D.O. Student Orthopedic Surgery Matched-AMA

[TheBoneDoctah]

I am a PGY2 in IM; I was asking because you did not mention that you took step2 and what was your score.

My USMLE Step 2 was in the 240s and COMLEX Level 2 in the mid 600s. I didn’t mention them because the Step 2/Level 2 are not NEARLY as important (I’ve literally been told by PDs that if you did well on Step 1, as long as you don’t bomb Step 2, we don’t care). Again, this could be specialty/PD specific, but this has been my experience, so take it with a grain of salt.

I have also added my Step 2 and Level 2 to that post.

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[TheBoneDoctah]

I added a bunch of stats to first post I did earlier in the thread.

 

[Aleaz]

Congrats! (caps are for emphasis, not shouts
I urge everyone interested in any MD Residency to take the MD testing even if it's pass/fail. I also urge everyone who is not really sure what they want to NOT choose a Specialty until they are as it is your LIFE. I unfortunately got cancer my last year of medical school--made it thru til grad, then on 7 June, had massive surgery and chemo after that--had a year off, and SURVIVED. But I lost my surgical slot and it was not 'saved' for the following year. So as a pariah everyone was afraid to hire, I did a rotating DO Internship up at Botsford. dunno if it's still as good a program but when I transferred out to Mayo--I was WAY AHEAD of them,( used to large patient loads, hard calls, etc.) I had no idea how good a program that was until then as I was anxious to leave and get into an MD program.

So all you guys who either don't match or are unsure...don't discount a rotating Internship. It's only a year and it is GREAT training .
Also--longwinded today
TAKE THE RESIDENCIES IN AREAS OF HIGH PATIENT LOAD. Mayo was BORING, unless you want to stand knee deep behind other Residents or are a research Fellow. No one wanted the Resident when they flew in for the Attending! GO WHERE THEY NEED YOU. Detroit rocked, inner city areas, the Bronx...etc. If you want hands on knowledge--ortho or otherwise...
Ivy League looks GOOD ON THE WALL but your training sucks.
I was blacklisted because I LEFT Mayo Clinic because I never got my hands dirty!!! The program I transferred INTO did NOT take Mayo and I had to repeat that year because I had too small a patient load, too few procedures and not enough experience on cal to match their Residents!
LIVE and LEARN from me!

So--remember that for wherever you decide!
aloha

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Matched previously-AOA program!


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[medicalgeek101]

Matched previously-AOA program!


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I’ve heard that there is talk that COMLEX may eventually become optional. Of course, it’s not reality yet; but, as you matched to a previously-AOA program, do you think DO students should definitely take and ace the COMLEX for matching into those previously-AOA ortho programs if that becomes a reality?
Did the MD programs that you applied to also paid a good deal of attention to your COMLEX?


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[TheBoneDoctah]

I’ve heard that there is talk that COMLEX may eventually become optional. Of course, it’s not reality yet; but, as you matched to a previously-AOA program, do you think DO students should definitely take and ace the COMLEX for matching into those previously-AOA ortho programs if that becomes a reality?
Did the MD programs that you applied to also paid a good deal of attention to your COMLEX?


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I haven’t heard that it will become optional anywhere. Where did you hear that? The DO programs favor the COMLEX more from what I experienced. The MD programs don’t even know what COMLEX is lol. I would still take both and try and ace both.


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[Kardio]

I’ve heard that there is talk that COMLEX may eventually become optional.

AFAIK, there is only talk of making Level 1 P/F

IMPORTANT UPDATES: COMLEX-USA Examination Program — NBOME

www.nbome.org

 

[medicalgeek101]

I haven’t heard that it will become optional anywhere. Where did you hear that? The DO programs favor the COMLEX more from what I experienced. The MD programs don’t even know what COMLEX is lol. I would still take both and try and ace both.


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I think SOMA is making a petition about this or something, but the convention was cancelled because of COVID-19. I mean, I hope it works out. If not my generation, it definitely will workout for the next.

Meanwhile, I was thinking of taking the USMLE 1 first and then schedule COMLEX two weeks after so I can study OMT. Would you approve off of this plan? While studying OMT, is it a good idea to study the First Aid book again?


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[TheBoneDoctah]

I think SOMA is making a petition about this or something, but the convention was cancelled because of COVID-19. I mean, I hope it works out. If not my generation, it definitely will workout for the next.

Meanwhile, I was thinking of taking the USMLE 1 first and then schedule COMLEX two weeks after so I can study OMT. Would you approve off of this plan? While studying OMT, is it a good idea to study the First Aid book again?


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Absolutely. I don’t think you need two weeks though. 4-5 days is what you need. Any longer than that and you start forgetting details plus your motivation will be zapped (especially if you don’t feel great about your Step performance).


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[DarkHorizon]

Overall, strong showing from osteopaths in the match. Looks like 112 DO seniors matched and 6 previous DO grads matched.

This is great given that quite a few DO programs didn’t accept new residents this year. Had to be quite few osteopaths matching in MD programs.

Seems like there are a couple of you that are regular posters here, you’re now a great resource to guys/gals behind you. SDN has been, without a doubt, the most important resource for me over the years in shaping my career, still here 15 years later.

 

[Preston Garvey]

I think SOMA is making a petition about this or something, but the convention was cancelled because of COVID-19. I mean, I hope it works out. If not my generation, it definitely will workout for the next.

Meanwhile, I was thinking of taking the USMLE 1 first and then schedule COMLEX two weeks after so I can study OMT. Would you approve off of this plan? While studying OMT, is it a good idea to study the First Aid book again?


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Schedule your USMLE step 1 on a Monday and COMLEX 1 the following Friday. 3 days is more then enough to read savarese and do all the OMM questions in whatever qbank you are using

 

[L3SideBentLeft]

Congrats on matching and the thorough information you have provided in your posts. I did want to ask what former AOA programs are known to want really high COMLEX/USMLE scores? I know Doctors, UPMC, Metro prefer 600+ (probably more).

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Congrats on matching and the thorough information you have provided in your posts. I did want to ask what former AOA programs are known to want really high COMLEX/USMLE scores? I know Doctors, UPMC, Metro prefer 600+ (probably more).

Here's the thing with board scores. When people say, "this program wants high board scores" what does that mean, exactly? If you ask any program director, I am pretty sure they aren't gonna be like, "yeah, we don't care at all about boards." I am sure every program LIKES high boards. Some programs may put more emphasis on board scores for interviews at places that you don't audition at. For example, I know for a fact Modesto took all the non-auditoning applications, ranked them, and then selected the top board scores to interview (so I would consider Modesto to be a "board caring" program). The program director has also literally said at conferences that he doesn't even look at apps under 700.

Doctors Hospital is THOUGHT to be one of these programs, however, there are residents there that had mid-500s boards (from what I have heard from auditioners), so I am not so sure how true that is.

I think the "do boards matter" really applies mostly to the places you aren't auditioning and how many non-auditioning interviews you will get. Some of my buddies had 850 COMLEXs and 260s Steps and got 10+ non-auditioning interviews. I had 250s Step and 660s COMLEX and got less than that, so obviously there is some "board score bias" that is happening, which makes sense.

For ortho as a whole though, they look at your entire application and your audition. For the vast majority of programs, if you are in the 600 range, you are going to be treated the same as the person who got a 700. If you are likable and work hard, they will take you with a 550 over the douchy 750 guy. Work hard, get a good score on boards, don't be douchy, get some research, SHOW UP ON TIME TO AUDITIONS, and know your ortho and 7/10 times you will match. Ortho is super competitive and I know multiple people this year that I thought for sure would match and they went unmatched.

 

[allinthehips]

How did you determine which programs to do away rotations at? Say I like some the Ohio and Michigan programs, there are a lot to choose from. Same question for deciding which traditionally ACGME programs to rotate at, is it clear which programs consider DO's and which are strongly opposed?

 

[deleted407021]

Just popping in to say congrats!

I know I’ll be working with ortho a whole lot in peds.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

How did you determine which programs to do away rotations at? Say I like some the Ohio and Michigan programs, there are a lot to choose from. Same question for deciding which traditionally ACGME programs to rotate at, is it clear which programs consider DO's and which are strongly opposed?

I chose the places based on which programs limited rotators and interviews. People have different views on this, but my main goal was to become an orthopedic surgeon. Therefore, I did not at the huge programs. I chose smaller, less "well-known" programs that limited their rotators and interviews. I would rather become an orthopedic surgeon in Antarctica than try and go to California and not get in, basically.

Personally, I would not rotate at any ACGME places. You have a limited amount of auditions. Some schools only allow 3. Others, like mine, allow unlimited so I was able to do 6. Again, why waste a month at a place that MOST LIKELY will ghost you when it comes time to rank? This whole ortho process is a numbers game. Again, I keep referring back to people who didn't match, but of the people last year and this year that did not match, this was an underlying theme. They all rotated at big name places and interviewed, but when you have 50+ interviews, what's the chances that YOU will be ranked top 3-5....? Much lower than if you get an interview at a place that only interviews 10.

PLAY THE NUMBER GAME. BECOME AN ORTHO SURGEON.
PLAY THE WHERE DO I REALLY WANNA GO GAME, RISK NOT MATCHING.

 

[DNC127]

I chose the places based on which programs limited rotators and interviews. People have different views on this, but my main goal was to become an orthopedic surgeon. Therefore, I did not rotate places that I would have REALLY wanted to go (Doctors, Grandview, etc, the big places). I chose smaller, less "well-known" programs that limited their rotators and interviews. I would rather become an orthopedic surgeon in Antarctica than try and go to California and not get in, basically.

Personally, I would not rotate at any ACGME places. You have a limited amount of auditions. Some schools only allow 3. Others, like mine, allow unlimited so I was able to do 6. Again, why waste a month at a place that MOST LIKELY will ghost you when it comes time to rank? This whole ortho process is a numbers game. Again, I keep referring back to people who didn't match, but of the people last year and this year that did not match, this was an underlying theme. They all rotated at big name places and interviewed, but when you have 50+ interviews, what's the chances that YOU will be ranked top 3-5....? Much lower than if you get an interview at a place that only interviews 10.

PLAY THE NUMBER GAME. BECOME AN ORTHO SURGEON.
PLAY THE WHERE DO I REALLY WANNA GO GAME, RISK NOT MATCHING.

This is the most important post about ortho as a DO. Both me and synaptic had apps that we could have hung with anyone. Played it safe though, and had multiple programs telling me that I was RTM or highly ranked. I’m sure it was same for synaptic. Whereas I know people who shot their shot on big places and it didn’t work out.

 

[DarkHorizon]

I chose the places based on which programs limited rotators and interviews. People have different views on this, but my main goal was to become an orthopedic surgeon. Therefore, I did not rotate places that I would have REALLY wanted to go (Doctors, Grandview, etc, the big places). I chose smaller, less "well-known" programs that limited their rotators and interviews. I would rather become an orthopedic surgeon in Antarctica than try and go to California and not get in, basically.

Personally, I would not rotate at any ACGME places. You have a limited amount of auditions. Some schools only allow 3. Others, like mine, allow unlimited so I was able to do 6. Again, why waste a month at a place that MOST LIKELY will ghost you when it comes time to rank? This whole ortho process is a numbers game. Again, I keep referring back to people who didn't match, but of the people last year and this year that did not match, this was an underlying theme. They all rotated at big name places and interviewed, but when you have 50+ interviews, what's the chances that YOU will be ranked top 3-5....? Much lower than if you get an interview at a place that only interviews 10.

PLAY THE NUMBER GAME. BECOME AN ORTHO SURGEON.
PLAY THE WHERE DO I REALLY WANNA GO GAME, RISK NOT MATCHING.

Can’t emphasize this enough, any program you match at is a good program. Look for places that limit the rotators and only interview rotators, so you’re not lost in the crowd.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

I have had many people send me PMs. Please try and post on the thread so that other students can use my responses to your questions!

 

[Billroth_III]

Essentially, it’s the same advice. Good letters, good scores, good auditions, and know your general surgery. For ortho, there is a new book called Pocket Pimped which has 1,500 questions that are always asked to students (many questions in the book are way over the level that a ortho medical student should know). That book was money when it came time to prep for surgeries and fracture conferences. There is a General Surgery Pocket Pimped now that literally just came out. Get it!

Do you have specific questions about general surgery? I can ask a few of my buddies who matched general surgery this year.


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PMing you if that's cool

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

PMing you if that's cool

No problem. Replied.


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[Butters Stotch]

Congratulations on matching. If you didn’t match your first go around would you reapply the following match or choose another speciality (if another speciality what would it have been?).

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Congratulations on matching. If you didn’t match your first go around would you reapply the following match or choose another speciality (if another speciality what would it have been?).

My plan if I did not match was to SOAP into a transitional or surgery prelim. I would then reapply next year to orthopedics, anesthesia, and radiology. The problem with DO orthopedics is that the programs basically require you to audition. If you don't match first time around, and are in a prelim or transitional year, auditioning is not going to happen because you have obligations to your transitional/prelim program, so your chance at getting interviews for ortho is incredibly low. However, my plan was to still throw in the orthopedic apps second time around (because you have 0% chance of matching if you don't apply), but I would primarily be focused on radiology and/or anesthesia.

The other way to do it is to apply to orthopedics and a backup (dual apply). Many advised me to go all-in for orthopedics, which worked out for me. However, I got incredibly nervous around November/December and actually applied to transitonals, but by that time it was too late and got one invite because they had already sent out all their invites. If I could go back, I would apply to orthopedics and throw in 10 transitionals or prelims, just in case orthopedics did not work out. Basically, you do not want to SOAP. I knew a few people who had to SOAP this year and it seemed like absolute hell. I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

 

[OrthoGenesis]

Congratulation on your match!! Thank you for starting this forum.
How many ortho programs did you apply to? How did you perform on your clerkship? How were you able to get so many ortho research publications? Thanks!

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Congratulation on your match!! Thank you for starting this forum.
How many ortho programs did you apply to? How did you perform on your clerkship? How were you able to get so many ortho research publications? Thanks!

I applied to all of the AOA programs and approximately 60 ACGME programs.

The feedback I got on my clerkships was that I performed well. Make sure you know how to read an x-ray before you start auditions. Also, try and memorize the most common classifications and treatments.

I got most of my publications third and fourth year. On your third-year rotations, try to find interesting cases and write them up for case reports. These are easy to get and if you get them published, it's a pretty big deal and you will be asked about them.

 

[Gen3ricDO]

My plan if I did not match was to SOAP into a transitional or surgery prelim. I would then reapply next year to orthopedics, anesthesia, and radiology. The problem with DO orthopedics is that the programs basically require you to audition. If you don't match first time around, and are in a prelim or transitional year, auditioning is not going to happen because you have obligations to your transitional/prelim program, so your chance at getting interviews for ortho is incredibly low. However, my plan was to still throw in the orthopedic apps second time around (because you have 0% chance of matching if you don't apply), but I would primarily be focused on radiology and/or anesthesia.

The other way to do it is to apply to orthopedics and a backup (dual apply). Many advised me to go all-in for orthopedics, which worked out for me. However, I got incredibly nervous around November/December and actually applied to transitonals, but by that time it was too late and got one invite because they had already sent out all their invites. If I could go back, I would apply to orthopedics and throw in 10 transitionals or prelims, just in case orthopedics did not work out. Basically, you do not want to SOAP. I knew a few people who had to SOAP this year and it seemed like absolute hell. I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

Some TYs allow out rotations. Mine allowed one month. Me and another TY From the same program both matched ortho at our out rotation this year.

Also, we both had 5 interviews in ortho as reapplicants. I was only able to attend 4 due to overlap.

Absolutely agree with dual applying ortho and TY first try and then ortho+ another specialty on second try if it comes to that. I’m so glad I didn’t dual apply to a back up specialty my first time, but I hated the soap and got lucky with the TY. I know plenty of strong ortho candidates who ended up with nothing in the SOAP.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Some TYs allow out rotations. Mine allowed one month. Me and another TY From the same program both matched ortho at our out rotation this year.

Also, we both had 5 interviews in ortho as reapplicants. I was only able to attend 4 due to overlap.

Absolutely agree with dual applying ortho and TY first try and then ortho+ another specialty on second try if it comes to that. I’m so glad I didn’t dual apply to a back up specialty my first time, but I hated the soap and got lucky with the TY. I know plenty of strong ortho candidates who ended up with nothing in the SOAP.

Congrats on matching! That’s super good news! I guess the way I should have phrased it was if you do a TY, you don’t have the luxury of doing 5-6 auditions like you do the first time around, therefore you will end up with less interviews on average. That is awesome you got five though! So you did one audition basically and then got four at places just off your application?

And yeah, for the backups, I would rather apply to TYs as a backup to ortho so that I wouldn’t have to deal with the stress of the SOAP and going completely unmatched.

Another thing to think about and @Gen3ricDO would probably know this better, but if you don’t match the first time and were going to apply to anesthesia or radiology the second time with ortho, you would have to also get letters of rec for the other specialties as well so that you have a solid backup app so you don’t risk going unmatched again.

 

[Gen3ricDO]

Congrats on matching! That’s super good news! I guess the way I should have phrased it was if you do a TY, you don’t have the luxury of doing 5-6 auditions like you do the first time around, therefore you will end up with less interviews on average. That is awesome you got five though! So you did one audition basically and then got four at places just off your application?

And yeah, for the backups, I would rather apply to TYs as a backup to ortho so that I wouldn’t have to deal with the stress of the SOAP and going completely unmatched.

Another thing to think about and @Gen3ricDO would probably know this better, but if you don’t match the first time and were going to apply to anesthesia or radiology the second time with ortho, you would have to also get letters of rec for the other specialties as well so that you have a solid backup app so you don’t risk going unmatched again.

Yep, after the soap I used my remaining rotations as a 4th year and my early rotations in my TY to get the appropriate letters for my back up. My friend did the same.

My backups were vascular and general surgery. His was anesthesia.

Neither of us had a USMLE step 2 score since we applied DO ortho so we both took that during the summer between m4 and intern year.

 

[goneriding]

What is the best way to approach applying as a back up to transitional year programs when your application/CV clearly show that you are applying Ortho? I assume the transitional year PD's know that ortho does not require a stand alone internship year, so they would suspect that you are using them as a back up and would likely not interview you, or would rank you low.

I was planning on getting non-ortho letters, and writing a different personal statement. Do you recommend being honest in the personal statement (aka this is a back up), or trying to pretend that you decided to go into anesthesia/Rads/PMR at the last second (let's say you rotated in 1 those specialties and have a letter)? I realize you have to play the game to match, but I'm not sure how comfortable I am stretching the truth about my goals.

 

[DNC127]

What is the best way to approach applying as a back up to transitional year programs when your application/CV clearly show that you are applying Ortho? I assume the transitional year PD's know that ortho does not require a stand alone internship year, so they would suspect that you are using them as a back up and would likely not interview you, or would rank you low.

I was planning on getting non-ortho letters, and writing a different personal statement. Do you recommend being honest in the personal statement (aka this is a back up), or trying to pretend that you decided to go into anesthesia/Rads/PMR at the last second (let's say you rotated in 1 those specialties and have a letter)? I realize you have to play the game to match, but I'm not sure how comfortable I am stretching the truth about my goals.

play the game

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

What is the best way to approach applying as a back up to transitional year programs when your application/CV clearly show that you are applying Ortho? I assume the transitional year PD's know that ortho does not require a stand alone internship year, so they would suspect that you are using them as a back up and would likely not interview you, or would rank you low.

I was planning on getting non-ortho letters, and writing a different personal statement. Do you recommend being honest in the personal statement (aka this is a back up), or trying to pretend that you decided to go into anesthesia/Rads/PMR at the last second (let's say you rotated in 1 those specialties and have a letter)? I realize you have to play the game to match, but I'm not sure how comfortable I am stretching the truth about my goals.

This is something I asked multiple times to different people and never got a direct/best answer. The way I was going to do it was for transitional years I was going to basically say that I was going to be applying to ortho next year. I mean, you can't really spin that, haha. If you have great scores and are going to be a good resident, I don't see why they wouldn't still want you (I am not a PD though obviously).

For a real backup like anesthesia or rads, I would make a completely different application basically. New LORs, new PS, new you. You are now Mr. Anesthesia who found a love for it after you saw what they do on your ortho rotations. I know multiple ortho applicants who did this and were able to wing it (however, they ended up matching ortho).

 

[deleted1016251]

What do you think contributed to the drop in scores between your Step 1 and Step 2 CK?

I'm taking mine soon (late June thanks to COVID) and I had a similar Step 1 to you. Clearly you are a great student and good studier with a 250s Step 1 so I'm just curious if you have any advice on how to approach Step 2CK in such a way so as to avoid a drop in scores?

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

What do you think contributed to the drop in scores between your Step 1 and Step 2 CK?

I'm taking mine soon (late June thanks to COVID) and I had a similar Step 1 to you. Clearly you are a great student and good studier with a 250s Step 1 so I'm just curious if you have any advice on how to approach Step 2CK in such a way so as to avoid a drop in scores?

Being 100% honest, I have no idea what contributed to the drop. I studied exactly the same way for Step 2 which was doing a ton of questions and practice tests. My practice scores were in the high 250s and 260s for Step 2 and I even felt better about my Step 2 performance post-exam. I wouldn't worry about it too much as I feel that my situation is not the norm and usually you will score higher on Step 2. Keep your same study schedule as Step 1. You will be fine.

I think if I had scored in the 260s on Step 2 (around my practice scores), I would have received more MD interviews (I got 3). I think this is what hindered me from getting more since my app was otherwise pretty solid (other than the D.O. bias we all know and love). The AOA programs don't care about Step 2 from what it seemed. They care much more about Step 1, COMLEX1/2/PE. As long as you do well on COMLEX 2, a decrease in Step 2 shouldn't change things for AOA programs (which should be your main target in the ortho match).

 

[Schwifty]

All other things the same in your application, at what step/COMLEX score would you have not applied to Ortho, like you would have consider your score to be too low?

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

All other things the same in your application, at what step/COMLEX score would you have not applied to Ortho like you would have considered your score to be too low?

That is a really hard question to answer and I really don't think there is an answer that will be applicable to everyone. I know people who matched ortho with mid-550s COMLEX and sub-230 Step 1 with no research who were just "cool guys." I also know people who were 700+ and 250+ who did not match because they were "not so cool guys" to put it nicely. If you wanna be an orthopedic surgeon, I think you should apply regardless of what your scores are. If you don't apply, you WILL NOT be an ortho surgeon. Throw in the apps, pay the money (the app fees are a drop in the bucket in the long run), and apply ortho. If you get interviews, run with it.

I think the big choice is whether or not you are going to dual apply. If your scores are lower, you need to have a risk talk with yourself. Do you want to risk going unmatched? If not, I would dual apply. From my experience this year, it is so stressful around November/December when you have no idea where you do/do not have a spot at. If I was sitting at a 550 COMLEX with no research, etc, I would have felt MUCH more stressed. You need to personally weigh your personal situation and adjust accordingly. Some people I knew had "not so competitive apps" and only applied ortho. Some matched, some had to scramble. It just really depends on how much risk you want to take in your application and career processes.

 

[woolsocks90]

DO that matched ortho into a previous AOA program. Can't agree enough with what is being said on this thread and above. Don't let your scores dictate whether you apply for ortho or not. By far the most important part of your application is how you audition. The scores, research, etc.. are all fluff that may help separate you from an applicant that performed similarly to you or get you interviews at programs you didn't audition at. This is why auditions are so important for the previous AOA programs. Show up and get noticed without doing anything to draw attention to yourself. Essentially show up and be a gunner without acting like a gunner. Be prepared for any case you are scrubbing the next day, show that you are improving through the rotation, and try to make the lives of residents easier. If an ankle fracture comes in the ED and you're with the PGY2 but he/she is busy seeing something else, get the splint measured out and ready. If he's already reduced a ton of them he'll see you took initiative and give you the go to reduce and splint it. There will be times you're doing as much as you can (without being annoying) and you won't get any praise which can be defeating at times because of how long and hard ortho auditions can be, but don't stop doing it. This stuff happened on every rotation I did and then got brought up at the end of my rotation or interviews. Everything is noticed and appreciated, but not always vocalized.

For the record my stats were:
Step 1 250+, Step 2 260
Level 1 800, Level 2 870+

None of the residents or attendings new my scores during my rotations (unless they asked). I wanted them to want me to go there because of my work ethic and proving that I fit in with the program. Having the scores was a nice thing to pull out on interviews and get me interviews at places I didn't rotate at. I applied to 30 programs and got 15 interviews. Ended up going on 5.

I think anyone can match ortho if you put in the work and show that you deserve it. It's a competitive specialty and shouldn't be handed to anyone just because of scores and that's the mentality I had. You won't sleep much at all, but 5-6 months of no sleep and always trying to be on your A-game is worth doing what you want to do for the rest of your life. If you don't have that mentality someone else out there does and will take the spot from you.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

DO that matched ortho into a previous AOA program. Can't agree enough with what is being said on this thread and above. Don't let your scores dictate whether you apply for ortho or not. By far the most important part of your application is how you audition. The scores, research, etc.. are all fluff that may help separate you from an applicant that performed similarly to you or get you interviews at programs you didn't audition at. This is why auditions are so important for the previous AOA programs. Show up and get noticed without doing anything to draw attention to yourself. Essentially show up and be a gunner without acting like a gunner. Be prepared for any case you are scrubbing the next day, show that you are improving through the rotation, and try to make the lives of residents easier. If an ankle fracture comes in the ED and you're with the PGY2 but he/she is busy seeing something else, get the splint measured out and ready. If he's already reduced a ton of them he'll see you took initiative and give you the go to reduce and splint it. There will be times you're doing as much as you can (without being annoying) and you won't get any praise which can be defeating at times because of how long and hard ortho auditions can be, but don't stop doing it. This stuff happened on every rotation I did and then got brought up at the end of my rotation or interviews. Everything is noticed and appreciated, but not always vocalized.

For the record my stats were:
Step 1 250+, Step 2 260
Level 1 800, Level 2 870+

None of the residents or attendings new my scores during my rotations (unless they asked). I wanted them to want me to go there because of my work ethic and proving that I fit in with the program. Having the scores was a nice thing to pull out on interviews and get me interviews at places I didn't rotate at. I applied to 30 programs and got 15 interviews. Ended up going on 5.

I think anyone can match ortho if you put in the work and show that you deserve it. It's a competitive specialty and shouldn't be handed to anyone just because of scores and that's the mentality I had. You won't sleep much at all, but 5-6 months of no sleep and always trying to be on your A-game is worth doing what you want to do for the rest of your life. If you don't have that mentality someone else out there does and will take the spot from you.

A+ post.

 

[Schwifty]

DO that matched ortho into a previous AOA program. Can't agree enough with what is being said on this thread and above. Don't let your scores dictate whether you apply for ortho or not. By far the most important part of your application is how you audition. The scores, research, etc.. are all fluff that may help separate you from an applicant that performed similarly to you or get you interviews at programs you didn't audition at. This is why auditions are so important for the previous AOA programs. Show up and get noticed without doing anything to draw attention to yourself. Essentially show up and be a gunner without acting like a gunner. Be prepared for any case you are scrubbing the next day, show that you are improving through the rotation, and try to make the lives of residents easier. If an ankle fracture comes in the ED and you're with the PGY2 but he/she is busy seeing something else, get the splint measured out and ready. If he's already reduced a ton of them he'll see you took initiative and give you the go to reduce and splint it. There will be times you're doing as much as you can (without being annoying) and you won't get any praise which can be defeating at times because of how long and hard ortho auditions can be, but don't stop doing it. This stuff happened on every rotation I did and then got brought up at the end of my rotation or interviews. Everything is noticed and appreciated, but not always vocalized.

For the record my stats were:
Step 1 250+, Step 2 260
Level 1 800, Level 2 870+

None of the residents or attendings new my scores during my rotations (unless they asked). I wanted them to want me to go there because of my work ethic and proving that I fit in with the program. Having the scores was a nice thing to pull out on interviews and get me interviews at places I didn't rotate at. I applied to 30 programs and got 15 interviews. Ended up going on 5.

I think anyone can match ortho if you put in the work and show that you deserve it. It's a competitive specialty and shouldn't be handed to anyone just because of scores and that's the mentality I had. You won't sleep much at all, but 5-6 months of no sleep and always trying to be on your A-game is worth doing what you want to do for the rest of your life. If you don't have that mentality someone else out there does and will take the spot from you.

Why did you choose to not go on 10 of your 15 interviews?

 

[DNC127]

Why did you choose to not go on 10 of your 15 interviews?

Good applicants that are a good fit for programs many time get told their rank. If you are RTM at a place where you want to go, and that place has a reputation of being honest about post interview feedback, you can at that time pump the brakes (if you feel inclined / trust the information given to you)

 

[FindersFee5]

Good applicants that are a good fit for programs many time get told their rank. If you are RTM at a place where you want to go, and that place has a reputation of being honest about post interview feedback, you can at that time pump the brakes (if you feel inclined / trust the information given to you)

Man, after putting in that much work for the last 4 years, there is NO WAY I would be turning down interviews - especially 10! That's a really ballsy move.

 

[DNC127]

Man, after putting in that much work for the last 4 years, there is NO WAY I would be turning down interviews - especially 10! That's a really ballsy move.

I agree. Most didn’t, but there are a couple programs where the PD consistently calls every year to tell people where they are at Right after the interview and you can completely trust it. Each interview costs about 500-1000$ for flights and hotel and such so if you KNEW you were going to match somewhere it makes sense financially to stop.

With that being said, I still went on all my interviews lol, but I can see why one wouldn’t I guess.

 

[woolsocks90]

Man, after putting in that much work for the last 4 years, there is NO WAY I would be turning down interviews - especially 10! That's a really ballsy move.

I was confident in my performance on my auditions, my application, and where I wanted to go. My first two interviews were at my #2 and #3 and later that day had calls from the residents regarding where I stood, so I knew worst case scenario I would end up at my #2. After I had similar feedback from my #1 I canceled the rest of my interviews.

Some may think it's ballsy but I knew where I wanted to go and quite frankly didn't want to waste money traveling to interviews at other programs when I knew where I wanted to go. As DNC said above travel for interviews is expensive and I didn't have another 10k to spend on interviews. I am by no means saying to do the same, but I don't believe the NRMP match data of 10-12+ interviews for 95% (or whatever it is this year) chance of matching ortho applies to DO programs. It's more for allopathic applicants that are applying to 50-80 programs and maybe did 3 rotations. Many former AOA programs have a reputation of only interviewing students who have rotated so you have a 20-25% chance of matching just by getting an interview at some programs.

 

[Schwifty]

Not sure if it was asked already, but how much did it cost to apply, including applications, travel, food, etc. (also these costs for auditions)?

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Not sure if it was asked already, but how much did it cost to apply, including applications, travel, food, etc. (also these costs for auditions)?

My bill for 91 orthopedic surgery programs was $2,185. I then added 23 transitional programs in late November because I got nervous which was $318. It ended up being a waste of money because by late November the programs have already sent out all their invites. Out of the 23 transitional programs I applied to in late November I only got 2 interview invites (which I canceled).

Each interview ran about $400-$500 when factoring in housing, transportation, flights, and food. The way I tried to save money was by staying with the person that I lived with during my month-long auditions. During my auditions, they told me if I interviewed at the program that I could come back and stay at their place for the interview for free (which saved me money on a hotel). If possible, try and clump your interviews together so that you can knock out multiple at one time. This rarely works because the program says, "you are coming on this day!" but sometimes you get to pick between two days. For example, I knocked out three interviews on a weekend that were all within 30 minutes of each other saving me close to $2000 probably.

Auditions are expensive as well. I drove to all my auditions so I didn't have to rent a car, but I did fly back home at least one time per month to see family (at least six flights). I stayed with an ortho resident on two auditions (highly recommend because you may get some insider info), ED resident on another, family on two, and then a random lady the hospital had on their "places you may stay" list for my last one, haha. All the places I stayed at charged $500 for the month and quality ranged from a whole house to a couch basically.

This is an EXPENSIVE six months, guys. However, it is worth it. You need to spend the money and go on as many as you can to give yourself the best chance at matching. In the long run, the money you spend here is a drop in the bucket.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

If anyone is still trying to figure out where to audition this upcoming cycle, I have updated the orthopedic auditions review page and made it much easier to use. Click here to be linked to the thread and please make sure to leave a review on the page once you have completed your audition!

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Hey everyone. I just wanted to let you know I added FIVE new orthopedic audition reviews on the ortho forum. All five are Michigan programs. Click here to see them.

Added:

Beaumont- Farmington Hills/Dearborn
Henry Ford Macomb
McLaren Macomb
MacLaren Oakland
McLaren- Greater Lansing

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Just wanted to ask any DO students doing auditions at previously-AOA programs to please send me, or post here, your review of the programs so we can continue to compile a helpful list of program reviews. Thank you!

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

With July 1 coming up quick....if any ortho auditioners have any questions shoot me a PM!

 

[DNC127]

With July 1 coming up quick....if any ortho auditioners have any questions shoot me a PM!

same!

 

[CastBentLegs]

Just wanted to ask any DO students doing auditions at previously-AOA programs to please send me, or post here, your review of the programs so we can continue to compile a helpful list of program reviews. Thank you!

Those that matched to previously AOA programs please add your reviews

Osteopathic Orthopaedic Surgery Residency Reviews *Post Merger Version*

P.S. PLEASE DO NOT POST REPLIES ON THIS THREAD THAT ARE NOT REVIEWS. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION REGARDING THE AVAILABILITY OF A PROGRAM REVIEW, PLEASE DM ME AND I CAN TRY AND FIND ONE FOR YOU. THE THREAD SHOULD BE A CATALOG OF REVIEWS ONLY. PLEASE DO NOT HAVE CONVERSATIONS ON THIS THREAD AS IT IS...

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