Duty hours, malignant Chief

[premed8888]

I am currently in a subspecialty integrated surgical program and I have a topic I wanted to bring up to see if anybody could weigh in on it. Our chief resident is about to graduate thankfully but she really is a piece of work. There have been multiple occasions where she tried to really start a fight with me and even publicly call me out for having my phone on silent when I am not on duty. She called me multiple times over time wanting information on a patient or she was trying to have me see a patient when I was not yet on duty for the day. I only keep my phone on silent when I am not on call and not on duty. After I sign out to the night team, My phone goes on silent PERIOD. She believes it is my duty to keep the phone on at all times and I don’t care if she is the chief resident, I have bit back hard each time and told her I simply won’t do that...then I don’t. It happened again today so I am partially venting but also asking fOr opinions. Today she tried to call me before my duty hours started and wanted me to see a patient to ensure that the night team had examined the patient properly and in sure that there wasn’t a worse or more acute issue at hand. Mind you, she lives down the street and less than five minutes from the hospital and could’ve easily come in and did her chief duties herself. She called me entitled because I keep my phone on silent but it appears that she is the entitled one thinking that everyone will drop what they are doing at any time and tend to her stupid self.

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[Wordead]

I would say you are nowhere close to being right and should be a NP or crna or some other shift worker if thats what you want.

 

[HighPriest]

As a resident: you have no free time. You are where you should be when you are expected to be there. I know ACGME disagrees, but residency is a proving ground. Now, if your chief/staff gives you time off, they shouldn’t renege.

As a staff doc: depends upon your situation. I’d you’re solo, you’re never off call if you have patients in house. If you have partners, you have to set some boundaries. The days of giving every minute of your life to medicine died when the respect, pay, and deference to medical expertise died. Society pulled that switch, not physicians.

 

[akwho]

You're a surgeon, a vascular surgery intern, from your post history. You choose, on your own accord, to join one of the most arduous fields in medicine. People will literally live and die, or lose limbs based on your decision to come into work. You are not a shift worker. If your colleagues text you about a patient it is to help patient care. If they are worried about a patient and ask you to check on them when you come in for your shift the answer should be I'll check on them twice. Most residents do not text other residents lightly on their time off.

This chief may be a piece of work, but you need a world view readjustment if you think you can be unreachable the moment you leave work. Your care for the surgical patient starts the moment you see them in clinic for preop and doesn't end until you discharge them from you clinic months or years later. You don't have this prospective yet as an intern, but you need to develop it ASAP. Complete responsibility for the patient and their outcome is the cornerstone of being a good surgeon. A critical part of that is being reachable when your colleagues have a question to help the care of the patient.

 

[Dave1980]

you may not like her but you're wrong here

 

[ricksimmonsrafowens]

Today she tried to call me before my duty hours started and wanted me to see a patient to ensure that the night team had examined the patient properly and in sure that there wasn’t a worse or more acute issue at hand.

when this happens you STFU and go see the patient.

why are you so eager to develop the reputation of an intern who doesn't care about clinical care and patients and your co residents? That's a dangerous attitude to have as an intern

 

[premed8888]

I’m not on call...we have multiple ppl in house 24/7 that are on pager...there is a call system with a schedule for a reason. Anyone with such a stern response is the real reason resident burnout and malignancy are a thing. And oh yeah? Acgme doesn’t agree with you and neither would the legal system. I have asked multiple attorneys that I know, some who specialize in occupational law, what their take is out of curiosity? I had a very different response...namely, at the deposition, they would immediately ask: “so are you saying, [chief resident], that you need [me] to provide competent care, even when you have a junior resident and intern in house when is not on call?”. With this post, I just wanted to see how broken and deranged the outlook in surgery still is...that is what is dangerous...malignancy and burnout.

 

[premed8888]

you may not like her but you're wrong here

Nope, the acgme does not think I’m wrong and neither does the legal system (if a problem were ever to arise). Surgical hierarchy does not mean you do whatever your chief wants you to do without question. She is just mad because she is bossy. I’m on cal tonight and guess what time my phone came off silent? Right at the stroke of the hour I’m on call.

 

[premed8888]

when this happens you STFU and go see the patient.

why are you so eager to develop the reputation of an intern who doesn't care about clinical care and patients and your co residents? That's a dangerous attitude to have as an intern

You can try what you said in your message. I am following what the acgme requires...I don’t care what the “chief” says when it’s against the expectations of the acgme.

 

[premed8888]

As a resident: you have no free time. You are where you should be when you are expected to be there. I know ACGME disagrees, but residency is a proving ground. Now, if your chief/staff gives you time off, they shouldn’t renege.

As a staff doc: depends upon your situation. I’d you’re solo, you’re never off call if you have patients in house. If you have partners, you have to set some boundaries. The days of giving every minute of your life to medicine died when the respect, pay, and deference to medical expertise died. Society pulled that switch, not physicians.

The most correct thing you said is that the acgme disagrees with her stance....that would have been a good place to stop the messages. She can’t do anything and neither can anyone because the acgme doesn’t agree with that Stance....

 

[premed8888]

You sign out to a night team so they know the patients...you leave the hospital....that night team is on...not you. Some people work to live and others live to work..

 

[HighPriest]

As it turns out, ACGME isn't always right about everything and surgical training metrics have in some studies demonstrated this. I hope you're not still in surgery, bud. You've got a real chip on your shoulder. I don't know you personally, or the specifics of your situation beyond what you've posted here, but the fact that you came on here just to "see if surgery was still malignant" tells me you've got too much time on your hands to begin with and that you need to learn to let things go.

Residency/fellowship is a very short time of your life. The goal is to learn as much as possible while you can. Once you're out and practicing, you're on your own. The biggest regrets I ever had my first couple of years in practice were that I didn't take more advantage of the opportunity to learn.

 

[premed8888]

As it turns out, ACGME isn't always right about everything and surgical training metrics have in some studies demonstrated this. I hope you're not still in surgery, bud. You've got a real chip on your shoulder. I don't know you personally, or the specifics of your situation beyond what you've posted here, but the fact that you came on here just to "see if surgery was still malignant" tells me you've got too much time on your hands to begin with and that you need to learn to let things go.

Residency/fellowship is a very short time of your life. The goal is to learn as much as possible while you can. Once you're out and practicing, you're on your own. The biggest regrets I ever had my first couple of years in practice were that I didn't take more advantage of the opportunity to learn.

I just care that I can stand on the acgme rules to stand against this chiefs bossiness.

 

[HighPriest]

Ok. What's that got to do with posting here?

Just keep in mind that if you're still in surgery, at some point you gotta come out from under momma bird's wing, and the vultures in the real world are much more vicious.

 

[Jolie South]

I am torn between two responses here.

On one hand, I was abused as a junior to do a ton of work that had little educational value and asked to do other team's work because their interns sucked. And we do need to take care of ourselves.

However, the tasks it sounds like she is asking you to do are reasonable things to ensure everything is going smoothly with your sick patients. She is not asking you to see dumb DVT or new AV access consults at 10 pm at night or other things that could wait until morning. Learning to do this is learning to take care of patients.

Also, the night team never knows your patients like you do. You know the exam. They do not. They hear a couple line sign out and may never examine the patient until something is "wrong."

Yes, the ACGME has rules, but when you are a chief and an attending patients don't just turn off their needs when you want to leave the hospital. And when you operate on someone, you take ownership of that patient and want them to do well. Sometimes, that means you do a little extra for peace of mind at night that everything is right. You are training for life not for residency or the ACGME.

If you are in the subspecialty other people are saying above, I can say as a graduating fellow, you will not do well if you don't want to do the extra mile. We get the privilege of practicing an incredible field that is very diverse, but at the same time, the margin for error is slim and potential for badness is high. This means we are on high alert and have to be meticulous.

 

[HighwayVagabond]

I, like @Jolie South, am torn in that I agree with everything in the above response regarding taking ownership of patients and going the extra mile (particularly in vascular, if that is the field we're discussing). However, I also think it can be dangerous if you have an intern holding the pager at night and another intern trying to simultaneously evaluate and manage a patient. As a very simple example, I would often work long before sign out as an intern and do things like electrolyte repletion, etc, before sign out and rounds. One day there was a junior holding the night pager that actually had their crap together and we double ordered K repletion on a patient. This was immediately caught and no adverse event occurred, but you can see how it could be confusing to expect two juniors to be covering patients simultaneously, and could lead to safety issues.

My guess, however, is that your chief may see a trend of you not taking ownership in general (based on the tone of your posting), and is trying to push you to be more aware of this and prepare you for being a senior level resident. It is even possible that the chief is hearing these concerns from your attendings and even more frustrated, because it is ultimately her responsibility to be an integral role in your training, and to demonstrate that she has the potential to train the juniors (especially if she is going into academic surgery). Not to sound cheesy, but I would encourage you to think of being a surgeon as a privilege, not a right, and it will probably make you consider your responsibilities and involvement in patient care in a different light.

 

[premed8888]

On the contrary, I have been receiving outstanding evals by my attendings and PD. I know it’s hard when you know nothing about me and you see this one complaint out of nowhere. I am all for seeing patients but not when she calls me in the middle of the night when I’m not on call or anything and gets mad because I wasn’t available to her. She has used me to avoid doing things herself as chief and I take my time off to recoup seriously. She has had multiple issues with our PAs and most of the residents don’t like her for similar types of bossiness.

 

[balaguru]

At some point in your career the ACGME rules will be made irrelevant and becoming a good doctor will follow from the work ethic you honed in residency.

 

[premed8888]

At some point in your career the ACGME rules will be made irrelevant and becoming a good doctor will follow from the work ethic you honed in residency.

Thanks, my work ethic is quite on point.

 

[DarkHorizon]

You’re gonna get your ass canned brother. I’d be careful with your attitude, you’re gonna find yourself on an island soon. Trust me, that’s a lonely place my friend, with no one to back you up when you’re in trouble. It’s ok to stand up for yourself, but what you’re doing is affecting patient care and is not acceptable.

 

[TonsilPlucker]

I am currently in a subspecialty integrated surgical program and I have a topic I wanted to bring up to see if anybody could weigh in on it. Our chief resident is about to graduate thankfully but she really is a piece of work. There have been multiple occasions where she tried to really start a fight with me and even publicly call me out for having my phone on silent when I am not on duty. She called me multiple times over time wanting information on a patient or she was trying to have me see a patient when I was not yet on duty for the day. I only keep my phone on silent when I am not on call and not on duty. After I sign out to the night team, My phone goes on silent PERIOD. She believes it is my duty to keep the phone on at all times and I don’t care if she is the chief resident, I have bit back hard each time and told her I simply won’t do that...then I don’t. It happened again today so I am partially venting but also asking fOr opinions. Today she tried to call me before my duty hours started and wanted me to see a patient to ensure that the night team had examined the patient properly and in sure that there wasn’t a worse or more acute issue at hand. Mind you, she lives down the street and less than five minutes from the hospital and could’ve easily come in and did her chief duties herself. She called me entitled because I keep my phone on silent but it appears that she is the entitled one thinking that everyone will drop what they are doing at any time and tend to her stupid self.

Troll post.

 

[thedrjojo]

Premed8888 is a *EDITED BY MODS*, but he's not entirely wrong. Interns and juniors come in earlier and often leave later than the chiefs, mainly because chiefs have more responsibility,and in my program, are all predominantly on home call. The intern and juniors get to sign out responsibilities, and we should be protecting that ability.

That being said, that doesn't mean when you are off that you should be unreachable. A) emergencies happen that you may be asked to cover for someone B) signout might be incomplete or your coworker might have a question that you are best suited to answer. This isn't violating work hours, this is just common decency C) they might want to coordinate stuff for when you do come back, ie, tell you about a new patient on your list, a new consult that or something you need to do as you start the day, or whatever.

It sounds like this is a work phone and not personal phone, which is nice they give you a work phone, and I know the temptation and desire to just escape and be done with it, but as others have said, the end game life is not a shift work, even in a few years it won't be shift work for you in residency. So, yeah, you had a particularly ****ty chief that's no longer there, and hopefully things get less ****ty, but I always tell everyone, and always told anyone, feel free to reach out whenever, even if I'm not on or on call, if you need my help. It goes a long way to be cordial and cooperative with your coresidents.

 

[thedrjojo]

I, like @Jolie South, am torn in that I agree with everything in the above response regarding taking ownership of patients and going the extra mile (particularly in vascular, if that is the field we're discussing). However, I also think it can be dangerous if you have an intern holding the pager at night and another intern trying to simultaneously evaluate and manage a patient. As a very simple example, I would often work long before sign out as an intern and do things like electrolyte repletion, etc, before sign out and rounds. One day there was a junior holding the night pager that actually had their crap together and we double ordered K repletion on a patient. This was immediately caught and no adverse event occurred, but you can see how it could be confusing to expect two juniors to be covering patients simultaneously, and could lead to safety issues.

My guess, however, is that your chief may see a trend of you not taking ownership in general (based on the tone of your posting), and is trying to push you to be more aware of this and prepare you for being a senior level resident. It is even possible that the chief is hearing these concerns from your attendings and even more frustrated, because it is ultimately her responsibility to be an integral role in your training, and to demonstrate that she has the potential to train the juniors (especially if she is going into academic surgery). Not to sound cheesy, but I would encourage you to think of being a surgeon as a privilege, not a right, and it will probably make you consider your responsibilities and involvement in patient care in a different light.

That's what sign out is for, and what clear responsibilities of a night team vs day team. Night float shouldn't be managing electrolytes unless it was signed out for them to do, or unless that's the standard in your program. I mean, most hospitals are nice enough not to wake people up at 4am to draw labs, our standard lab time is drawn between like 6-7am, and result at like 8am, well after night float should end. So in your example, either you got in early and didn't get sign out to know they repleted the labs, or they were around later than they should be and doing things that wasn't their responsibility to do...

 

[nlax30]

Also torn here.... in GENERAL there do need to be some boundaries so we can maintain some Mental sanity and have protected time away from work. Again, this essentially all changes once you’re an attending but there do need to be some protections during training.

That said.... use some common sense.... BS phone calls from the chief in middle night I agree should be brought up and addressed, but a call clarifying something after sign out is just plain professional courtesy to your fellow residents and you can quickly get labeled as not being a team player.

All this to say use some common sense. Nothing in life is black and white. Obviously you need to maintain duty hour restrictions and being asked to come in during your time off is probably unreasonable unless the program has some sort of backup call in place and spelled out. But just being a little available by phone to your colleagues is invaluable and not a burden in the scheme of things.

 

[LucidSplash]

Like others above I am torn. Most of what I would like to say has been enumerated by others, so I will not duplicate.

But for me the essence on the problem with your post is not being available to answer questions about your patient. As a junior resident, I experienced both a traditional call system and night float. Night float is a terrible system IMHO that doesn’t prepare residents for the reality of practice. But in addition, I found it contributed to much poorer continuity of care than a traditional call system. While I can think of fewer than 5 times that I called someone after signout to get clarification on something, those times were important. Additionally, being available to answer questions about patients was an important professional courtesy that was modeled for me by attendings throughout my career. I would not want to be in practice with a partner who would refuse to answer questions about their patients just because they weren’t on call. This facet of professional behavior should obviously not be abused, and if that is the case it should be addressed with the PD, and it certainly sounds like some of this phone traffic is unnecessary and inappropriate. But from my perspective, refusing to be available at all to answer questions about patients is also inappropriate, especially for a surgeon.

 

[HighwayVagabond]

That's what sign out is for, and what clear responsibilities of a night team vs day team. Night float shouldn't be managing electrolytes unless it was signed out for them to do, or unless that's the standard in your program. I mean, most hospitals are nice enough not to wake people up at 4am to draw labs, our standard lab time is drawn between like 6-7am, and result at like 8am, well after night float should end. So in your example, either you got in early and didn't get sign out to know they repleted the labs, or they were around later than they should be and doing things that wasn't their responsibility to do...

Yeah, you're kind of making my point...when you have a chief that expects you to be the leader because you are the 'on service day person', but there is a night person covering, some of these expectations can lead to overlap and unsafe circumstances. At the time, we drew labs at 0300, so they resulted around 4/430 and usually I would do everything I could remotely so that I could keep my formal 'in-hospital hours' at 80. I repleted, and then they tried to replete and saw that I had placed an order before they got to it. This is kind of a dumb example anyway, but my point is, things can get murky if a chief has unreasonable expectations. It is unclear to me, in this example, if the chief is being unreasonable.

To the OP, yes, there are malignant chiefs, and it is possible that is the circumstance you're dealing with, but I maintain that being a surgeon is not shiftwork, so I think there may be something positive you can learn from this chief, even in a setting that feels overwhelmingly negative to you in this moment.

 

[deleted480308]

The program is wrong, they can also hurt you more

 

[premed8888]

I fear my explanation hasn’t been sufficient. She has called me at inappropriate hours and because my phone was on silent her call...usually 3+ within the course of 5 minutes...would go unanswered. I DID call back in these instances usually within 10-15 min but she still yells. So that is when I bite back hard. People are calling it a courtesy and that I can agree with - but it’s not an obligation and she makes it sound like I’m breaking the rules; her response has been inappropriate. And for whoever said the program can hurt me more...yes and no...if they did something over this...yes it would hurt, but the legal repercussions for the program and the individual players (who would all have a lawsuit to individually deal with) would hurt even more.

 

[VincentAdultman]

And for whoever said the program can hurt me more...yes and no...if they did something over this...yes it would hurt, but the legal repercussions for the program and the individual players (who would all have a lawsuit to individually deal with) would hurt even more.

Yeah, definitely a hill worth dying on right here.

OP you’re not entirely wrong, but you’re also kind of being a dB. And FFS take your phone off silent.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

I agree with many of the comments and won't rehash regarding courtesy of being available by phone, regardless of whether you're "on". Through my training I don't think there has ever been standard periods where I considered myself unavailable to junior or senior residents regarding patient care information. Because of this, if there were times that I needed to be unreachable for whatever reasons I would simply let people know and they would respect those boundaries. I would like to think that because they knew I was a team player, they would be considerate in those times I needed them to be.

And as with all of these stories, I suspect there are two sides that are working to make the situation what it is. Yes, the chief may be overbearing or intense. But that is likely exacerbated by the OPs decision to be rigid about something most residents view as part of their responsibilities. OP you may be right when it comes to the letter of the law, but you're falling on the wrong side of "the spirit of the game". You're within your rights to do so, but don't expect your life is going to be made easier by so doing.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I’m not on call...we have multiple ppl in house 24/7 that are on pager...there is a call system with a schedule for a reason. Anyone with such a stern response is the real reason resident burnout and malignancy are a thing. And oh yeah? Acgme doesn’t agree with you and neither would the legal system. I have asked multiple attorneys that I know, some who specialize in occupational law, what their take is out of curiosity? I had a very different response...namely, at the deposition, they would immediately ask: “so are you saying, [chief resident], that you need [me] to provide competent care, even when you have a junior resident and intern in house when is not on call?”. With this post, I just wanted to see how broken and deranged the outlook in surgery still is...that is what is dangerous...malignancy and burnout.

 

[premed8888]

Yeah, definitely a hill worth dying on right here.

OP you’re not entirely wrong, but you’re also kind of being a dB. And FFS take your phone off silent.

I’m on call so my phones off silent...but when I’m off call... I’m going fishing and it’s going to be all silence phone wise.

 

[VincentAdultman]

I’m on call so my phones off silent...but when I’m off call... I’m going fishing and it’s going to be all silence phone wise.

Yeah I’m aware that you’re self-convinced of your righteousness and only came here for electronic pats on the back.

But just keep in mind that a bunch of grown-up surgeons are giving you tepid support at best.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

I’m on call so my phones off silent...but when I’m off call... I’m going fishing and it’s going to be all silence phone wise.

You seem convinced that what you're doing is right, so good for you. I'd only ask you come back and let us know how this works out when you're a senior/chief resident. At that point accountability isn't optional, and telling an attending "When I'm off, I'm off." is unlikely to maintain your self-described sterling reputation.

Should you decide to take a middle ground, I'd encourage you to embrace the value of "and". You can go fishing and be available for a phone call. Take the call, triage it appropriately and go back to fishing.

 

[deleted480308]

I fear my explanation hasn’t been sufficient. She has called me at inappropriate hours and because my phone was on silent her call...usually 3+ within the course of 5 minutes...would go unanswered. I DID call back in these instances usually within 10-15 min but she still yells. So that is when I bite back hard. People are calling it a courtesy and that I can agree with - but it’s not an obligation and she makes it sound like I’m breaking the rules; her response has been inappropriate. And for whoever said the program can hurt me more...yes and no...if they did something over this...yes it would hurt, but the legal repercussions for the program and the individual players (who would all have a lawsuit to individually deal with) would hurt even more.

If you push this and get yourself fired, remember we tried to help you avoid it

Good luck

 

[premed8888]

If you push this and get yourself fired, remember we tried to help you avoid it

Good luck

I wouldn’t get fired without large lawsuit winnings against multiple ppl...

 

[DarkHorizon]

I wouldn’t get fired without large lawsuit winnings against multiple ppl...

Now you’re just trolling us.

 

[Vandalia]

I wouldn’t get fired without large lawsuit winnings against multiple ppl...

It has been tried many, many times. It rarely, if ever, has succeeded. The best case scenario would be damages that amount to the salary remaining on your one year contract as a resident. No lawyer will take that on a contingency basis, and the attorney fees on an hourly basis would amount to more than the maximum damages.

You say in a previous post that you "spoke to multiple attorneys." There is only one reason that one would speak with "multiple attorneys": they told you the truth, you do not have a case.

 

[VincentAdultman]

I wouldn’t get fired without large lawsuit winnings against multiple ppl...

Well seems like a worthwhile gamble. Let us know how it goes!

 

[premed8888]

Well seems like a worthwhile gamble. Let us know how it goes!

This chief who is leaving in a week is the only person I’ve had a problem with...all reviews have been stellar and I am beyond my milestones for my year... my fellow residents know how competent I am and how much attention to detail I pay...you know as time goes on, I realize more and more that this is about that one stupid chief. If she was respectful I would entertain her....but I am simply not going to take her garbage.

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

This chief who is leaving in a week is the only person I’ve had a problem with...all reviews have been stellar and I am beyond my milestones for my year... my fellow residents know how competent I am and how much attention to detail I pay...you know as time goes on, I realize more and more that this is about that one stupid chief. If she was respectful I would entertain her....but I am simply not going to take her garbage.

So then why not run this by your co-residents? If you're so we'll regarded, surely they would be able to help provide some insight. And if it's "just one stupid chief", other people must have had similar issues. If they haven't, maybe it's time for some introspection to determine your role in the situation.

If she's leaving in a week, it's also unclear to me as to why this has you all hot and bothered. If you're looking for us to validate your feelings toward an anonymous third party without their version of the story, you've come to the wrong place.

 

[VincentAdultman]

...all reviews have been stellar and I am beyond my milestones for my year... my fellow residents know how competent I am and how much attention to detail I pay...you know as time goes on, I realize more and more that this is about that one stupid chief.

Welp. I’m convinced.

 

[VincentAdultman]

This chief who is leaving in a week is the only person I’ve had a problem with...all reviews have been stellar and I am beyond my milestones for my year... my fellow residents know how competent I am and how much attention to detail I pay...you know as time goes on, I realize more and more that this is about that one stupid chief. If she was respectful I would entertain her....but I am simply not going to take her garbage.

Also, when you disclose this:

Today she tried to call me before my duty hours started and wanted me to see a patient to ensure that the night team had examined the patient properly and in sure that there wasn’t a worse or more acute issue at hand. Mind you, she lives down the street and less than five minutes from the hospital and could’ve easily come in and did her chief duties herself.

Maybe a LIIIIIIIIIIIITLE self reflection may be in order. Because maybe you just aren’t the super awesome resident you think you are.

 

[Elach]

I’m on call so my phones off silent...but when I’m off call... I’m going fishing and it’s going to be all silence phone wise.

 

[premed8888]

Also, when you disclose this:



Maybe a LIIIIIIIIIIIITLE self reflection may be in order. Because maybe you just aren’t the super awesome resident you think you are.

My evals speak to the contrary.... I’m doing very well operatively and clinically. That’s also the reputation I have.

 

[VincentAdultman]

My evals speak to the contrary.... I’m doing very well operatively and clinically. That’s also the reputation I have.

Like I said, you came here for affirmation so you’ll do what you do. Good luck with everything, and if you’re trolling, then well played.

 

[Merely]

Leave surgery and go do EM

 

[TonsilPlucker]

This chief who is leaving in a week is the only person I’ve had a problem with...all reviews have been stellar and I am beyond my milestones for my year... my fellow residents know how competent I am and how much attention to detail I pay...you know as time goes on, I realize more and more that this is about that one stupid chief. If she was respectful I would entertain her....but I am simply not going to take her garbage.

I’ll take the bait.

Look I wish you no ill will and hope that you become a competent physician that does the right thing for his/her patients. There’s a fine line between respecting duty hours and doing the right thing for your patients and your training, if doing so means you work 82 hours instead of 80, so be it.

When you get to the big boy leagues and are taking 24/7 call for a week, see a consult at 2 am and have a full day of OR or clinic to follow, the only person you’re gonna want to sue is yourself for not realizing this is what being a surgeon means.

When I’m not on call, I’m available to at least answer questions by phone to my referring physicians. This Is how you maintain job security and respect in the community.

Remember the three A’s: Available, affable and able. Probably in that order.

Hopefully things get better now that the chief is gone. Remember, if there are dinguses wherever you go, you might be the dingus. (Apparently dingus is auto substituted for the word I’m trying to type lol)

 

[premed8888]

I’ll take the bait.

Look I wish you no ill will and hope that you become a competent physician that does the right thing for his/her patients. There’s a fine line between respecting duty hours and doing the right thing for your patients and your training, if doing so means you work 82 hours instead of 80, so be it.

When you get to the big boy leagues and are taking 24/7 call for a week, see a consult at 2 am and have a full day of OR or clinic to follow, the only person you’re gonna want to sue is yourself for not realizing this is what being a surgeon means.

When I’m not on call, I’m available to at least answer questions by phone to my referring physicians. This Is how you maintain job security and respect in the community.

Remember the three A’s: Available, affable and able. Probably in that order.

Hopefully things get better now that the chief is gone. Remember, if there are dinguses wherever you go, you might be the dingus. (Apparently dingus is auto substituted for the word I’m trying to type lol)

No it’s just her lol

 

[Jolie South]

All’s I can say is that as a senior once I signed out to the night team, my attendings gave no craps that I wasn’t at the hospital if they wanted to check in on the status of a patient. Saying I am off and not responding to a call was not acceptable. You can keep on doing it and follow the letter of ACGME, but let me know how much operative autonomy and experience you get when you aren’t willing to even answer calls when you are “off” for the night.

I am not saying any of this to “be malignant” or “I suffered, so you suffer.” I only ask my juniors to do things that I am willing and have done myself. This is just global patient care.