How often do DO students that match internal med go on to sub-specialize?

[pdqpdq]

I am a incoming DO student and I'm aware that the majority of osteopathic medical students go into primary care, specifically internal med. Do most of these internal med matches go on to sub-specialize? Are DO students generally competitive enough to sub-specialize into nephrology, cardiology, GI, ID, pulmonology, etc..

Thanks in advance.

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[DOcJo]

I am a incoming DO student and I'm aware that the majority of osteopathic medical students go into primary care, specifically internal med. Do most of these internal med matches go on to sub-specialize? Are DO students generally competitive enough to sub-specialize into nephrology, cardiology, GI, ID, pulmonology, etc..

Thanks in advance.

I know a DO who is a well-respected, incredible cardiothoracic surgeon. You can do whatever you want if you work hard enough.


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[ipressurexd]

From what I have gleaned from sdn and Reddit, DOs have a harder time getting really competitive IM residencies, but that does not mean we have 0 chance of subspecializing in cardio or GI. Just need better boards, lots, grades, research, etc etc.

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[sab3156]

I know a DO who is a well-respected, incredible cardiothoracic surgeon. You can do whatever you want if you work hard enough.


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Don't give DO school administration talking points as advice to someone looking for real information.

 

[DO2015CA]

You can subspecialize. It will depend on your residency program rather than your degree. Your degree will affect your residency placement but you will be able to subspecialize. It may not be cardio, PCCM, GI depending on which IM program you get. But you will not be trapped in General IM if you hate it and are flexible with like endo, rheum, etc.

 

[nimbus]

In my area, coastal Southern California, DO internal medicine subspecialists tend to be rare. However, I do work with a superb cardiac electrophysiologist who happens to be a DO.

 

[Kardio]

I am a incoming DO student and I'm aware that the majority of osteopathic medical students go into primary care, specifically internal med. Do most of these internal med matches go on to sub-specialize? Are DO students generally competitive enough to sub-specialize into nephrology, cardiology, GI, ID, pulmonology, etc..

Thanks in advance.

Don’t know the total fraction who attempt to specialize from IM. Of those who attempt to specialize, here are their outcomes.

More details found at: https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2018-Charting-Outcomes-SMS.pdf

Note:
The “US Graduates” column = USMD

 

[sab3156]

Don’t know the total fraction who attempt to specialize from IM. Of those who attempt to specialize, here are their outcomes.View attachment 296141

More details found at: https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2018-Charting-Outcomes-SMS.pdf

Note:
The “US Graduates” column = USMD

Looks like FMGs have it better in some subspecialties than DOs, lol.

 

[deleted859689]

How does surgical critical care compare to normal CCM/PCC like procedure wise, managing the ICU etc?

 

[DOcJo]

Don't give DO school administration talking points as advice to someone looking for real information.

Excuse me? I was responding to person asking the question, if you have a problem say your piece and leave me comment alone.

Like others are saying, a lot of DO programs are geared towards primary care. Anyone can sub specialize beyond a residency if they chose. It’s not about the degree, it’s about board scores. DO is way too often looked down upon when some of the best physicians I know are DOs. If an OMS chooses they can take the USMLE to be accepted into a more competitive residency.


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[Kardio]

Looks like FMGs have it better in some subspecialties than DOs.

Very Sab-like observation.

I didn’t do a % match breakdown but between Cards, GI, Heme/Onc and Pulm/Crit - only GI has non-US IMGs @ >50% and DOs @ <50%.

Keep in mind OP, this chart doesn’t include DOs specializing in AOA fellowships (i.e., there were more than 47 DOs entering cardiology fellowship in 2018). By the next edition of this document, when the AOA and ACGME are fully integrated, we’ll have the complete picture.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

How does surgical critical care compare to normal CCM/PCC like procedure wise, managing the ICU etc?

Wide variety in trauma surgery practice. Trauma surgery is becoming more SICU management and less operative. Trauma trained surgeons can run ICU's.

 

[Ho0v-man]

It’s hard for anyone to definitely say given the recent step changes. Prior to this, the advice would be to try to get a >220 score on step 1 and be open geographically and you’ll likely match a low tier academic program or solid community IM program providing you have no red flags and decent LORs. Your goals are achievable from there for fellowship if you hustle. Just keep in mind, the rat race will continue.

No one can say for certain, but my guess is likely this won’t change much except shift focus to step 2.

The things that keep you out of fellowships are primarily related to what keeps you out of the residency that helps you get that fellowship. To name a few:

1) Not taking step exams
2) Below average comlex scores
3) Going down on scores between level/step1 and level/step2 (might not be an issue since it’s p/f now).
4) Failing board exams
5) Failing courses/remediating a year

The biggest offender in my anecdotal n=1 experience is not being geographically flexible. Like people will literally rank a sweatshop in a “desirable” city over a good program in “flyover” country.

 

[PA_dud3]

Don’t know the total fraction who attempt to specialize from IM. Of those who attempt to specialize, here are their outcomes.View attachment 296141

More details found at: https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2018-Charting-Outcomes-SMS.pdf

Note:
The “US Graduates” column = USMD

Wow, out of 35 DO Nephrology applicants only 2 didn't match. That is actually really cool.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Wow, out of 35 DO Nephrology applicants only 2 didn't match. That is actually really cool.

It’s probably the least competitive fellowship.

 

[hungrydoc710]

Yes - you can sub specialize. You best take the Step exams and show your metal against MD's... oh wait your class is losing that edge bc of P/F.

P/F exam is bad news for DO's !

But hey at least its even worse news for Carribean riff raff.

 

[DO_or_Die]

I feel like now research/EC's/LOR are going to be much more important, but doable. The mid tier MD students I have talked to feel like this is a good thing with USMLE going p/f but will only know with time, especially for DO's.

 

[Goro]

As a public service, over lunchtime I looked over our graduation list and checked twelve random grads from 2008-2016 who went into to see where they went.
My cutoff for '16 was that I figured they needed to do 3 years of residency before hitting a fellowship. If I'm wrong about this, let me know and I'll include a few more recent people.

Of those 12, three did fellowships in Cards