going for match with prematch?

[SiberianBear]

I am looking for experienced input on this one:
If one accepts prematch from nice program but in away city which would be his second choice after local program. What would be the consequences if he does not withdraw from match and plays it with the hope to stay in local program? If he does not match then he can use accepted prematch offer. But declining accepted prematch after match can be with consequences right?
Thanks

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[howelljolly]

I am looking for experienced input on this one:
If one accepts prematch from nice program but in away city which would be his second choice after local program. What would be the consequences if he does not withdraw from match and plays it with the hope to stay in local program? If he does not match then he can use accepted prematch offer. But declining accepted prematch after match can be with consequences right?
Thanks

The consequences are that you will be that you can lose BOTH residency seats, and be banned from using the Match in future years.


You can NOT hold on to a prematch, and participate in the Match, and "use" the prematch as a Scramble.

If you get as far as Matching while holding onto a prematch, the minute you drop the prematch, you will raise another "alert" in the system.

Are you so foolish not to realize that you have an AAMC ID number which can be easily tracked, and that this "irregularity" will be electronically detected? You'll lose any chance of getting a residency in the US, and be deported faster than you can say ECFMG.

 

[sam1999]

Are you the same person as "Wannabenelson" or asking this question on his or her behalf.
There is another threadhttp://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=696426
in ERAS forum where person is confused whether to accept pre-match from 2nd choice far away program or not.

My understanding is once you interview at a program, they can look you up in the system whether you have matched or not any where and point is they can easily figure it out. So think hard before becoming smart pants. If you screw up someone you will be remembered.

 

[SiberianBear]

The consequences are that you will be that you can lose BOTH residency seats, and be banned from using the Match in future years.


You can NOT hold on to a prematch, and participate in the Match, and "use" the prematch as a Scramble.

If you get as far as Matching while holding onto a prematch, the minute you drop the prematch, you will raise another "alert" in the system.

Are you so foolish not to realize that you have an AAMC ID number which can be easily tracked, and that this "irregularity" will be electronically detected? You'll lose any chance of getting a residency in the US, and be deported faster than you can say ECFMG.

this is the reason the question was posted. 99% this way not gonna be chosen. I just wanted more confidence in going with prematch and dissolve post purchase dissonance. Sort of unease feeling to have your spouse and kid live in different city.

However here is more oil in burner: Perhaps prematch is not registered with NRMP and it is not official. I was wondering if you go via official way of matching then unofficial arrangement could be dropped. Prematch program possibly could look up status of their candidate in NRMP and see if he did withdraw. Obviously this side gonna be pissed off and make some trouble..

 

[howelljolly]

this is the reason the question was posted. 99% this way not gonna be chosen. I just wanted more confidence in going with prematch and dissolve post purchase dissonance. Sort of unease feeling to have your spouse and kid live in different city.

However here is more oil in burner: Perhaps prematch is not registered with NRMP and it is not official. I was wondering if you go via official way of matching then unofficial arrangement could be dropped. Prematch program possibly could look up status of their candidate in NRMP and see if he did withdraw. Obviously this side gonna be pissed off and make some trouble..

Listen to me.

What you are proposing is against the rules. Prematches are "official" - you sign a match, the GME office processes your information, and the program withdraws one spot from the Match for you.

You can NOT go via official way of matching then unofficial arrangement could be dropped.

The minute either the NRMP or the program finds out that you violated the rules, you will lose both residencies, be banned from the Match in the future, and be unable to obtain a residency in the US.

You are not adding more oil to burner. All you did was ask the same stupid question again.

Why dont you give me your AAMC # so I can report you myself?

 

[RussianJoo]

Listen to me.

What you are proposing is against the rules. Prematches are "official" - you sign a match, the GME office processes your information, and the program withdraws one spot from the Match for you.

You can NOT go via official way of matching then unofficial arrangement could be dropped.

The minute either the NRMP or the program finds out that you violated the rules, you will lose both residencies, be banned from the Match in the future, and be unable to obtain a residency in the US.

You are not adding more oil to burner. All you did was ask the same stupid question again.

Why dont you give me your AAMC # so I can report you myself?

hahaha...

here's how this will turn out for you. you accept a prematch and go through the match. best case scenario is you don't match in the match and you go where you prematched. however, if you do match in the match both are legally binding contract. so if you drop the prematch offer, that program will get pissed because now they're down a resident so they will file an official complaint with the NRMP and you'll be disqualified from both and probably be banned from the Match for a few years, also all other programs will be able to look up your record via your AAMC # and will see what you've done in the past, so your chances of matching or getting a residency again will be very slim. Or if you match and drop the match then the NRMP will know and the same thing will happen.

So you have two options and so does everyone else. either take the prematch, or go through the match.

Why do you think you have the right to cheat the system? why do you deserve a more secure chance of getting a residency then everyone else?

You're a pretty unethical person be careful if the program that you prematched in finds out they might easily drop their prematch offer.

 

[howelljolly]

hahaha...

here's how this will turn out for you. you accept a prematch and go through the match. best case scenario is you don't match in the match and you go where you prematched. however, if you do match in the match both are legally binding contract. so if you drop the prematch offer, that program will get pissed because now they're down a resident so they will file an official complaint with the NRMP and you'll be disqualified from both and probably be banned from the Match for a few years, also all other programs will be able to look up your record via your AAMC # and will see what you've done in the past, so your chances of matching or getting a residency again will be very slim. Or if you match and drop the match then the NRMP will know and the same thing will happen.

So you have two options and so does everyone else. either take the prematch, or go through the match.

Why do you think you have the right to cheat the system? why do you deserve a more secure chance of getting a residency then everyone else?

You're a pretty unethical person be careful if the program that you prematched in finds out they might easily drop their prematch offer.

Seriously, after reading the OP, I think the NRMP/ERAS should put a stop to prematching. Prematching exists so that programs can get uber-qualified foreign physicians who anticipate Visa and immigration issues. But its used by unethical fools like this.....

 

[Law2Doc]

Seriously, after reading the OP, I think the NRMP/ERAS should put a stop to prematching. Prematching exists so that programs can get uber-qualified foreign physicians who anticipate Visa and immigration issues. But its used by unethical fools like this.....

Prematch is used by programs which, for whatever reason, think they can attract a better caliber of folks this route than they can via the match and scramble. So it's almost certainly a sucker play for applicants because if the programs think folks of their caliber would get snapped up in the match/scramble, then it's probably true. It is preying on applicant's insecurities by programs that know better.
Plus it doesn't really seem right/fair to have a whole match system open to both US and non-US applicants and then allow the latter to subvert the system. Not that most of the prematch spots are things US students would be fighting for, but as the ranks of US students increase, this might change, plus there are always the prelim spots that are geographically desirable for some and yet aren't available to the match.
For these reasons, I would do away with it. It would mean more spots available in the match, and most would fall to the scramble, at which point they would be filled with the best folks left, which is who should really be ending up with these spots in the first place. Nobody is made a sucker, all would be fair play.

 

[codK Kdoc]

Seriously, after reading the OP, I think the NRMP/ERAS should put a stop to prematching. Prematching exists so that programs can get uber-qualified foreign physicians who anticipate Visa and immigration issues. But its used by unethical fools like this.....

You seem to have very strong opinions but those are not always correct!!!

The information below comes from the NRMP website, so I don't think you can discredit it:

Programs that participate in the Main Residency Match may offer positions to independent applicants outside the Match

Now let me quote their definition of an independent applicant... Pretty much anyone who is not a U.S. senior:
Applicants who are not seniors in a U.S. LCME-accredited allopathic medical school may participate in the NRMP Match as independent applicants if they meet certain criteria.
Six types of independent applicants may participate in the NRMP Main Match:

Previous graduate of a U.S. medical school (someone who graduated earlier than July 1st in the year before the match)
Student/graduate of a U.S. osteopathic medical school
Student/graduate of a Canadian medical school
Student/graduate of a Fifth Pathway program
U.S. citizen student/graduate of an international medical school
Non-U.S. citizen (including permanent residents) student/graduate of an international medical school.
​

Anyone mentioned above might get a "prematch" offer! And foreign physicians are just one of the 6 types.

I do agree though that SiberianBear shows a very unethical approach to the whole issue...

However... The low ethics is more common within the system... Someone here on the Forum was talking about PDs from home programs calling PDs they know in other programs to recommend certain applicants... With such practices this whole system looks like a joke... Why ERAS/NRMP if all it takes is a phone call from one PD to another?

The idea of ERAS was to provide equal chances to all candidates as far as application is concerned... Almost every program website says they will not accept anything else but ERAS... Aren't such verbal recommendations an ethical violation of the ERAS-policy?

 

[sam1999]

Although I do think SiberianBear has unethical approach towards match but it works both ways.

Many pre-match programs (there are many program which fills their spots only via pre-match) offers a candidate pre-match. There are several stages from the time of pre-match offer to start of residency. Initial offer is either verbal or via email and ask to you make up your mind in X amount of days.

Common complaint from applicants is by the time they call (within time limit provided), program will tell them position is already filled. Unethical (but who), yes but quite common to hear.

Next level is you accepted offer. I think first offer is kind of letter of intent before signing actual contract, but if program finds some one better they back off from their offer. Best of luck to those who cancel their remaining interviews with the assumption they have a pre-match.

Next level is you sign a contract, but program tell you at the time of match/post match they will not take you. So you are completely screwed. I heard that one too.

Moral of the story is it works both ways. Most of the time, pre-match is offered to foreign doctors who possibly have visa, money issues and perhaps don't understand legal system so they can't take program to the court and who wants to work for such a program who creates problems from the beginnings.

In case of SiberianBear, he/she can be busted very easily and since he/she is US person so program might come after him/her as well but it is time costly and I think someone needs to be very determined to do that. But they can do something very simple to report you to NRMP and I don't know how often it is done. You have to see risk reward ratio. One side is career/prematch and other side is banned meaning done with medicine perhaps. Are you delusional or why can't you see risks what others are telling you.

 

[howelljolly]

You seem to have very strong opinions but those are not always correct!!!

The information below comes from the NRMP website, so I don't think you can discredit it:

Programs that participate in the Main Residency Match may offer positions to independent applicants outside the Match

Now let me quote their definition of an independent applicant... Pretty much anyone who is not a U.S. senior:
Applicants who are not seniors in a U.S. LCME-accredited allopathic medical school may participate in the NRMP Match as independent applicants if they meet certain criteria.
Six types of independent applicants may participate in the NRMP Main Match:

Previous graduate of a U.S. medical school (someone who graduated earlier than July 1st in the year before the match)
Student/graduate of a U.S. osteopathic medical school
Student/graduate of a Canadian medical school
Student/graduate of a Fifth Pathway program
U.S. citizen student/graduate of an international medical school
Non-U.S. citizen (including permanent residents) student/graduate of an international medical school.
​

Anyone mentioned above might get a "prematch" offer! And foreign physicians are just one of the 6 types.

?

Thats nice. It doesnt explain WHY these six types of applicants should be able to circumvent the system.

Perhaps I'm confabulating, but I read somewhere that the reason that the prematch exists in the first place is because years ago, some programs had an issue where they matched FMGs. The ~3 months between Match Day and Housestaff Orientation may not be enough time to process the Visa and immigration paperwork, and some FMGs couldnt start on time. That ~3 months still isn't enough time for some, I know of one program who was short one intern (from the 2009 match) for a few months due to immigration issues.

So, the pre-match was instituted to give programs the opportunity to get independent applicants that the program wanted, and give them a Letter of Intent for Hire, so they could bring it to the help get heads up on the immigration paperwork.

I said "uber-qualified" foreign grads in place of "applicants that the program wanted" because as usual I am being silly. And in my mind I was thinking of an IMG who pre-matched, and just happened to have an impressive CV with like 60 pubs.

 

[codK Kdoc]

Thats nice. It doesnt explain WHY these six types of applicants should be able to circumvent the system.

This was just a quoted fact... As why it is so - I don't consider myself qualified to make any assumptions.

Besides it - it's part of the system - it's one of the rules, so by definition, nobody is bypassing anything. It's not some obscure solution on edge of legality. I gave you an example of clear circumvention - PDs calling other PDs to recommend their favorite applicants...

SiberianBear wanted to go against the rules, and that's not only unethical, but also illegal. However it's not a reason to discredit anyone who has the right to follow a given legal path.

Being a U.S. senior is a very advantageous position, but it's not everything... A foreign-trained medical student or a foreign-trained physician does not need to be "uber-qualified" to be as qualified as a U.S. senior for a given position. Worldwide there are many excellent medical schools, which are really hard to get to and through, and not all of them are located in the United States. Both in the States and other countries there are many low-quality institutions.

In general, it's very enriching to spread your medical career over various countries. You broaden your horizons and see many ways of doing something. As a student I have done all kinds of rotations, both in medically-left-behind (few) and also highly-developed settings (majority), and they have all proven really useful. The first ones taught me to be resourceful, while the latter showed me all the recent achievements of medicine.

Prematch... Immigration issues...

Another fact: ECFMG must confirm the applicants eligibility to initiate the residency training on July 1st of a given year prior to ROL deadline...
This way, I believe, the visa-status problem is solved!

Perfect systems = UTOPIA!!!

 

[howelljolly]

This was just a quoted fact... As why it is so - I don't consider myself qualified to make any assumptions.

Besides it - it's part of the system - it's one of the rules, so by definition, nobody is bypassing anything. It's not some obscure solution on edge of legality. I gave you an example of clear circumvention - PDs calling other PDs to recommend their favorite applicants...

SiberianBear wanted to go against the rules, and that's not only unethical, but also illegal. However it's not a reason to discredit anyone who has the right to follow a given legal path.

Being a U.S. senior is a very advantageous position, but it's not everything... A foreign-trained medical student or a foreign-trained physician does not need to be "uber-qualified" to be as qualified as a U.S. senior for a given position. Worldwide there are many excellent medical schools, which are really hard to get to and through, and not all of them are located in the United States. Both in the States and other countries there are many low-quality institutions.

In general, it's very enriching to spread your medical career over various countries. You broaden your horizons and see many ways of doing something. As a student I have done all kinds of rotations, both in medically-left-behind (few) and also highly-developed settings (majority), and they have all proven really useful. The first ones taught me to be resourceful, while the latter showed me all the recent achievements of medicine.

Another fact: ECFMG must confirm the applicants eligibility to initiate the residency training on July 1st of a given year prior to ROL deadline...
This way, I believe, the visa-status problem is solved!

Perfect systems = UTOPIA!!!

Again, I used the term "uber-qualified" because I like putting "uber" in front of words when I speak, like "these fries are uber-salty". I explained that I mean "applicants that programs want and who happen to be FMGs".... but that's too long to type and explain.

I am fully aware of what an Independent Applicant is, and Im not debating that. Your FACT didnt tell me something I didnt know.

Everything has a WHY, especially every loophole that's added to a closed system. If you don't know why the prematch "bypass" was added for Independent Applicants, then why are you arguing with me? By definition the pre-match is a bypass for the Match. I know its legal, a bypass is not, by necessity illegal.

There another "legal bypass" in the medical education system - 7year BS/MD programs. Ive heard that the rationale behind these was that some med schools had trouble filling because there were more competitive/prestigious schools in the same area. So these schools offered something extra, and by reserving seats 3 years in advance, were able to fill easily. (E.g. there are ~2 MD schools in New Jersey and the less "prestigious" one has the BS/MD program)

Go find your own rationale for why the prematch was instituted, and then come back and argue. Otherwise, dont teach me about random things.

And...

1. the ECFMG does not do a perfect job of screening for immigration issues. I dont even know if they do so at all. They confirm eligibility based on the applicant's medical education - thats their purpose.

2. An applicant need not be ECFMG certified during the interview/match season. So the ECFMG can not confirm that an applicant will be elegible for a Visa if said applicant has not completed their ECFMG certification process. FMGs have from March to July to get their ECFMG certification as well as their Visa. The ECFMG's (questionable) screening for visa issues for said applicant may not occur until after the applicant has already Matched into a program.

3. As I said, this problem has not been "solved". I know of a program who Matched a FMG. The FMG couldn't get their paperwork done in time, and the program was down one resident for a few months.

So, on these three points, if not more, it is not the ECFMGs expressed purpose to solve the immigration issue.... not even their side-effect.

 

[Winged Scapula]

However... The low ethics is more common within the system... Someone here on the Forum was talking about PDs from home programs calling PDs they know in other programs to recommend certain applicants... With such practices this whole system looks like a joke...

Why ERAS/NRMP if all it takes is a phone call from one PD to another?

The idea of ERAS was to provide equal chances to all candidates as far as application is concerned... Almost every program website says they will not accept anything else but ERAS... Aren't such verbal recommendations an ethical violation of the ERAS-policy?

Besides it - it's part of the system - it's one of the rules, so by definition, nobody is bypassing anything. It's not some obscure solution on edge of legality. I gave you an example of clear circumvention - PDs calling other PDs to recommend their favorite applicants...

PDs or other faculty calling each other is not a violation of any ERAS or NRMP policy nor is it unethical. I see it as no different than a former employer calling a potential new one to discuss a candidate. BTW, it goes the other way as well, in that phone calls can be made about candidates that would NOT be recommended. Sometimes a faculty member is not comfortable sharing information in written form that would be better conveyed in a phone to a colleague.

Consider it unfair if you wish but its not a violation or "clear circumvention" in any way shape or form. There is nothing preventing faculty from discussing candidates with each other.

Secondly, ERAS is simply a centralized application system. They do not control NRMP policies and vice versa. In the "old days" applicants had to send paper applications, with separate fees and documentation, to every program they wanted to apply to. The system has made it MUCH easier for everyone involved and the process is much smoother. I think you are confusing ERAS with NRMP. Even so, NRMP has no prohibitive policies against faculty members discussing candidates with each other although clearly they would frown upon programs asking and/or demanding that other programs not rank a certain candidate that they prefer (see accusations against Dr. Cameron in the case involving Dr. Serrano). However, simple phone calls saying, "we have a student who is very impressed by your program and would like to be there, could you take a good look at his app, he's a great candidate" are not a problem and are common.

Another fact: ECFMG must confirm the applicants eligibility to initiate the residency training on July 1st of a given year prior to ROL deadline...
This way, I believe, the visa-status problem is solved!

ECFMG is not involved in establishing visa status for candidates. They are simply verifying your medical credentials and that are eligible ON THOSE GROUNDS to enter US graduate medical education. Every year there are candidates who have completed all the requirements but cannot get a visa or a license on time to start July 1. This is not the province of ECFMG but rather the state department, the residency program (if sponsoring a visa), the applicant (for getting their paperwork done in time) and the state medical licensing board. ECFMG can sponsor J visas but getting the certificate does not depend on that being the case or having a visa at all. See http://www.ecfmg.org/2009ib/ibgrad.html for more information.

 

[codK Kdoc]

Another fact: ECFMG must confirm the applicants eligibility to initiate the residency training on July 1st of a given year prior to ROL deadline...
This way, I believe, the visa-status problem is solved!

The first statement was a fact... The other was expressing my opinion ("I believe")... I was wrong about that and I am sorry.

In the end it doesn't really matter what we believe to be a bypass or a circumvention. It is what it is! The ERAS/NRMP system has its rules, and as long as one follows the rules, one is not bypassing anything. If "prematch" is a bypass, then so is the NRMP itself, as well as every rule of law and such. Rules get mostly created as bridges over some troubled water, but once they become clearly defined regulations, they are part of the system, not a loophole or anything of that kind.

Customs are a different story... As long as they are not codified, there might be a never-ending discussion about them. Everybody has an opinion. PDs calling each other to recommend candidates might be a customary action, though as it's not regulated, it remains a matter of personal opinion whether such gestures are ethical or not.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I am curious as to why you apparently think it unethical for PDs to call one another?

If I was an employer interviewing you to work in my shoe store, is there anything wrong with me calling your current employer to verify your claims about being the best possible employee? Is there anything wrong with your current employer calling me to tell me much the same? This is standard in all other professions.

I fail to see anything different here. The match is MUCH more applicant friendly and fair than it used to be and most of the rules and regulations in place are there to protect the candidate. Asking potential employers to be relieved of a valuable tool that every other employer has doesn't seem to be fair to me. IMHO you are putting too much emphasis on the weight that those phone calls (don't) have.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Thats nice. It doesnt explain WHY these six types of applicants should be able to circumvent the system.

Although I'm not 100% certain of the reason/history, I'm pretty sure I know. And the key is that you are thinking about this backwards. You shouldn't wonder why some groups get to "circumvent" the system. Instead, ask why only a single group, allopathic 4th year medical students, are forced to use the match.

The answer lies in the creation of the match. The application process for residency slots was a nightmare, and the Dean's of the medical schools (and program directors/Chairs, I expect) wanted to fix the problem. So, they created the match together. The Dean's agreed to commit their students to the match. Since the number of IMG's was very small, there was no need for residency programs to do the same.

Hence, allo 4th year students are contractually commited to the match. Everyone else is not.

At least, that's the way I see it.

 

[tootsweet]

.

 

[thedrjojo]

i agree that there is no problem with calls... winged said it best

i think that the prematch system needs to be gotten away with because it gives programs a upper hand over applicants which from my understanding was why the match was developed in the first place. plus i dont agree with taking non us grads over us grads but that is more personal thoughts and shouldnt be used for policy purposes

 

[thedrjojo]

,

 

[howelljolly]

,

I wish you'd stop doing that

 

[thedrjojo]

that was my first message like that, and it was an erroroneous double post. I appologize for the inconvience

 

[thedrjojo]

There another "legal bypass" in the medical education system - 7year BS/MD programs. Ive heard that the rationale behind these was that some med schools had trouble filling because there were more competitive/prestigious schools in the same area. So these schools offered something extra, and by reserving seats 3 years in advance, were able to fill easily. (E.g. there are ~2 MD schools in New Jersey and the less "prestigious" one has the BS/MD program)

First off, both NJ medical schools offer 7 and 8 year combined programs (NJMS has TCNJ, Montclair State University, BU, and Drew while RWJ has programs with Rutgers-New Brunswick and Rutgers-Newark). Secondly, neither of the schools is really considered more or less prestigious than the other, and infact, the bigger problem between the two of them is many people out there don't even know there is a difference between the two of them. Finally, the spectrum of schools offering a combined program makes your theory behind the reason that there are combined programs (plus that both NJ schools actually have them) debunked

 

[howelljolly]

First off, both NJ medical schools offer 7 and 8 year combined programs (NJMS has TCNJ, Montclair State University, BU, and Drew while RWJ has programs with Rutgers-New Brunswick and Rutgers-Newark). Secondly, neither of the schools is really considered more or less prestigious than the other, and infact, the bigger problem between the two of them is many people out there don't even know there is a difference between the two of them. Finally, the spectrum of schools offering a combined program makes your theory behind the reason that there are combined programs (plus that both NJ schools actually have them) debunked

It seems like you have the same problem as codK.

I don't know or care what the state of affairs of the schools in New Jersey are right now. You noticed that I put "prestigious" in quotes, yes? I am talking about the underlying rationale for having direct entry BS/MD programs. I gave the example of NJ because there are two allopathic schools, as opposed to NY where there are a zillion.

I don't know the exact timelines of the school, but I used them as an illustration. Again, I dont "evidence base" all of my statements - especially the ones involving politics, policy, etc - anything where there is a stated, PC, newsworthy, sensible rationale, versus another hidden-agenda unspoken underlying one (E.g the REAL reason why everyone, by law, must purchase health insurance)

It really doesn't matter that right now both med schools have direct entry programs, and that both schools are considered "equal". In the past, when direct entry programs were coming into existence, there was a reason , and it wasn't "oh, lets just let these high school students go straight to med school, without having the stress of med school apps, MCATs, et cetera, while they are busy writing their Bachelors thesis or stuck in Physics II.... wouldnt that be nice of us?". Do you really think they want to make it easier on high school students because they are just nice guys? The reason was to fill seats.

Perhaps years ago, when you were a twinkle in your fathers eye..... the crime ridden, inner city campus of UMDNJ, which was the hub of the charity care of the state, had a bit more trouble filling their seats than the quaint, greener, near-suburban campus of UMDNJ... before Robert Wood Johnson bought up the campus, and the New York Jets. So, MAYBE they made the inner city campus a bit more enticing to the young ones by creating a direct entry program, maybe?? (Im saying "maybe" because I dont know... Im using a simple made-up, real-life illustration, not giving a history of NJ) Win-win.... the little ones get into med school, and the school snatches up promising smart students before they have a BS and their options broaden.

awww snap.

Maybe you can think a little bit and realize that you can't look at something now and assume that thats how it always been.

"No doctor, your theory that this patient has a pathological fracture is wrong... he fell... so it's traumatic.... debunked!"

Idiot

 

[Crazy Diamond]

talking from my own experience ..an IMG and accepted prematch offer you cannot accept a prematch and go for the match.. when you accept a prematch you sign what's called a prematch agreement whereby you agree to immediately withdraw from the NRMP ... if you didn't sign that piece of paper within a certain period of time the offer is usually declined ...some programs send a preliminary contract some that's that

programs that offer prematch are true as said earlier " of lower caliber" usually not but that is the case most of the time .. 96% community programs most of these have trouble filling in the match.

so you cannot accept both doesn't work this way..

 

[Crazy Diamond]

ah howelljolly ....
as an FMG you can't register on NRMP nor rank if you are not ECFMG certified

 

[Winged Scapula]

ah howelljolly ....
as an FMG you can't register on NRMP nor rank if you are not ECFMG certified

That is incorrect. You can register with NRMP without being ECFMG certified and you can submit your ROL as well. You must have completed all your exams by submission of the ROL; your final degree can be pending.

You cannot start residency without being certified.

 

[Smashweasel]

Im an IMG and I have a few friends that accepted pre-match offers and one that turned it down. I listened to one say they were going to attempt to do what the original poster said. I tried to use the above logic to get them to reconsider and I hope they do, but Im not holding my breath. I aslo interviewed with a DO student at a combined DO/MD program and they said they we going to stay in both matches. I didn't think this was possible, but again Im an IMG and not a DO.
Deep down I hope they get caught and pay a price for it. They are in effect taking a spot away from someone that might want to go to one of these programs. Now they might have to go elsewhere or possible scramble and this program won't even be there to scramble into.
Im kinda glad EM doesn't really offer pre-matches . If I had gotten one early I would not have interviewed at the place that now sits atop my ROL.
And another thing...why did you still go on more interviews? I spent a down payment on a house to go on all my interviews.

 

[heech]

I aslo interviewed with a DO student at a combined DO/MD program and they said they we going to stay in both matches. I didn't think this was possible, but again Im an IMG and not a DO.

There's nothing wrong with a DO doing this. The DO match comes first; if a match is made, then they're automatically pulled out of the subsequent MD match.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I think the confusion turns on whether or not the OP was offered a prematch or whether he actually signed a contract.

The contract is-- surprise!-- a contract. Meaning it's legally enforceable.

An offer alone is a very different kettle of fish.

 

[Shoushu]

You seem to have very strong opinions but those are not always correct!!!


Programs that participate in the Main Residency Match may offer positions to independent applicants outside the Match

Now let me quote their definition of an independent applicant... Pretty much anyone who is not a U.S. senior:
Applicants who are not seniors in a U.S. LCME-accredited allopathic medical school may participate in the NRMP Match as independent applicants if they meet certain criteria.
Six types of independent applicants may participate in the NRMP Main Match:

Previous graduate of a U.S. medical school (someone who graduated earlier than July 1st in the year before the match)
Student/graduate of a U.S. osteopathic medical school
Student/graduate of a Canadian medical school
Student/graduate of a Fifth Pathway program
U.S. citizen student/graduate of an international medical school
Non-U.S. citizen (including permanent residents) student/graduate of an international medical school.

​

Anyone mentioned above might get a "prematch" offer! And foreign physicians are just one of the 6 types.

I'll most likely be the 5th type: U.S. citizen student/graduate of an international medical school. I'm happy to know there is a prematch option. To me, it's like Early Decision/Early Action when applying to undergrad, apt analogy? You and institution decide to do Early Decision. You get early admission for a college during November-Senior Year and can relax for the rest of high school!


Though I haven't started med school yet, but given my bad stats (Sub-3.0 GPA etc), I'll end up in offshore school or lower-tier DO. If a prematch offer happens for me 4 years from now, and it's a binding contract, I think I'll just sign it. It's like having a job in hand, saves headaches from MATCH/SCRAMBLE. All PGY-1's are paid the same, $40,000/yr.

From reading this thread, my only reservation is that it may be a crappy program, for why else would they give US-IMG the spot instead of qualified allopathic seniors? Why'd PDs legally bind themselves to a Prematch with contract (or writen offer), when they can pick and choose from a big pool of fish?

I don't care about location. I actually would love to serve in a rural, community hospital for a large % of my life. My specialty interests are General Surgery (Trauma), Anesthesiology, Internal Med, Family Medicine, in that order.

Do prematches happen for General Surgery candidates? If I do well, there is chance for subspecializing in Trauma, or say Vascular Surgery etc, by doing a fellowship in a large, more "prestigious" university hospital in a huge city later, right, or no?

After I finish GMEs, then am I not equal to the other general surgeons, or will I get penalized for being IMG and prematched into an undesirable program?

 

[PhakeDoc]

This must be

Though I haven't started med school yet

why you think this:

All PGY-1's are paid the same, $40,000/yr.

I'd double-check your info.

As for this (not trying to burst your bubble, but no need to get the cart before the horse)

Do prematches happen for General Surgery candidates? If I do well, there is chance for subspecializing in Trauma, or say Vascular Surgery etc, by doing a fellowship in a large, more "prestigious" university hospital in a huge city later, right, or no?

I'd just concentrate on doing the damned best job I could to ace your basic science courses, crush Step 1, and rock your 3rd year rotations. You might end up hating surgery and instead think that looking at/examining female private parts is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[tkim]

All PGY-1's are paid the same, $40,000/yr.

Wrong.

 

[Shoushu]

Wrong.

Sorry for the wrong # in my original post (Post#31), but I was surprised to read in a book that the range is pretty small, something like $38,000-$42,000 for PGY-1s/1stResident/Interns. There'd of course be variation in location, but do competitive specialties really get paid thousands more than FP?

Anyway, my main pt was having one 40K job in hand is worth more than 10 40K maybes. So 1 prematch may be worth more than a few maybe interviews in the Match. Especially when they all pay the close-enough money and in your field!

To use my analogy, it's like have Early Decision: Acceptance for Tufts and see if you can still be in the game for Harvard, Princeton, Yale by interviewing in those places. IF Yale accepts you too. Tufts and contracts be damned. Unfair.


The Thread Title is analogous: Going for the Prom Queen? When my ugly girlfriend prematched me? If Beauty Queen rejects me, I'll still take the prematch!

 

[gutonc]

Sorry for the wrong # in my original post (Post#31), but I was surprised to read in a book that the range is pretty small, something like $38,000-$42,000 for PGY-1s/1stResident/Interns. There'd of course be variation in location, but do competitive specialties really get paid thousands more than FP?

No. The salary variation comes between institutions not between specialties within an institution. So the PGY2 FM residents at Man's Greatest Hospital get paid the same as the PGY2 Derm and PGY2 Integrated Plastics residents there. Across town at Bob's Big House O' Medical Learninatin' and Doctorin', the PGY2 FM residents probably get paid a different amount than at Man's Greatest Hospital, but they get paid the same as all the other PGY2 residents at BBHOMLAD. There are some slight variations to this rule but not so much that it makes a big difference.

And the salary variation for PGY1 programs across the country has a range more like $38k - 58k.

Also, do yourself a favor and burn that copy of Iserson's you read this in. This is probably the least untrue thing in that book.

 

[VMSmith]

And most of the variation comes between cities.

A program in NYC is going to pay more than a program in Little Rock because the cost of living in NYC is so much higher.

 

[NicMouse64]

Bumping this as having a similar issue. What would happen if one were to accept a prematch offer but was unable to get ECFMG certified, but was already able to come the United States and has a work permit?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You should start your own thread, as the process has changed dramatically since this thread was written, and your question is actually completely different.

The ACGME requires that all IMg's be ECFMG certified, regardless of visa status. If you're not certified, you are unlikely to be able to start work. It will be up to the program/institution -- if they thought you would be certified in the near future, they might allow it.