"How Private Equity Is Ruining American Health Care."

[efle]

I stand corrected. Weird. I disagree with calling them physicians.

Nobody tell him about NDs

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[ACSurgeon]

Truthfully, a lot of doctors aren't good at anything but medicine.

Truthfully some aren’t even good at that!

 

[Steve_Zissou]

In Illinois chiropractors are considered physicians.

Illinois chiropractors...pffff. I hate Illinois chiropractors.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

The training is wide and variable, and the degree of things missed regularly is dangerous to people's health. Speaking from personal family experience.

Dental school has far greater standards for admissions as well. I'm not sure how many total O.D. schools there are but when you have other far better trained individuals in the same field that actually manage medical conditions (insert gen ophtho and all sub specialties) you cannot be called doctor in my eyes.

Dentists do a full blown residency, I don't believe optometrists have that kind of extensive training.

Dentists don't have to do residency. After dental school you can go straight out and practice.

 

[FutureSurgical]

Tell that to the people grinding 60 hour weeks in meaningless corporate America making 60k to have the chance to make 6 figures one day, everything is relative

Yeah having been out of college for a while before starting med school made me realize a lot of people here romanticize corporate/finance/engineering. There are quite a bit of people who make a lot of money. There are many, many more who don’t. For one person I knew who made 6 figures out of college, 20 people didn’t. They live comfortably, salary-wise. But they, at best, tolerate their job. It’s an ends to a mean. But they have the mentality of “I just want to fund my free time” - meaning, they are driven by what they do outside of work, rather than the work they do. Finance people aren't wolves on Wall Street. Engineers aren’t building things all day; they are mostly signing papers, attending meetings, and making sure their projects don’t **** up, because their names are on the dotted line and could lose their job if **** happens.

Disclaimer: I know exceptions exist. But they’re just that: exceptions. If you’re going to be at the top of your field, you have to deal with bull crap bureaucracy and managing people. Simple as that.

 

[Aheadbyacentury]

they refuse to draw labs and run the IVs and dump it on your residents, you can explain to them that "man, it isn't rocket science, just go get it done, we can't control them. Don't be such a bitch about it."

I would welcome this. Maybe then we could get a control of how many labs are ordered. The more blood that is drawn, and more tests ordered the more money whoever analyzes it makes. If you make it too easy to order, then guess what, they will be ordered. Bring down the costs of healthcare. Make residents draw the blood, start the ivs and program the alaris pump. Fire more nurses, hire more medical assistants and nursing assistants. They are just like nurses anyway. Actually, better.

 

[Aheadbyacentury]

Yeah having been out of college for a while before starting med school made me realize a lot of people here romanticize corporate/finance/engineering. There are quite a bit of people who make a lot of money. There are many, many more who don’t. For one person I knew who made 6 figures out of college, 20 people didn’t. They live comfortably, salary-wise. But they, at best, tolerate their job. It’s an ends to a mean. But they have the mentality of “I just want to fund my free time” - meaning, they are driven by what they do outside of work, rather than the work they do. Finance people aren't wolves on Wall Street. Engineers aren’t building things all day; they are mostly signing papers, attending meetings, and making sure their projects don’t **** up, because their names are on the dotted line and could lose their job if **** happens.

Disclaimer: I know exceptions exist. But they’re just that: exceptions. If you’re going to be at the top of your field, you have to deal with bull crap bureaucracy and managing people. Simple as that.

medicine is the same to the nth power.

 

[PikminOC]

Yeah having been out of college for a while before starting med school made me realize a lot of people here romanticize corporate/finance/engineering. There are quite a bit of people who make a lot of money. There are many, many more who don’t. For one person I knew who made 6 figures out of college, 20 people didn’t. They live comfortably, salary-wise. But they, at best, tolerate their job. It’s an ends to a mean. But they have the mentality of “I just want to fund my free time” - meaning, they are driven by what they do outside of work, rather than the work they do. Finance people aren't wolves on Wall Street. Engineers aren’t building things all day; they are mostly signing papers, attending meetings, and making sure their projects don’t **** up, because their names are on the dotted line and could lose their job if **** happens.

Disclaimer: I know exceptions exist. But they’re just that: exceptions. If you’re going to be at the top of your field, you have to deal with bull crap bureaucracy and managing people. Simple as that.

I am not romanticizing those fields. There are alot of other jobs out there....

 

[Captain_Falcon]

Dentists don't have to do residency. After dental school you can go straight out and practice.

Good to know. Any idea how many graduates actually forego residency though?

 

[Splenda88]

Good to know. Any idea how many graduates actually forego residency though?

I was told it's around 35-40%.

 

[Captain_Falcon]

I was told it's around 35-40%.

Wow that's a good chunk

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I was told it's around 35-40%.

Other way around, that's the percent that do post-grad training.

https://www.adea.org/uploadedFiles/ADEA/Content_Conversion_Final/deansbriefing/2019-20_ADEA_Snapshot_of_Dental_Education.pdf

Page 7

 

[tri99]

The Top 1 Percent: What Jobs Do They Have?

Explore the occupations and industries of the nation's wealthiest households.

archive.nytimes.com

Ik it doesnt take into account opportunity cost / other aspects of a job one finds valuable, but just for reference.

The Economic Value of College Majors - CEW Georgetown

The Economic Value of College Majors finds that the top-paying college majors earn $3.4 million more than the lowest-paying majors over a lifetime.

cew.georgetown.edu

 

[deleted1095841]

How does selling your practice to a PE firm compare to working at Kaiser or some other organization?

 

[Crayola227]

How does selling your practice to a PE firm compare to working at Kaiser or some other organization?

The way Kaiser works they don't want to push unnecessary procedures, but also conversely when they are insuring AND treating their own workers they also don't want to deny preventative care and end up with higher healthcare costs down the road.

It's an example of single payer system in some ways.(when insuring their own workers), like the VA, and so it theoretically has different upsides/downsides regarding how patients are treated compared to PE. Not sure it's a good comparison.

As far as how it is to work there, I don't know. Anything where the physician is captured as an employee with little power for negotiation in a free market it won't be pretty for them, UK NHS case in point. But that isn't the case with VA or Kaiser employees because we don't have a true one payer system (and pointing out why that can be bad).

That said, my understanding with the VA is that despite lower pay there are significant benefits, and it offers similar benefits to PE as far as not having to worry about the business end if your practice.

I would like to know more about how working for Kaiser is. I've heard very mixed things. Same with VA although I think with VA the balance is that most feel it's good for physicians and patients, although can be very inefficient and frustrating govt red tape.

 

[PikminOC]

 

[Crayola227]

View attachment 337709

Can't make it out well enough to read.

 

[PikminOC]

Can't make it out well enough to read.

Lmgtfy

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Lmgtfy

Lol the first thing that comes up is a reddit thread where they did the math and show that the info graphic is wrong.



But seriously, I have to ask, does anyone actually believe that teachers make more than physicians over a lifetime? All my high school teachers drove older cars, lived in modest homes, and generally lived pretty humble lives. My first mentor was a plastic surgeon who owned a house that won a bunch of awards because of its architecture. He drove a brand new, very nice BMW and went on multiple international vacations with his family every year.

 

[Lem0nz]

Lol the first thing that comes up is a reddit thread where they did the math and show that the info graphic is wrong.



But seriously, I have to ask, does anyone actually believe that teachers make more than physicians over a lifetime? All my high school teachers drove older cars, lived in modest homes, and generally lived pretty humble lives. My first mentor was a plastic surgeon who owned a house that won a bunch of awards because of its architecture. He drove a brand new, very nice BMW and went on multiple international vacations with his family every year.

Was married to a teacher with two teacher parents and this infographic was full bull****.

They generally do more OK than is advertised in the news but not well by any stretch of the imagination. The upfront first 10-15 years are trash awful. That said, many retire into some sort of pension and that can be relatively early (like 45-50) and then they can get rehired in the same system doing the same job while still collecting the pension, but now at a salary where their value is that of a 20 year employee. That can often get them above 100k a year and let them live comfortably. But it is a long road to get there for a short slide.

 

[Rekt]

Was married to a teacher with two teacher parents and this infographic was full bull****.

They generally do more OK than is advertised in the news but not well by any stretch of the imagination. The upfront first 10-15 years are trash awful. That said, many retire into some sort of pension and that can be relatively early (like 45-50) and then they can get rehired in the same system doing the same job while still collecting the pension, but now at a salary where their value is that of a 20 year employee. That can often get them above 100k a year and let them live comfortably. But it is a long road to get there for a short slide.

Then you should know that it 100% depends on which school they work at and the surrounding SES.

 

[tri99]

Lol the first thing that comes up is a reddit thread where they did the math and show that the info graphic is wrong.



But seriously, I have to ask, does anyone actually believe that teachers make more than physicians over a lifetime? All my high school teachers drove older cars, lived in modest homes, and generally lived pretty humble lives. My first mentor was a plastic surgeon who owned a house that won a bunch of awards because of its architecture. He drove a brand new, very nice BMW and went on multiple international vacations with his family every year.

Lol this reddit thread derives the hourly salary for doctors using the same formula with numbers from other sources and lands on $53.76. Only a $20 / hour difference from the original infographic.

 

[Lem0nz]

Then you should know that it 100% depends on which school they work at and the surrounding SES.

There are SO MANY comparatively low paying teacher jobs compared to a handful of somewhat better paying private teaching jobs that I feel incredibly comfortable generalizing the statement that I did.

Much like doctors and lawyers and engineers, sure, even teachers have a 0.1% income bracket. That probably tops out at 150k. 😂

 

[deleted1081396]

As bad as it may sound to a lot of people here, I pivoted away from clinical and chose to pursue an advanced degree (MD, PharmD, PhD) for the sole purpose of going into the biopharma finance space. Hopefully we see more MDs, etc., make a similar pivot because the comp is much more lucrative. Medicine is changing quick, don’t get caught on the wrong side hating yourself and your life for choosing the wrong pursuit. Leverage your advanced degree!

Can you do this with just an MD/DO? If so, how? Does an MBA help a lot?

 

[Redpancreas]

Then you should know that it 100% depends on which school they work at and the surrounding SES.

What do you mean by it? I don't think a teacher working for a private, for profit school capitalizing off all the benefits in an upscale area of NYC or San Francisco is making a physician's salary.

 

[Lem0nz]

What do you mean by it? I don't think a teacher working for a private, for profit school capitalizing off all the benefits in an upscale area of NYC or San Francisco is making a physician's salary or as much over the course of their career under pretty much any scenario.

Fixed.

 

[Redpancreas]

Can you do this with just an MD/DO? If so, how? Does an MBA help a lot?

There's a lot more than this but this is widely talked about:

MD/DO-> Corporate/Industry

How to get into the tech field from medical school?

Hi all. Rising MS3 here. I've always been interested in tech (self-proclaimed Apple fanboy here) and I've always had a fascination with tech companies and their health initiatives, Apple being the first that comes to mind. That's the general direction I'm looking to get involved with coming out...

forums.studentdoctor.net

MD in the Pharmaceutical Industry

Hi! I will be starting medical school this upcoming summer and was curious about MD's in the Pharmaceutical Industry. Three questions: 1) Is it realistic to practice clinically (even if it's one or two days a week) AND also be involved in drug development research? 2) If so, what steps would...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Looking into part time or full time non clinical work after residency. Which specialty is better?

Hey all, I am really considering looking into non clinical work as a physician, whether it be for pharma, biotech, but tbh 1) I don’t really know where to start looking about the types of jobs out there. Are there any good resources? 2) which specialty would offer me the most opportunities...

forums.studentdoctor.net

MD/DO-> Clin Research

Skip Residency and go into Clinical Research?

Hi, Current MS3 at a top 20 MD school. Have always done well in my classes and loved learning medicine. Did some minimal research in my first two years of school. Then took a year off to do research at the NIH and was very productive and loved it. Came back to school and after being on the...

forums.studentdoctor.net

MD-> Unsure:

Jobs for physicians in the pharmaceutical industry - Look for Zebras

By far one of the most popular non-clinical career choices for physicians is a job in the pharmaceutical sector. Pharmaceutical companies need physicians to help them in various areas including designing research studies, evaluating drug safety, and communicating their message to other physicians.

lookforzebras.com

Value Added to MBA

sdn medical student corporate - Google Search

www.google.com

 

[PikminOC]

Lol the first thing that comes up is a reddit thread where they did the math and show that the info graphic is wrong.



But seriously, I have to ask, does anyone actually believe that teachers make more than physicians over a lifetime? All my high school teachers drove older cars, lived in modest homes, and generally lived pretty humble lives. My first mentor was a plastic surgeon who owned a house that won a bunch of awards because of its architecture. He drove a brand new, very nice BMW and went on multiple international vacations with his family every year.

The point of the picture is to at least show the number of years of training and opportunity cost of school. It isnt perfect but its a good pic. The level of responsibility in medicine is very different from anything else as well. As an attending, I worry about things alot more than I did as a resident or med student.