Did somebody make you cry? (Bullying)

[Tangerine123]

It happened to me twice in my surgery rotation. After a 24h shift I was expected to present the patient in our morning rounds. Most patients are admitted during the night for ambulatory surgery the next day. I was at the ER the whole shift, so I hadn't had any contact with the newly admitted patients.

So there I am, in front of residents, other students and patients. I said that I didn't know the patient's history or why they were admited, let alone stuff like lab results and radiologic findings. The attending (who was in charge of our surgery rotation) then proceeds to belittle me saying that I was a total failure and that i'll be a terrible doctor if I ever even graduate. I then went to the nursing station's bathroom to cry for like 20mins.

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[FistLength]

Yeah, that hurts.

1. Next time be prepared
2. Medical education can be humiliating. I don't agree with name calling or debasing students. That being said, tough situations and fear of reprisal tend to separate cream from the crop, or at least encourage students to study/be prepared beyond what they would have normally done. Unfortunately there will be many times in your training where nice thoughts won't be available, and you will make mistakes and have to see the ramifications on real patients. The stakes are high, and thus so are the expectations.
3. You won't be a terrible doctor, the wounds will scar over and you will be stronger for it. Learn from your mistakes, chin up, and fight another day.

 

[FalconSlice]

It happened to me twice in my surgery rotation. After a 24h shift I was expected to present the patient in our morning rounds. Most patients are admitted during the night for ambulatory surgery the next day. I was at the ER the whole shift, so I hadn't had any contact with the newly admitted patients.

So there I am, in front of residents, other students and patients. I said that I didn't know the patient's history or why they were admited, let alone stuff like lab results and radiologic findings. The attending (who was in charge of our surgery rotation) then proceeds to belittle me saying that I was a total failure and that i'll be a terrible doctor if I ever even graduate. I then went to the nursing station's bathroom to cry for like 20mins.

I'm sorry this happened to you. Although this isn't professional on the part of the attending, sometimes, you have to just deal with this kind of culture. Are you a new M3? The reason I ask is because it seems like you knew that you had to present on morning rounds, so you could've scraped together like 15-30 minutes during your entire 24 hour shift to quickly chart-stalk via EHR (or other means) to be up-to-date on the patients. And then, before you present, give a quick framing statement like "I haven't seen this patient because I was busy but [present patient here]." In surgery, it's much better to give a sh***y presentation and try your hardest than to not try at all and say "I don't know these patients or anything, sorry" (as I'm sure you're finding out). Plus, it's surgery, presentations are like 2 min.

 

[hmockingbird]

Agree with the others. The way the attending handled this was unprofessional (at the least, don’t berate a student, but I would’ve just moved on and talked to you privately later). However, presenting a patient you admitted overnight while on call is a pretty standard and reasonable expectation. Maybe your residents forgot to warn you — it is the beginning of the year — but don’t make this mistake again.

 

[Tangerine123]

Agree with the others. The way the attending handled this was unprofessional (at the least, don’t berate a student, but I would’ve just moved on and talked to you privately later). However, presenting a patient you admitted overnight while on call is a pretty standard and reasonable expectation. Maybe your residents forgot to warn you — it is the beginning of the year — but don’t make this mistake again.

Sadly I didn't admit the patient. I had never seen them before ahahaha. They were admitted via the outpatient department and I was at the ER the whole shift. Also, this was a few years ago.

 

[thumbz]

What's the purpose of this thread years later? If you're still this focused/hurt from this experience it may be worth talking to someone professionally, by now this should be a distant memory. You know full well you got dropped into a no-win situation with a crappy attending. If someone can help you learn coping mechanisms for situations like this I promise it will be worth its weight in gold throughout the rest of your career. You'll have ample experiences in the future of being yelled at by patients, colleagues, subspecialists and admin.

I remember getting absolutely reamed in front of patients/staff/nurses/residents/other attendings by an ID doc in the middle of a nurses station for a mistake that was not even mine. Other than a cautionary tale I use for interns on how to talk to consultants, I've never thought about it much since. Stuff like this happens all the time - heck I still get yelled at by people as an attending.

 

[Tangerine123]

I've been yelled at (and even spat on and bitten!) by attendings and patients ahaha. It's ok.
I mean, the situation I described ended just fine. I graduated and never saw that attending again. But i'm sure stuff like this happens often. I just wanted to start a thread with people chiming in with similar experiences. Hear them out.

 

[Dr. Brandon Green]

Cool thread. Sweet memories! During gen surg residency I had an attending who they would put peel pack broken instruments on table, right in front. Because staff knew within 5 minutes of case starting he would throw those instruments against the wall in anger. One time he stuck himself with a needle that went through the patient. He threw the needle against the wall of the OR looked down at the inner city female patient and said “damn, if I’m going to get hiv at least let me f@#k her first!” Times have changed for the better...I think.

 

[CautiousLearner]

It happened to me twice in my surgery rotation. After a 24h shift I was expected to present the patient in our morning rounds. Most patients are admitted during the night for ambulatory surgery the next day. I was at the ER the whole shift, so I hadn't had any contact with the newly admitted patients.

So there I am, in front of residents, other students and patients. I said that I didn't know the patient's history or why they were admited, let alone stuff like lab results and radiologic findings. The attending (who was in charge of our surgery rotation) then proceeds to belittle me saying that I was a total failure and that i'll be a terrible doctor if I ever even graduate. I then went to the nursing station's bathroom to cry for like 20mins.

A lot of problems in med school emerge when we try to reinvent the wheel. It sounds like you had a bad schedule, which is understandable, talk to other students in upper classes and among your class.

With regards to making you cry, look Medicine has a horrible culture especially hospital medicine [surgery, IM] as a junior doc. I say it from experience. Any one, Any one with even an iota of power over you will not hesitate to make you aware of that fact. I am a resident [intern] and even now, I will get yelled at by some patients, case managers and nurses, attending and senior residents.

At first I used to cry to, but, two things:
1. Realize why a comment is being made, get past their attitude and try to understand the root cause.
2. Develop a thick skin QUICKLY!

A lot of it is stress, when you face stress you consciously or unconcisouly transmit it to your underlings.