Hey Algos, tell me about stem cells...

[knoxdoc]

I have a symptomatic posterior annular tear at L4/5. I'm pushing the rehab but I'm curious to know what kind of results you have seen with intradiscal stem cells. I figured I'd ask in the forum so we could all learn a little something. Thanks.

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[Aether2000]

I have not done them intradiscal. I have some patients that have had them done but were under an experimental protocol IRB study that allowed more than minimal manipulation of stem cells and they were concentrated. Yet, even with this, their results were not as impressive as I would have thought.....so far minimal improvement.

 

[SSdoc33]

I have a symptomatic posterior annular tear at L4/5. I'm pushing the rehab but I'm curious to know what kind of results you have seen with intradiscal stem cells. I figured I'd ask in the forum so we could all learn a little something. Thanks.

if you give me 5 grand, ill inject them into your 4-5. dont expect it to work, though....

 

[Doctodd]

a better question would be to ask algos what he would do if it was his back and his pain, or a family member.

Murphy and Lutz both have about 85% success rate to 3 years now.....Murphy used bmac.....Lutz PRP alone. My patients have done well......everything was exhausted so they were miserable for more than a year before it was done.

 

[lobelsteve]

a better question would be to ask algos what he would do if it was his back and his pain, or a family member.

Murphy and Lutz both have about 85% success rate to 3 years now.....Murphy used bmac.....Lutz PRP alone. My patients have done well......everything was exhausted so they were miserable for more than a year before it was done.

Lutz is 100% successful. See published data.

 

[Pacman27]

a better question would be to ask algos what he would do if it was his back and his pain, or a family member.

Murphy and Lutz both have about 85% success rate to 3 years now.....Murphy used bmac.....Lutz PRP alone. My patients have done well......everything was exhausted so they were miserable for more than a year before it was done.

What do you inject and what kind of patients (primarily annular tears)

There is so much variability in this field and I can not even begin to understand how it helps facets

 

[Doctodd]

i would inject into the tear if i can get to it and the patient was a good candidate....you wont learn this on a forum or from a rep

 

[gdub25]

I too am interested in this. I went to ASIPP hoping to gain some perspective and was very disappointed by the content of material presented. We have PRP in the office but 90% of what we see is spine, not joints and soft tissue. I've injected some discs but too early to tell results. I've seen some recent publications showing benefit intradiscal with PRP. I've been over run with reps trying to sell stem cell systems, amniotic fluid, A2M, etc. Really want to know what I should be trying for these patients who have the resources to pay for cash only treatments that offers the greatest chance at success so I'm not just taking their money.

 

[DrCommonSense]

I too am interested in this. I went to ASIPP hoping to gain some perspective and was very disappointed by the content of material presented. We have PRP in the office but 90% of what we see is spine, not joints and soft tissue. I've injected some discs but too early to tell results. I've seen some recent publications showing benefit intradiscal with PRP. I've been over run with reps trying to sell stem cell systems, amniotic fluid, A2M, etc. Really want to know what I should be trying for these patients who have the resources to pay for cash only treatments that offers the greatest chance at success so I'm not just taking their money.

I dont think there are any answers on this subject yet since there is such little research that has been completed with trials.

 

[knoxdoc]

I have not done them intradiscal. I have some patients that have had them done but were under an experimental protocol IRB study that allowed more than minimal manipulation of stem cells and they were concentrated. Yet, even with this, their results were not as impressive as I would have thought.....so far minimal improvement.

Oh well, thanks anyways for the info.

 

[nvrsumr]

For those injecting discs

Are you putting abx in the solution? IV? Both?

Thanks