Dayton VA Podiatric residency

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Dry Risk

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The 1st year is basically all clinic and ZERO surgery. Even the emergent cases that come in are prepared by the 1st years and handed off to the second years. In 2nd year you will finish all your numbers by traveling to outside affiliates. You will get your pediatric numbers from the nearby air force base which is a 2 week rotation (to cover 3 years)with pediatric MD/DO residents. Most patients are there for constipation purposes.You will only finish your required numbers and then 3rd year you are back in clinic all day every day. You are 1st on call as a first year for 2 weeks. You will have a 2nd on call resident but the entire load falls on the 1st call. The outside attendings barely let you participate in the cases and will not allow you to do notes. Most graduates have basic understanding of even suturing.The attendings there are toxic and have a habit of not working with certain residents. All the attendings in that VA with one exception will only do surgery once a year to keep their license. Friday academics is a joke. Journal club is online watching ACFAS videos.

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there is a thread for residency posts that i think this should go into!

that being said seems up to par with pretty much every VA program
 
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simon cowell facepalm GIF
 
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Yes... Forum Members - PMSR/RRA Residency Reviews


Yeah... and many other pod residency programs. Night and day differences. It's too bad.

We should increase approved resident spots at them to accommodate the added upcoming UT and LECOM grads? :unsure:


:(
Not to mention the quality of applicants is much worse than prior. Almost like making school unaffordable with a poor ROI and job market discourages students from applying.
 
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This is common knowledge that most lower end podiatry residencies are basically inadequate... too much clinic, far too little surgery, bogus logging, too few good attendings and acadmics, and a recipe to fail boards. That sets people up to do nothing but wound care and C&C menial work that you could do without residency in most states. Big waste. It will be very dangerous to scramble in coming years once newest schools are pumping grads out.

However, you guys would honestly be surprised how many good or average podiatry training programs also have pgy1s do little besides inpatient rounds, "research," and run the clinics. There are only so many attendings, so many surgery cases, and so many residents they can scrub in on each case. They have to send most of the residents elsewhere to keep them busy - especially in months when they may have clerks they want to get into the OR. Even at some higher end podiatry programs, pgy1s basically just do the I&D slop work and second or third scrub anything recon or trauma. It's unfortunate but true.

Meanwhile, ortho pgy2s can bang out ankle fractures or radius fractures, pgy2 gen surg can do breast surgery or hernias and most other basics (to them) stuff fast and well... and they can also manage ICU patients. They even make weekly and daily academics between OR work. Hmm.

There are some very good and some very underrated DPM residencies where you will be legit busy from day 1 of pgy1.
Clerk and check out some of the Detroit and Kentucky or Texas programs and find out for yourself.
It is is imperative, in podiatry, that one maxes out clerkships and visits and creates good options. It's critical to get best training, skills, job options, and best ROI for tuition that's possible.
  • "Students don't scrub in" = bad ... "We're outta residents since there are so many cases on the board today, so extern Bob is going to go do hammertoes with the attending" = good.
  • "Required research" and "putting together a PowerPoint for Dr. B" = make the attending famous ... XR and M&M and organized academics = good pearls from seniors and attendings, good board prep.
  • Rounding in groups of 4 and 6 and then rounding again with attending = uh huh ... Rounding resident solo or resident + student = legit busy.
  • Pgy1s and even students doing surgery or parts of it = good ... pgy1s nowhere to be found except in the library, 4th assist doing nothing, or looking ragged from hospital rounds or C&C clinic = danger, Will Robinson.
  • Pgy3s taking common cases because they need to learn = bad ... Pgy3s mainly teaching juniors and taking only rare/toughest cases = the way it should be.

There really is a huge lack of cases and good attendings in nearly all DPM residencies compared to MD/DO. It's sad but true. Even our elite programs mostly have issues (because CPME always pushes them to add spots due too added grads, which dilutes training). Most DPM programs also lack academics and teaching hospital sponsor, and we wonder why our ABFAS board pass rates are bad. Worst, now we are taking surgical cases out of residencies to put them in candy azz fellowships since pgy3s haven't had enough reps, lack enough real exp, and job market demand for them is low... basically just creating a 4th year of residency elsewhere. But hey, let's open some new schools. :)
 
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The problems with this program have been ongoing for years. A classmate went there and was frustrated by the weak surgical training. The weakest student to ever graduate DMU went here and lost their license while in residency. There was another horrible story I was told that was so weird I struggle to believe it but it seemed to be something to the effect that the program took on a student with a criminal record that shouldn't have been possible at a VA.

I was told this program just wants bodies.

Its interesting to me how programs fly under the radar. I'm not sure if its because no one wants to shame them or maybe they just aren't having many student visitors and pick residents up in the scramble.
 
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It’s pretty bad and likely CPME should investigate
 
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It’s pretty bad and likely CPME should investigate
As they should. I can only imagine your frustration. Proper training is important in our profession.

What are your thoughts or plans regarding this?
 
Sad to hear that. I am probably one of the very few KSUCPM people who loved rotating at the VA, but then again I was up at the Cleveland VA and one of the other nearby CBOCs. Goes to show you the variability of training among programs.
 
True i agree i think the UT and lecom additions will lead to many podiatry grads to have nothing at the end of the tunnel. The sad part of podiatry is that the old generation very often tends to try and devour the young. Many attendings refuse to work and train their own residents. Without adequate training our field will not be represented adequately in already dangerously competitive medical world.
 
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True i agree i think the UT and lecom additions will lead to many podiatry grads to have nothing at the end of the tunnel. The sad part of podiatry is that the old very often eat the young. Many attendings refuse to work and train their own residents. Without adequate training our field will not be represented adequately in already dangerously competitive medical world.

Writing a program review and posting it in the thread mentioned above is probably best. Thanks.
 
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The 1st year is basically all clinic and ZERO surgery. Even the emergent cases that come in are prepared by the 1st years and handed off to the second years. In 2nd year you will finish all your numbers by traveling to outside affiliates. You will get your pediatric numbers from the nearby air force base which is a 2 week rotation (to cover 3 years)with pediatric MD/DO residents. Most patients are there for constipation purposes.You will only finish your required numbers and then 3rd year you are back in clinic all day every day. You are 1st on call as a first year for 2 weeks. You will have a 2nd on call resident but the entire load falls on the 1st call. The outside attendings barely let you participate in the cases and will not allow you to do notes. Most graduates have basic understanding of even suturing.The attendings there are toxic and have a habit of not working with certain residents. All the attendings in that VA with one exception will only do surgery once a year to keep their license. Friday academics is a joke. Journal club is online watching ACFAS videos.
You seem pretty insightful with this program, did you graduate residency there? A past extern?
 
I’d like to not reveal my identity. I just want to be insightful for future cohorts.

That's fair. I've heard the surgery months aren't as bad as you mention, as I know residents there that have scrubbed in for total ankle replacements.
 
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That's fair. I've heard the surgery months aren't as bad as you mention, as I know residents there that have scrubbed in for total ankle replacements.
If they give all the dirty cases to the second year I can guarantee they aren’t surgically strong enough to do anything except retract for a total joint. Sounds like a terrible program . There are plenty of programs who go skin to skin on totals but it’s because they have EXTENSIVE surgical training with strong hand skills. A place that doesn’t hand you the blade on day 1 like this program is just using you for cheap labor.

This is common knowledge that most lower end podiatry residencies are basically inadequate... too much clinic, far too little surgery, bogus logging, too few good attendings and acadmics, and a recipe to fail boards. That sets people up to do nothing but wound care and C&C menial work that you could do without residency in most states. Big waste. It will be very dangerous to scramble in coming years once newest schools are pumping grads out.

However, you guys would honestly be surprised how many good or average podiatry training programs also have pgy1s do little besides inpatient rounds, "research," and run the clinics. There are only so many attendings, so many surgery cases, and so many residents they can scrub in on each case. They have to send most of the residents elsewhere to keep them busy - especially in months when they may have clerks they want to get into the OR. Even at some higher end podiatry programs, pgy1s basically just do the I&D slop work and second or third scrub anything recon or trauma. It's unfortunate but true.

Meanwhile, ortho pgy2s can bang out ankle fractures or radius fractures, pgy2 gen surg can do breast surgery or hernias and most other basics (to them) stuff fast and well... and they can also manage ICU patients. They even make weekly and daily academics between OR work. Hmm.

There are some very good and some very underrated DPM residencies where you will be legit busy from day 1 of pgy1.
Clerk and check out some of the Detroit and Kentucky or Texas programs and find out for yourself.
It is is imperative, in podiatry, that one maxes out clerkships and visits and creates good options. It's critical to get best training, skills, job options, and best ROI for tuition that's possible.
  • "Students don't scrub in" = bad ... "We're outta residents since there are so many cases on the board today, so extern Bob is going to go do hammertoes with the attending" = good.
  • "Required research" and "putting together a PowerPoint for Dr. B" = make the attending famous ... XR and M&M and organized academics = good pearls from seniors and attendings, good board prep.
  • Rounding in groups of 4 and 6 and then rounding again with attending = uh huh ... Rounding resident solo or resident + student = legit busy.
  • Pgy1s and even students doing surgery or parts of it = good ... pgy1s nowhere to be found except in the library, 4th assist doing nothing, or looking ragged from hospital rounds or C&C clinic = danger, Will Robinson.
  • Pgy3s taking common cases because they need to learn = bad ... Pgy3s mainly teaching juniors and taking only rare/toughest cases = the way it should be.

There really is a huge lack of cases and good attendings in nearly all DPM residencies compared to MD/DO. It's sad but true. Even our elite programs mostly have issues (because CPME always pushes them to add spots due too added grads, which dilutes training). Most DPM programs also lack academics and teaching hospital sponsor, and we wonder why our ABFAS board pass rates are bad. Worst, now we are taking surgical cases out of residencies to put them in candy azz fellowships since pgy3s haven't had enough reps, lack enough real exp, and job market demand for them is low... basically just creating a 4th year of residency elsewhere. But hey, let's open some new schools. :)
Feli’s advice is what students should use as a framework for picking and ranking externships.
 
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