Hospital chain declares bankruptcy

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

amyl

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
2,415
Reaction score
1,200

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Another example of PE corporate raiders looting the healthcare system and leaving the public with the rotting carcass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Another example of PE corporate raiders looting the healthcare system and leaving the public with the rotting carcass.
But wait…..their CEO used to be a heart surgeon. I thought “physician executives” were the best way to ensure that the focus is on quality instead of profiteering. 🙄🤷🏻‍♂️
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 9 users
But wait…..their CEO used to be a heart surgeon. I thought “physician executives” were the best way to ensure that the focus is on quality instead of profiteering. 🙄🤷🏻‍♂️
Guy decided to turn to the Dark Side. He and the other top executives took hundreds of millions in profit and ran the hospitals into the ground. In Massachusetts, a woman died shortly after childbirth because they sent her to VIR for embolization but the VIR equipment had been repossessed due to failure of payment and a 2 million dollar outstanding balance owed to the company (Cook I believe). Also, it looks really bad when the CEO gets almost a 100 million dollar payout and buys a 40 million dollar yacht in the few years leading up to this implosion.

Let’s not kid anyone here, the people at the top of this corporation need to go to jail. This is nothing but a fraudulent shell game where Medical Properties Trust and Steward devised a strategy to exchange assets and hide liability while siphoning off hundreds of millions of dollars. Unfortunately what is likely to happen is the government will be forced to step in and bail out these hospitals and patients will suffer in the meantime.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 15 users
But wait…..their CEO used to be a heart surgeon. I thought “physician executives” were the best way to ensure that the focus is on quality instead of profiteering. 🙄🤷🏻‍♂️

I wonder if HCA will gobble it up.



“HCA Healthcare founders Dr. Thomas Frist Sr., Dr. Thomas Frist Jr. and Jack Massey envisioned a healthcare company with the scale, resources and clinical expertise to provide care focused on the patient.

In 1968, they formed Hospital Corporation of America (HCA). At that time, HCA Healthcare was one of the first hospital companies in the United States.”

Physicians are greedy too. Maybe not as greedy as people who work in finance, but greedier than the average Joe.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
And who is a potential buyer for some of those hospitals? Optum.
This to me is the most significant part of the story. The insurance companies have gotten too big and are ripping both patients and the rest of the industry off. Hopefully they attract some heat from the government otherwise I don’t see how the system doesn’t become a giant for-profit monopoly.
 
  • Like
  • Dislike
Reactions: 1 users
But wait…..their CEO used to be a heart surgeon. I thought “physician executives” were the best way to ensure that the focus is on quality instead of profiteering. 🙄🤷🏻‍♂️

If I’ve learned anything between working at PPs and hospitals, it’s that there is very little “espirit d’ corps” in this profession. Doctors generally won’t hesitate to screw other doctors for a few bucks, if they can get away with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users

“HCA Healthcare founders Dr. Thomas Frist Sr., Dr. Thomas Frist Jr. and Jack Massey envisioned a healthcare company with the scale, resources and clinical expertise to provide care focused on the patient.

In 1968, they formed Hospital Corporation of America (HCA). At that time, HCA Healthcare was one of the first hospital companies in the United States.”

Physicians are greedy too. Maybe not as greedy as people who work in finance, but greedier than the average Joe.
Are business minded people are greedy.

They take risk. Their reward is infinite wealth if they hit it big. There is very little downside once u make it big. U set aside the real new money (like the plotkin game stop guy I always mention). Take even bigger risks to make even more.

Issue is the USA does more punish deb for failed businesses.

So a hospital chain getting bigger and greedier isn’t any different
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

“HCA Healthcare founders Dr. Thomas Frist Sr., Dr. Thomas Frist Jr. and Jack Massey envisioned a healthcare company with the scale, resources and clinical expertise to provide care focused on the patient.

In 1968, they formed Hospital Corporation of America (HCA). At that time, HCA Healthcare was one of the first hospital companies in the United States.”

Physicians are greedy too. Maybe not as greedy as people who work in finance, but greedier than the average Joe.

If I’ve learned anything between working at PPs and hospitals, it’s that there is very little “espirit d’ corps” in this profession. Doctors generally won’t hesitate to screw other doctors for a few bucks, if they can get away with it.

I definitely have a different experience. Maybe its because I work in salaried environment (low salary) . Some docs are definitely greedy but there are a lot that go out of their way to help others/patients. I definitely think average Joe is greedier. And of course finance, lawyers are far greedier.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I definitely have a different experience. Maybe its because I work in salaried environment (low salary) . Some docs are definitely greedy but there are a lot that go out of their way to help others/patients. I definitely think average Joe is greedier. And of course finance, lawyers are far greedier.

I think a lot of docs will go out of their way to help patients. However (especially in PPs) when it comes down to dollars and cents, I’ve seen lots and lots of greed. Rich “senior partners” trying to scalp everyone else, etc etc. Look at the AMA RUC for another great example of this. How we behave in the exam room and how we behave when debating how the cookie crumbles is very different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
I think a lot of docs will go out of their way to help patients. However (especially in PPs) when it comes down to dollars and cents, I’ve seen lots and lots of greed. Rich “senior partners” trying to scalp everyone else, etc etc. Look at the AMA RUC for another great example of this. How we behave in the exam room and how we behave when debating how the cookie crumbles is very different.

definitely not saying every doc isnt greedy. but im just saying i dont think we are more greedy than avg joe. im sure many avg ppl would do that as well if placed in that opportunity.

but thats just my opinion
 
Sounds to me like there is more than enough to launch a criminal investigation. Would that be public knowledge at this point though? Seems like the whole state of Massachusetts wants some serious scalps here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Ok, I’m officially obsessed with this company. I kid you not, these guys are bandits, and they are the tip pf the iceberg. Curious that Amyl posted this, because Welsh Carson is doing the same thing with Medical Properties Trust that Steward is doing. Private equity is a destroyer of companies, it’s just a fact. I know some of this material is challenging to digest, but I think we would all be better served to understand how it all works. This is a good primer. Quackonomics
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
  • Haha
Reactions: 3 users
Is it really that bad to run a hospital system into the ground if you come out of it with a $40m yacht?
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Ok, I’m officially obsessed with this company. I kid you not, these guys are bandits, and they are the tip pf the iceberg. Curious that Amyl posted this, because Welsh Carson is doing the same thing with Medical Properties Trust that Steward is doing. Private equity is a destroyer of companies, it’s just a fact. I know some of this material is challenging to digest, but I think we would all be better served to understand how it all works. This is a good primer. Quackonomics

And so it continues:

“Somehow, no one involved in the looting of the Santa Ana hospital or the terror campaign on Fitzgibbons was ever charged with anything illegal. (To the contrary, the same year they spent framing the infectious disease physician, Chaudhuri and Brothman invited a camera crew to film a reality show about travel nurses inside the facility.) Nor, needless to say, was the mastermind of Reddy’s kwashiorkor scam, or the cop who all but admitted under oath to having planted a bag of drugs in Fitzgibbons’s car. Medical Properties Trust is still listed on the New York Stock Exchange, and though its stock has lost nearly three-quarters of its value since the beginning of 2022, CEO Aldag made $16 million last year, just a 6 percent drop from the year earlier, bringing his post-COVID compensation to a cool $50 million. Steward remains the largest for-profit hospital network in the country, and Cerberus remains a fearsome private equity titan, on the verge of booking an astonishing $16 billion profit if and when regulators approve the acquisition of its portfolio company Albertsons by the supermarket giant Kroger. And last year, Dan Brothman landed a new CEO gig back home in Orange County working for Prem Reddy at Garden Grove Hospital Medical Center, which MPT has owned since 2008.”
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
And so it continues:

“Somehow, no one involved in the looting of the Santa Ana hospital or the terror campaign on Fitzgibbons was ever charged with anything illegal. (To the contrary, the same year they spent framing the infectious disease physician, Chaudhuri and Brothman invited a camera crew to film a reality show about travel nurses inside the facility.) Nor, needless to say, was the mastermind of Reddy’s kwashiorkor scam, or the cop who all but admitted under oath to having planted a bag of drugs in Fitzgibbons’s car. Medical Properties Trust is still listed on the New York Stock Exchange, and though its stock has lost nearly three-quarters of its value since the beginning of 2022, CEO Aldag made $16 million last year, just a 6 percent drop from the year earlier, bringing his post-COVID compensation to a cool $50 million. Steward remains the largest for-profit hospital network in the country, and Cerberus remains a fearsome private equity titan, on the verge of booking an astonishing $16 billion profit if and when regulators approve the acquisition of its portfolio company Albertsons by the supermarket giant Kroger. And last year, Dan Brothman landed a new CEO gig back home in Orange County working for Prem Reddy at Garden Grove Hospital Medical Center, which MPT has owned since 2008.”
It’s psychopathic, it’s like they know that in some cases, these hospitals are the only ones in the middle of nowhere, and they just don’t care. I’m not a believer in the supernatural, but if there were a naturalistic definition of evil, these guys would fit the bill.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
This to me is the most significant part of the story. The insurance companies have gotten too big and are ripping both patients and the rest of the industry off. Hopefully they attract some heat from the government otherwise I don’t see how the system doesn’t become a giant for-profit monopoly.
How is that the most significant part of the story? That Optum “might” buy not Steward Health, but Steward Health Medical Group, that’s not the whole company. Insurance companies are certainly problematic, but what we are witnessing here is outright theft and the ruination of communities across America at the hand of private equity. I noticed that Amyl liked your post, which just tells me, we must be looking at the world from a completely different lens. I hate to ask, but do you work for a PE backed ASC?
 
How is that the most significant part of the story? That Optum “might” buy not Steward Health, but Steward Health Medical Group, that’s not the whole company. Insurance companies are certainly problematic, but what we are witnessing here is outright theft and the ruination of communities across America at the hand of private equity. I noticed that Amyl liked your post, which just tells me, we must be looking at the world from a completely different lens. I hate to ask, but do you work for a PE backed ASC?
I do not work for PE. My point is that PE pillaging American companies of all stripes is well documented. What is relatively new is the ruins of those groups being gobbled into large hospital and insurer monopolies with questionable motives of their own. Perhaps this is all part of the plan?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I do not work for PE. My point is that PE pillaging American companies of all stripes is well documented. What is relatively new is the ruins of those groups being gobbled into large hospital and insurer monopolies with questionable motives of their own. Perhaps this is all part of the plan?
Fair enough, maybe a good point. I am not sure that the pillaging of health care by PE is as widely understood as you suggest however. We have quite a few physicians on this board who believe PE is the David and against the Insurance Goliath, which is just insane. Like Upton once said "It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it". But to your larger point, is PE in cahoots with Big Insurance to destroy health care in America? Kind of doubt it. Seems like these PE guys are just about money, nothing more. You could make the same case against Big Insurance I suppose, but like I said, I am always suspicious when folks like Amyl like to make the devil out to be Big Insurance while defending poor PE, and it's not just her, it's quite a few USAP executives on SDN who seem to make this point a lot.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
"It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it"
This quote underlies a ton of the cognitive dissonance, misbeliefs, falsehoods, and hand-waving that physicians engage in to justify their role within the healthcare financial enterprise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
This quote underlies a ton of the cognitive dissonance, misbeliefs, falsehoods, and hand-waving that physicians engage in to justify their role within the healthcare financial enterprise.

How so?

I think most of us realize that we are getting screwed. And most analyses of the healthcare cost pie place physician compensation at something like 2-5% of the total. Meaning that every physician in America could work for free, and it would barely move the needle on healthcare costs.

Care to explain yourself?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
How so?

I think most of us realize that we are getting screwed. And most analyses of the healthcare cost pie place physician compensation at something like 2-5% of the total. Meaning that every physician in America could work for free, and it would barely move the needle on healthcare costs.

Care to explain yourself?
Yes - I'm thinking of this on more of a systems level. I think a lot of us realize that in some personal sense that we're being screwed, but we don't all understand how.

All of our medical training induces and requires us to ignore a lot of things that are obviously wrong or sketchy, to our detriment. The amount of business and legal education in med school and residency is near zero - most of my trainees have no idea at all how anesthesia is billed or what the differences between medicare or medicaid are... and those are minimal basics. The ASA and most other professional organizations have their head in the sand and ignore a lot of the big issues. IMO the biggest issue is that there is a great wealth transfer going from patients and the government into the pockets of private equity - and this is done using our medical licenses as their main conduit. Yet we have no control over the system and don't understand the system. The ASA certainly isn't making any moves in any of these arenas...

And this is all by convenient design. The system works because we're happy enough with $150-$400/hr to not ask too many questions or get too bothered (just as we were taught to do). For example those USAP guys are all hand waving explaining how they just needed some extra cash to keep the business going, that it's all "physician run" so it's fine, and that private equity doesn't influence them in any way. Yet a modicum of common sense would suggest otherwise (not to mention an FTC lawsuit also highlights this). Why would a PE firm invest in anything if not to make money, after all!?

So a lot of our salaries depend on us not asking too many questions and handwaving to justify things that are just clearly wrong or nonsensical.

But heck it's not like I'm going to combat private equity personally. I need to get a paycheck just like the rest of us. So I'll just keep working while lamenting the fact that the patients are being bankrupted, PE firms are making bank, de la Torre got a 40 million dollar yacht, big insurance is making record profits, and they're all using our license as a conduit. All of this happens in the richest country in the world with the highest healthcare spending per capita with relatively horrible healthcare outcomes.

And here we are debating whether the country club initiation fee is 20K vs 100K or whether locums should pay $2000/day for beeper call, while this kid can't get a necessary tonsillectomy because her mom working three jobs with crummy insurance can't afford the crazy up-front $2000 that a United healthcare owned ASC is demanding from her. I think there's a high degree of cognitive dissonance required to function within the current system.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 16 users
Fair enough, maybe a good point. I am not sure that the pillaging of health care by PE is as widely understood as you suggest however. We have quite a few physicians on this board who believe PE is the David and against the Insurance Goliath, which is just insane. Like Upton once said "It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it". But to your larger point, is PE in cahoots with Big Insurance to destroy health care in America? Kind of doubt it. Seems like these PE guys are just about money, nothing more. You could make the same case against Big Insurance I suppose, but like I said, I am always suspicious when folks like Amyl like to make the devil out to be Big Insurance while defending poor PE, and it's not just her, it's quite a few USAP executives on SDN who seem to make this point a lot.
PE and insurance aren’t trying to destroy the American healthcare system, but they can see the writing on the wall. Single payer is coming eventually, maybe it’s 5 years maybe it’s 25, but it’s inevitable. They’re both just trying to extract as much capital as possible from the system as it currently exists while they still can.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
PE and insurance aren’t trying to destroy the American healthcare system, but they can see the writing on the wall. Single payer is coming eventually, maybe it’s 5 years maybe it’s 25, but it’s inevitable. They’re both just trying to extract as much capital as possible from the system as it currently exists while they still can.
In the process, accelerating the destruction of American healthcare
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Capitalistic greed accelerates the destruction of just about everything. In any field. We are just the latest in a long line of this. The reason why they succeed, and we fail is because most of us are unwilling to do the types of unethical things that are required to be “financial success“ in the way that these private equity firms view it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
In the process, accelerating the destruction of American healthcare
And by the way, they don’t care. At all. Being that they are rich, they basically feel like they will be able to get whatever they want no matter what in the future anyway, so who cares about how they do it.
 
Last edited:
And by the way, they don’t care. At all. Being that they are rich, they basically feel like you’ll be able to get whatever they want no matter what in the future anyway, so who cares about how they do it.
Their responsibility is to the board of directors and shareholders, full stop. Wrongful death lawsuits are just a line item on the budget.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I heard $40m yacht is a technological wonder and it isn’t diesel powered but rather runs similar to Monsters Inc on the tears of patients and their families
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
Capitalistic greed accelerates the destruction of just about everything. In any field. We are just the latest in a long line of this. The reason why they succeed, and we fail is because most of us are unwilling to do the types of unethical things that are required to be “financial success“ in the way that these private equity firms view it.
Please define "capitalistic greed." Does avarice not occur in other economic systems?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
This might be the appropriate thread.

IMG_1604.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Need to show it per capita


Since Switzerland has a population of around 9 million, it seems to have the highest number of billionaires per capita. About 1/85,000 Swiss are billionaires compared to around 1/400,000 Americans. Singapore is up there too at around 1/130,000. It’s good to be a financial center.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Please define "capitalistic greed." Does avarice not occur in other economic systems?
Of course it does, it really depends on how a society views the role of capital. We just let it go hog wild, and basically allow it to dictate our collective priorities to a large extent.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I bet a number of the hospitals will outright close. The one in Houston (St Joes) has been on the verge of closing for decades. It's also a very old facility in not the greatest location.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I bet a number of the hospitals will outright close. The one in Houston (St Joes) has been on the verge of closing for decades. It's also a very old facility in not the greatest location.
Who runs St. Joes these days? PE?
 
Top