help-alcoholic

[icebreakers]

I wanted people's opinions on my experience.

I am a second year finally finishing up path for the 3rd time. I passed my first year. I failed my 2nd year and failed it again...after which I was forced into a medical leave of absence for alcholism treatment (which I denied like all hell..and thought that I was like everyone else).

After spending two weeks in inpatient treatment(after which i was fully convinced of my nature...and how many of my problems had a common source), as well as 6 weeks of intensive outpatient programs...
my life has totally changed. I'm the healthiest I have been ever in my life (mentally, spiritually, and physically). My focusing is better, I feel better and I am able to do everything better. No more depression, no more anxiety.

Its literally been a rebirth...and I have now one year sober (and plan on staying sober my entire life).

My course failures put me at the bottom of the class. My first year was below average (looking back now, my performance in college and first year was also severely affected by my lifestyle).

I take the boards this summer. I plan on taking something like 8-10 wks...and doing something like 5000 questions or more...if I can.

I really really like ortho. What can I do? Is this worth even pursuing? I feel that If I do well on the boards...I would pursue this very wholeheartedly. But what is the opinion of others out there?

Are residency directors forgiving to instances like this? This has totally been a life-changing experience for me. I wouldn't undo anything. Should I be completely honest with people about this problem? Additionally, the agreement that keeps me in school is one that requires some of my attendings in 3rd year rotations to know of my status.

What kind of board score should i get? Can a good score make up for my deficits in the first few years? do the failures make it impossible for ortho?

should I get to know anyone in the field now? how do I find out who is good to know? should i meet with the residency director of my school and tell him of my interest as well as my situation?

thanks

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[dry dre]

I wanted people's opinions on my experience.

To offer a very frank opinion, I don't think that you have any chance in ortho. Recall that there are a surplus of very strong ortho applicants without any appreciable blips on their records. Moreover, yours is a significant blip that has occured very recently.

 

[roygbasch]

I'm not a surgeon, but I would have to agree with dry dre. I think it sucks like hell and is incredibly unfair, but I doubt ortho PD's would take you. It would seem like a huge risk to them, and as dry dre put it, with tons of gunner applications, why do it? I'm sure for you, it seems hard to believe you could have already closed a door like that, but you probably have. Keep in mind that general surgery is less competitive and might be interesting to you too. If you are absolutely determined to get ortho, then bust ass on everything from here on out, get some research experience, do away rotations at the least competitive programs you can find, and give it a shot. But keep a back up plan in mind too. If they have ortho there, it might be worthwhile to talk with the PD. Good luck--

 

[OSU03]

I am going to disagree here. At least wait until you take your boards before you make a decision. If you get a 250+ on your Step 1, then I think you are fine. And what can it hurt to apply for ortho? If you want, apply to gen surg as well as a back up. But I wouldnt just give up on a dream because a few people on a web page said I had no chance.

There is still way too much med school left to even know whether you have a chance, with 3 year and Step 1 not even completed yet. You'll be amazed at how after Step 1 all of a sudden these hard core ortho guys decide that they like gen surg better. It is a huge weed out test.

If you do well on Step 1 and do well in 3rd year, I see no reason why you shouldn't at least try for ortho.

 

[icebreakers]

I must say that prior to all this happening in my life, I have always felt that if I want something badly enough, I can get it...and I feel that this principle applies to others as well. However, during the past few years with repeated course failures...that was the first time I doubted myself.

If I never got forced into a medical leave of absence, I don't think I would still be in medical school...and I think I would have continued to doubt myself. Fortunately, I don't doubt myself anymore. I know I'm competent, intelligent, hardworking, and an exceptional person... a lot of which has to do with the fact that I faced what was bothering me.

I appreciate the advice...and I was wondering on how to go about getting a 250 on step 1?

This sounds crazy but...
a IMG friend of mine (he teaches at a medical school in the carribean right now) told me that if I want a 99% score....I should do 10,000 questions.

If I have the time to do that (10-12 wks)...should I aim for that? considering that I need the highest score possible to keep doors open? Of course that in addition to my other review books
1. BRS Path
2. BRS Physio
3. FA
4. HY behav
5. HY Neuro
6. ridiculously simple Micro

is that enough? I am basically willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!! I will study 12 hrs a day if I have to. and I know that I can do it. If someone told me that...to get a 250 i need to do X...Y...Z, I would do those things in a heart beat.

what do you all think

I am going to disagree here. At least wait until you take your boards before you make a decision. If you get a 250+ on your Step 1, then I think you are fine. And what can it hurt to apply for ortho? If you want, apply to gen surg as well as a back up. But I wouldnt just give up on a dream because a few people on a web page said I had no chance.

There is still way too much med school left to even know whether you have a chance, with 3 year and Step 1 not even completed yet. You'll be amazed at how after Step 1 all of a sudden these hard core ortho guys decide that they like gen surg better. It is a huge weed out test.

If you do well on Step 1 and do well in 3rd year, I see no reason why you shouldn't at least try for ortho.

 

[Pterion]

I must say that prior to all this happening in my life, I have always felt that if I want something badly enough, I can get it...and I feel that this principle applies to others as well. However, during the past few years with repeated course failures...that was the first time I doubted myself.

If I never got forced into a medical leave of absence, I don't think I would still be in medical school...and I think I would have continued to doubt myself. Fortunately, I don't doubt myself anymore. I know I'm competent, intelligent, hardworking, and an exceptional person... a lot of which has to do with the fact that I faced what was bothering me.

I appreciate the advice...and I was wondering on how to go about getting a 250 on step 1?

This sounds crazy but...
a IMG friend of mine (he teaches at a medical school in the carribean right now) told me that if I want a 99% score....I should do 10,000 questions.

If I have the time to do that (10-12 wks)...should I aim for that? considering that I need the highest score possible to keep doors open? Of course that in addition to my other review books
1. BRS Path
2. BRS Physio
3. FA
4. HY behav
5. HY Neuro
6. ridiculously simple Micro

is that enough? I am basically willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!! I will study 12 hrs a day if I have to. and I know that I can do it. If someone told me that...to get a 250 i need to do X...Y...Z, I would do those things in a heart beat.

what do you all think

*disclaimer: I am not an orthopedic surgery residency director*
Man, with some due respect, isn't this exactly the 10-ft-tall-and-bulletproof stinking thinking that screwed you up the first time? Of course you are dedicated and sincere. Of course you want it badly - please don't think I am minimizing that. On the other hand, a calmer approach is probably better. I am not telling you ortho is a no-go, I'm thinking you need more than an earnest desire. You need track record. A 250 is a great score, but it's not a total package.

Assuming you have not already done this, get ahold of your state's impaired physician program and find a recovering orthopod. They're out there. Get advice from that person, not a group of intense, well-meaning gunners who can't imagine what you've been through.

And yes, be honest. You have no choice.

 

[ortho2003]

*disclaimer: I am not an orthopedic surgery residency director*
Man, with some due respect, isn't this exactly the 10-ft-tall-and-bulletproof stinking thinking that screwed you up the first time? Of course you are dedicated and sincere. Of course you want it badly - please don't think I am minimizing that. On the other hand, a calmer approach is probably better. I am not telling you ortho is a no-go, I'm thinking you need more than an earnest desire. You need track record. A 250 is a great score, but it's not a total package.

Assuming you have not already done this, get ahold of your state's impaired physician program and find a recovering orthopod. They're out there. Get advice from that person, not a group of intense, well-meaning gunners who can't imagine what you've been through.

And yes, be honest. You have no choice.

Excellent advice here....and a littel encouragement from personal experience...I sincerely hated med school my first year. I dropped most of my classes 2nd semester, failed one of the two that I didn't drop and then failed a class the following year when I rematriculated. I did well during my 2nd year courses and scored 240+ on step I and step II to go along with all honors 3rd year. I ended up with 20 interview offers and a match at my number 1 porgram. I was asked multiple times what happened early on and I was honest in my response, as should you be when the questions arise. Work you ass off, rock step I, honor everything you can honor during 3rd year, and be a star on your ortho rotations fourth year. If you can manage to accomplish all three of those goals (while maintaining sobriety of course), you will have a decent shot of matching ortho. Good luck.

 

[icebreakers]

isn't that information confidential? That does sound like good advice. I have not yet pursued that avenue...I do however know some physicians in recovery and have been asking around.

*disclaimer: I am not an orthopedic surgery residency director*
Man, with some due respect, isn't this exactly the 10-ft-tall-and-bulletproof stinking thinking that screwed you up the first time? Of course you are dedicated and sincere. Of course you want it badly - please don't think I am minimizing that. On the other hand, a calmer approach is probably better. I am not telling you ortho is a no-go, I'm thinking you need more than an earnest desire. You need track record. A 250 is a great score, but it's not a total package.

Assuming you have not already done this, get ahold of your state's impaired physician program and find a recovering orthopod. They're out there. Get advice from that person, not a group of intense, well-meaning gunners who can't imagine what you've been through.

And yes, be honest. You have no choice.

 

[icebreakers]

With all the variability between different rotation experiences...some teach better than others...some barely give you enough time to prepare for the shelf exams...

How should I prepare for shelf exams and see to it that I am doing my best in the rotations?

Do I need to do questions everyday? any other tips?

 

[Pterion]

isn't that information confidential? That does sound like good advice. I have not yet pursued that avenue...I do however know some physicians in recovery and have been asking around.

It is. Frequently there are physicians in recovery who have identified themselves as willing to talk to those newer to the process. The IPC will know who they are. Not to mention this program will have resources to support you that you might not have guessed. A colleague of mine had a similar experience, engaged the IPC and has had great success in general surgery.

As Ortho2003 shows, it can be done.

 

[icebreakers]

thanks...I just emailed someone at the addiction facility for physicians in my state and plan on pursuing this whole-heartedly. Its actually kind of exciting to know that there are others like me out there who have met up with success professionally, while maintaining their sobriety.

I personally feel that I have so much more to offer to my patients in the future, just because of the fact that I went through hell the past few years. Its amazing how humble you can get when you're forced to face, dissect, and improve your own problems (with the guidance of others).

 

[icebreakers]

Ortho2003...thankyou for the encouragement and inspiring story! Did you have a similar problem? or were there other issues for you? The reason I ask...i'm just curious (if you went throught the same thing)...what your strategy was for the boards step1 and 2, and for studying for shelfs. Additionally, did you find someone to mentor you? did you get to know anyone in residency programs who was understanding to 'different' but great candidates?

 

[dry dre]

I don't mean to piss on any parades or be insensitive to anyone's strong desires. This being said, it must be emphasized that on these boards anectdotes of rare execptions are likely disproportionately mentioned. I suspect that reading about these exceptions likely gives a great amount of false hope to too many people.

Ortho, like other highly competative specialties, requires a great commitment to get into the specialty. Insofar as this often includes taking up specialized (i.e. ortho) research (=effort and time), 2-3 ortho rotations usually away from home, great financial expense in doing away rotations, a lot of $$$ to apply to many programs, $$$ in travel to interviews, all of which doesn't garauntee a match for even many highly competative applicants. It is for all these reasons that I think it a responsible thing to be frank with people who likely (statistically) won't get in.

Not necessarily speaking to the OP:
If you have no problem in commiting such great resources (really think about the toll) into a venture that you statistically have a poor chance in succeeding in, have at it. Maybe my read on the stats is wrong, or I like stats too much...

 

[dpg]

I wanted people's opinions on my experience.

I am a second year finally finishing up path for the 3rd time. I passed my first year. I failed my 2nd year and failed it again...after which I was forced into a medical leave of absence for alcholism treatment (which I denied like all hell..and thought that I was like everyone else).

After spending two weeks in inpatient treatment(after which i was fully convinced of my nature...and how many of my problems had a common source), as well as 6 weeks of intensive outpatient programs...
my life has totally changed. I'm the healthiest I have been ever in my life (mentally, spiritually, and physically). My focusing is better, I feel better and I am able to do everything better. No more depression, no more anxiety.

Its literally been a rebirth...and I have now one year sober (and plan on staying sober my entire life).

My course failures put me at the bottom of the class. My first year was below average (looking back now, my performance in college and first year was also severely affected by my lifestyle).

I take the boards this summer. I plan on taking something like 8-10 wks...and doing something like 5000 questions or more...if I can.

I really really like ortho. What can I do? Is this worth even pursuing? I feel that If I do well on the boards...I would pursue this very wholeheartedly. But what is the opinion of others out there?

Are residency directors forgiving to instances like this? This has totally been a life-changing experience for me. I wouldn't undo anything. Should I be completely honest with people about this problem? Additionally, the agreement that keeps me in school is one that requires some of my attendings in 3rd year rotations to know of my status.

What kind of board score should i get? Can a good score make up for my deficits in the first few years? do the failures make it impossible for ortho?

should I get to know anyone in the field now? how do I find out who is good to know? should i meet with the residency director of my school and tell him of my interest as well as my situation?

thanks

Careful who you share your recovery with my friend. I know Bill too. And I advise not sharing that with anyone who doesn't need to know or have first hand experience. Let me ask you hows your recovery? Do have a sponsor? How long has it been? Do you attend meetings? Be responsible for recovery first or everything you put in front of it will fall away until it is the priority. Good luck. I wasn't so fortuneate with my relapse during dental school and ended up out on my arse. 2yrs later I might have a slim chance of getting back in we'll see.

DPG

 

[dotty]

you can do well on the boards despite trouble during the first 2 years. The content is a bit easier than some of the minutiae you learn in basic science courses.


the boards are not everything though, its the whole package and you have a lot of time to create that package. see your PM on this.

I would get involved with research soon at your school, after boards. Do not run to the Ortho program director at your school and tell him your situation, but do let them know of your interest. Sometime around the end of the 3rd year, get yourself a mentor, an ortho attending or associate prof (not PD or chairman) and tell that person your situation. It may spread to the chairman, but it's better to get their opinion 1st, and request they keep it in confidence.

ANyone who goes into Ortho has a lot to think about. But don't get anxious over it, just take care of whats on your plate now (step I).


But please to not get so extreme about your studying, that is bound to cause severe enough anxiety to cause depression. Now that your sober, you have a lot more mental clarity and can be more confident about your performance.

I know someone who bombed the first 2 years and did very well on step I- he did the Kaplan Q-Bank, read the Kaplan books which puts it all together (recommend briefing BRS for Physiology though), read First Aid a couple of times, and did a few Pre-test Q's (Pharm, Pathophys). I f you have extra time, maybe try USMLE world. 6-8 weeks seemed like comfortable study time for him.

I seriously doubt you must have a 250 to get into Ortho, its the whole package that matters. You'll realize that when you apply.