yeah I know a guy who was never charged, and had his arrest expunged...it didn’t show up on any background check except one VA (not 2 other VAs apparently)

 

[killerleaf]

Also, some medical boards have been known to turn up expunged records.

 

[justamedstudent411]

Yeah it's looking like this warrants further discussion with a lawyer I guess. Let's just say that if I had to disclose this... would the "drug-related" nature of my citation keep me out of anesthesia?

 

[FiremedicMike]

A couple of thoughts
1. I'm not familiar with any states that don't classify disorderly conduct as a misdemeanor. But there are crimes that have been moved from misdemeanor with a degree (M1-M5) to "unclassified misdemeanor". It doesn't mean it's not a misdemeanor, just that it it doesn't have a degree assigned so the min/max fines and sentencing is different.. Long story short, unclassified misdemeanors are still on your record.
2. Short of throwing your weed in the gutter and letting you drive off, that cop did you a huge favor by charging possession as disorderly conduct, like huge..
3. Call a lawyer

 

[Gas you down]

Is it a class A or B misdemeanor?
Only Class A or B’s are reported to the FBI for background checks.
Class C is not

 

[Gern Blansten]

I will tell you that I have seen a handful of people get into serious trouble with the medical board for answering no to these types of questions. The medical board in my state has a pretty good background check that will turn up expunged items, as does the VA as mentioned. The medical board really dislikes people who lie far more than they care about a years old small amount of marijuana charge. I have seen them tie up applications in red tape for months or years over the dishonesty issue. They really really hate being deceived.

In addition, if it turns up that you have been untruthful on your application through ERAS, the program can release you without fault from a spot you matched into. I have seen that happen twice and heard about it several other times. Since most residencies are attached to a VA, chances are that you're going to be getting that background check when you start. If it shows up, it will be up to your program director as to what to do with the new information that was not previously disclosed.

On the other issue of how it will impact your application, it will. You will likely get fewer invites but, if you are an otherwise competitive candidate, you can still get a spot. If you are 4th quartile with less than 215 step scores, then this may be too much to overcome.
It is a tough situation, but I don't want you to think that, just because it is "expunged," it will never turn up again. There is a good chance it will. Having not mentioned it previously will not be a good look for the residency program or the state medical board.

Some here may disagree with me, but I did not want you to only hear one perspective. I usually advise honesty, which is not always the comfortable approach. But living in fear of getting kicked out of a residency is uncomfortable as well.

Best of luck.

 

[justamedstudent411]

I will tell you that I have seen a handful of people get into serious trouble with the medical board for answering no to these types of questions. The medical board in my state has a pretty good background check that will turn up expunged items, as does the VA as mentioned. The medical board really dislikes people who lie far more than they care about a years old small amount of marijuana charge. I have seen them tie up applications in red tape for months or years over the dishonesty issue. They really really hate being deceived.

In addition, if it turns up that you have been untruthful on your application through ERAS, the program can release you without fault from a spot you matched into. I have seen that happen twice and heard about it several other times. Since most residencies are attached to a VA, chances are that you're going to be getting that background check when you start. If it shows up, it will be up to your program director as to what to do with the new information that was not previously disclosed.

On the other issue of how it will impact your application, it will. You will likely get fewer invites but, if you are an otherwise competitive candidate, you can still get a spot. If you are 4th quartile with less than 215 step scores, then this may be too much to overcome.
It is a tough situation, but I don't want you to think that, just because it is "expunged," it will never turn up again. There is a good chance it will. Having not mentioned it previously will not be a good look for the residency program or the state medical board.

Some here may disagree with me, but I did not want you to only hear one perspective. I usually advise honesty, which is not always the comfortable approach. But living in fear of getting kicked out of a residency is uncomfortable as well.

Best of luck.

Thanks for this response; I have already spoken to a lawyer about this, who said basically this same thing (err on the side of disclosure, because the caliber of background checks that I have to undergo will be robust and this will probably show up somewhere, even though it is already expunged - she told me she has also seen applicants get burned for not disclosing silly little things). I was mostly concerned about how it will affect my chances of matching, so thank you for weighing in on that.

This is probably a stupid question, but I ultimately would love to stay at my home program for residency. Is it worth talking to someone about this at my school now (I have a mentor who is not the PD, but helps med students get their anesthesia application materials together, schedule rotations, etc.) or should I just move on with my life and keep my nose clean and let them find out about it when I apply?

Thanks for all of the help so far, everyone

 

[deleted126335]

disorderly conduct is not necessarily a misdemeanor. In some situations it could be considered a civil infraction. Kin to a speeding ticket. I suspect it varies from state to state.

 

[Gern Blansten]

If it will be on your application, best to address it head on.

 

[surgndoc]

Certainly get it expunged. Then run a background check on yourself and make a decision following that. Does the offense say "disorderly conduct" or possession of a controlled substance? I believe background checks just disclose the name/nature of the offense, not exactly the entire police report.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

By all means do what you can to clear your record. Anesthesiology has one of the highest rates of physician addiction due to the easy access anesthesiologist enjoy. Some programs might be wary.

 

[Twiggidy]

Why do I feel like some people who have don’t much worse have medical licenses and hospital privileges? Maybe I’m wrong.

 

[nimbus]

Why do I feel like some people who have don’t much worse have medical licenses and hospital privileges? Maybe I’m wrong.

You’re not wrong. I remember the smell of weed wafting through my medical school dorm back in the day.

 

[Twiggidy]

You’re not wrong. I remember the smell of weed wafting through my medical school dorm back in the day.

I feel like I’m Chappelle in Half Baked when I see issues like this “Four years for weed. Damn!”

 

[deleted171991]

1. I would get it expunged, especially if you can get it done without a lawyer.
2. I would find out EXACTLY whether it was a misdemeanor or not.
3. I would answer truthfully THE QUESTION they ask, on any application. If they ask only about misdemeanors and felonies, and it's neither, no need to disclose. If they ask about any crime except for traffic tickets, I would mention it, expunged or not. Especially since it's minor; most people will laugh at it, especially in states where marijuana is legal. It's just not worth lying about, IMO. You'll get caught, sooner or later, as long as some institutions have access even to expunged records.

 

[pjl]

I just approved credentials for a guy who got drunk, stole a street sign, and punched a cop while underage.
He was honest about it, and has no other events on his record, no issue. We were all young, invincible, and varying degrees of stupid at some point. Most never got caught with consequences.

We also pulled credentials from a guy who got a DUI and answered No to those questions, then lied about it when confronted.

Be honest about it. I would talk to the lawyer, and figure out exactly how it appears on your record first though.

More importantly, I would encourage you to eliminate the chance of a second offense. That will definitely hinder your chances.

 

[2010houston]

Agree with FFP above. 1- try to get expunged. 2- answer the question asked. Don’t lie, at all costs. 3- if additionally asked “anything that may limit credentials in the future....” you can truthfully reply with something on the order of “disorderly conduct charge during college, has been expunged from record” and I doubt this would substantially limit your matching. Might it hurt you somewhere? Potentially. Will it keep you from matching? Very very likely not. Good luck.

 

[neutro]

Going through your mentor may not be a bad idea. Feel them out first. Maybe they will talk to the anesthesia PD and I know out of match has gone away but crazier things have happened. If your local program is not very competitive, and you want to go there and they know your personally - maybe both of you will rank each other high and you may end up there. After you finish residency, there will be another layer of professional training that will distance you from the offense.

 

[Planktonmd]

Do you know that it is there in your criminal record? Why don't you first check your record at the court house where this took place?
Usually if there is no conviction of a crime that should not be on your record.

 

[DM27]

Without getting into much detail, I had a stupid (but real) arrest when I was in college. I am not aware if I was ultimately charged with anything, but I know it went "on my record" and I had to go to court to get it expunged. I have since gone through medical, school, residency, a government job, and an academic job, and it has never come up nor have I ever disclosed it.

Totally anecdotal evidence, but that is my experience.

 

[Fart Daddy Smooth]

Not a physician, but I was arrested for petty theft at the age of 13. Never charged with anything, just taken to the station and then released to my mom. 14 years later, it came up when I was applying for my RN license. It never crossed my mind to mention this on my application (truthfully, I had forgotten about it) but these state licensing boards dig deep. Way deeper than your typical background check.

Mention it, talk about how you were a dumb kid who made a mistake and that you have learned from the error of your ways, etc. It'll look worse if you don't report something that ends up coming up on your background check. Good luck.

 

[periopdoc]

Mention it, and explain it. Way better than constantly worrying it will come back to bite you. If it comes back to bite you, it will be in a very unpleasant way. It is very unlikely to derail your application in any way, unless you omit it and they find out.

 

[Devildoc85]

Without getting into much detail, I had a stupid (but real) arrest when I was in college. I am not aware if I was ultimately charged with anything, but I know it went "on my record" and I had to go to court to get it expunged. I have since gone through medical, school, residency, a government job, and an academic job, and it has never come up nor have I ever disclosed it.

Totally anecdotal evidence, but that is my experience.

Hello,

I am in similar situation and was wondering what state your expungement was so I can compare statutes. Thanks

 

[mdawarre]

Kind of a necro bump but do not lie. Many people have events that occurred when they were young and dumb. If you lie and they find out: Your application will be denied. You will have to answer "YES" for the rest of your life to the question: "Have you ever had an application for medical staff privileges rejected" and/or "Have you ever withdrawn an application for medical staff privileges." This will look far worse for you because of your lack of candor. If you are hired and they find out, you could be fired. If you are fired as a resident, you probably will not be rehired anywhere. Do not lie.

 

[anes121508]

M2 here, looking for some advice/input because SDN can be brutally honest and I think that’s what I need right now. In college, I received a citation for disorderly conduct (not a felony, not a misdemeanor) due to having a small amount of marijuana in my possession. It was a stupid thing that I did, completely my fault and I haven’t touched MJ since this. I got very interested in anesthesia during M1 through shadowing and reading, did some research in the field after M1, and I’m now wondering if this will be prohibitive of matching into a field with such ready access to powerful/addictive substances. I spoke to a lawyer who strongly advised me to report this on ERAS when asked “if there’s anything in your past that could limit my abilities to get a license” because she’s seen people get burned for not listing stuff like this. It will be 6 years old by the time I’m applying for residency. Would this alone prevent me from matching into anesthesia? Thank for for reading this and for your input!

Was in your shoes except I was drunk rather than high when I was being a ***** in college. Disorderly conduct, charged and guilty. My lawyer gave me same advice as yours. I never got it expunged. Have always been honest about it and have to write up the whole explanation ect anytime I started somewhere new or got credentialed. Pain in the Butt.You’ll sleep better at night being honest about it. Maybe you won’t get into a program because of it, but you will likely get in somewhere assuming your app is competitive. In my opinion, that makes it not worth lying about and all of the hassle of worrying. I always figured if a place is so uptight that one dumb mistake way in the past is a make or break for them, then I probably don’t belong there.

be honest, listen to the lawyer, squash any issues you have lingering

 

[2Fast2Des]

Any program or place that will turn away an applicant for marijuana use should question their own thinking. Especially when it is legalized.

 

[GassYous]

Any program or place that will turn away an applicant for marijuana use should question their own thinking. Especially when it is legalized.

If they only knew how many people actually use...

 

[nimbus]

Pain director at my old program is an advocate for medical marijuana. I don’t think he’s wrong.

 

[deleted162650]

Pain director at my old program is an advocate for medical marijuana. I don’t think he’s wrong.

His findings were pretty interesting. Low dose THC is an effective analgesic. High dose THC is actually hyperalgesic.

 

[deleted126335]

If they only knew how many people actually use...

Don't ask. Don't tell.

 

[2Fast2Des]

If they only knew how many people actually use...

I would be shocked if they didn't know... Any med student knows how much their classmates get down with mj. I'm sure there is an image to be maintained that a program doesn't want law breakers\degenerates, but any doc who can't admit they know someone who dabbled, atleast as students is lying

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

I wouldn't sweat it. We live in a time where people are calling for the abolishment of police and prison and are bending over backwards to pay your bail if you are arrested for burning down a business. In your response to any questions use key buzz words like "peaceful protest," "social awareness," and "Anit-Trump Resistance," and you'll receive a free pass for your prior issue.