Getting into surgery in Oz

[Keen]

Hi,

I'm just starting med school here in Australia and I've been offered a medical rural bonded scholarship which requires me to complete medical training and specialise (as a GP or specialist) and work in a rural area for 6 years for quite a lot of money.
As I am an undergraduate student the medicine course at this particular university is 6 years and by the conditions of the scholarship, one needs to complete the medical degree in 10 years and complete a specialty within 16 years of starting the medical course.
My question is presuming I can get through med school without having to repeat a year i.e. 6 years, leaving 10 years to become a specialist. How hard is it to become a specialitst in this time frame taking into account intership and residency, and getting into the different specialist colleges.
I'm thinking of either a GP (which I think would be definetly accomplishable in this time frame), or maybe a Orthopaedic surgeon which I believe requires two years of training with the Royal Aust. College of Surgeons and 4 years of training with the Orthopaedic college. Depending on when you can start the latter option only leaves 2/3 years for failing/waiting to get in, which I was wondering is this a problem?
How long does it take and what are my chances of accomplishing this within the specific time frame.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Cheers


Keen

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[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by Keen
Hi,

I'm just starting med school here in Australia and I've been offered a medical rural bonded scholarship which requires me to complete medical training and specialise (as a GP or specialist) and work in a rural area for 6 years for quite a lot of money.
As I am an undergraduate student the medicine course at this particular university is 6 years and by the conditions of the scholarship, one needs to complete the medical degree in 10 years and complete a specialty within 16 years of starting the medical course.
My question is presuming I can get through med school without having to repeat a year i.e. 6 years, leaving 10 years to become a specialist. How hard is it to become a specialitst in this time frame taking into account intership and residency, and getting into the different specialist colleges.
I'm thinking of either a GP (which I think would be definetly accomplishable in this time frame), or maybe a Orthopaedic surgeon which I believe requires two years of training with the Royal Aust. College of Surgeons and 4 years of training with the Orthopaedic college. Depending on when you can start the latter option only leaves 2/3 years for failing/waiting to get in, which I was wondering is this a problem?
How long does it take and what are my chances of accomplishing this within the specific time frame.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Cheers


Keen

Firstly since ur an australian u have no citizenship problems...so that issue isn't there. Currently most Australians apply to surgery after doing a couple of years as an RMO. If u are lucky though u can get in after only a 6 month ICU rotation..but this is not easy to do (to get in straight after internship). It all depends on ur luck, the contacts u make and ur references from ur registrars.

 

[craig_rt]

Try going to one of the Australian sites, likehttp://ausmedstudent.com/

I know that people there are under the MRBS and may be able to provide some insight.

Craig

 

[Purifyer]

I was reading an article on a female Orthopaedic surgeon in Australia. In passing she mentioned most trainees start [orthopaedic specific training] at 28 and finish at 32. Consider that most people enter medical school at 18.

Therefore at 24 they begin their intern (PRHO?) year. They will enter the basic surgery training at 26, meaning that they have spent an extra year doing something (possibly research?) at 25, or possibly during med school, et cetera.

So to answer your question, most orthopaedic surgeons have finished their training before 16 years has passed since matriculation into medical school.

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by Purifyer
I was reading an article on a female Orthopaedic surgeon in Australia. In passing she mentioned most trainees start [orthopaedic specific training] at 28 and finish at 32. Consider that most people enter medical school at 18.

Therefore at 24 they begin their intern (PRHO?) year. They will enter the basic surgery training at 26, meaning that they have spent an extra year doing something (possibly research?) at 25, or possibly during med school, et cetera.

So to answer your question, most orthopaedic surgeons have finished their training before 16 years has passed since matriculation into medical school.

thats true b/c most students do an RMO job for a while before they even apply to a training program. That being said i personally know of a guy who got in after just an internship...so it is possible.

 

[BrissieMD]

In Aust, if you want to be an Orthopaedic Surgeon, your career path will look something like this...
1) Graduate from medical school - hooray!
2) 1 year intern
3) Apply to the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons for Two years of Basic Training
4) Apply for 4+ years of Advanced Training
Total = med school + 7 years

If you want to be a GP, it'll look more like this...
1) Graduate from medical school
2) 1 year intern
3) 3 years training - this may change in the near future - a bunch of rural doctors are setting up their own rural GP training program

You can get information directly from the colleges or from this neat little book produced by the medical indemnity company United Medical (yes, the one that nearly got liquidated) called "Careers in Medicine: The United Handbook". You can join United for free & then you get this book for free!

 

[Keen]

Thanks for that info BrissieMD it was useful. However, in that time frame that you gave for Orthopaedic surgeon how likely is it that say an average student will get through that process, how long will it take them.
Also, that information on United how do I get that booklet. I tried their website but couldn't find the info.
Anyway thanks for your help

Keen

 

[BrissieMD]

I'm still a med student myself but I'd say the majority of ppl get into the Basic Training after internship. Advanced Training entry is something else - depends on which specialty you want to do it in. Orthopaedics, I'm told, is very competitive. Myself being one such competitor

But it's alright, you can still change your mind after Basic Training & do something else without starting from scratch.

I know lots of ppl on the MRBS & they aren't worried about the time frame - it's plenty.

And relax! You're only in first year. You might find after one too many sessions standing for hours in an operating theatre (observing as a med student) might put you off surgery. Or else the rare opportunities to hold retractors for hours might permanently cramp your fingers

I got my hands on the United Handbook at a Careers Expo - they ran out quickly.

 

[BrissieMD]

Had a glitch when i posted the above

 

[craig_rt]

In Aust, if you want to be an Orthopaedic Surgeon, your career path will look something like this...
1) Graduate from medical school - hooray!
2) 1 year intern
3) Apply to the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons for Two years of Basic Training
4) Apply for 4+ years of Advanced Training
Total = med school + 7 years

If you want to be a GP, it'll look more like this...
1) Graduate from medical school
2) 1 year intern
3) 3 years training - this may change in the near future - a bunch of rural doctors are setting up their own rural GP training program

I think that many of the training programs like you to have been a resident for a year or two before applying. And the competition to get into some specialties is high, so you may not get in on your first attempt. So I think you may need to add a couple of years in between 2 and 3.

Craig

 

[BrissieMD]

As I understand it, you are a resident as you're doing Basic Training (BT) and then become a registrar as you're doing Advanced Training.

I was speaking last night to a surgery resident doing BT & she said it was 50/50 on getting into BT from internship. Most get into AT & the College is moving to cut down numbers in BT so that almost all go on to AT.

BT costs $16,000!

 

[Purifyer]

Originally posted by BrissieMD
As I understand it, you are a resident as you're doing Basic Training (BT) and then become a registrar as you're doing Advanced Training.

I was speaking last night to a surgery resident doing BT & she said it was 50/50 on getting into BT from internship. Most get into AT & the College is moving to cut down numbers in BT so that almost all go on to AT.

BT costs $16,000!

Could you explain what you are talking about? When you say most get into AT... are you talking about orthopaedic AT, GS AT, any AT you want?

And what do you mean BT costs 16k? Do you mean the tests you sit to pass it?

 

[BrissieMD]

I can't be more specific than that - she just said 'most get into AT'. I imagine that if someone is keen to do AT in a specialty, they'll get some idea from their supervisors etc of their chances to get in. And most ppl would prob apply to the one they are most likely to get into.

She also said after finishing BT & you've failed to get into AT two or three times, the College steers you to a new (non-surgical) career path.

Just being officially on the list of Basic Trainees with the College costs $16,000 for the two years. A 'training fee', i guess. Not sure if the exams are extra