CRIP Review 2024

[diabeticfootdr]

Just leaving CRIP in Dallas and I wanted to first say how impressed I was with the quality of students interviewing.

Most students were well-prepared to answer academic questions and work-up a case presentation. This is truly a testament to their education and training in podiatry school. Also, I'm happy to see many students who identify limb salvage as a field of interest.

The opportunity most students have for improvement is on their interview style. Here are some pointers while they are fresh:

1. Have a 1-2 minute opening statement well-prepared and memorized on why you should be chosen for the particular program. But here is the key, don't make it seem rehearsed, you need to say it with passion, conversationally.
2. If you have any negative marks in your application (i.e. lower GPA, didn't pass APMLE Part 1 on the first try), address them up front. Don't wait to be asked about them because faculty already know and have discussed them. If you don't address it and they don't ask, you'll never have your perspective heard. For example: I know my GPA might be a little lower than some of my classmates, but I've been involved in [club leadership/APMSA, etc.] and found those activities valuable and well-worth my time away from my studies. They've really helped me to grow as a clinician and a leader.
3. Adapt your answers to who is interviewing you. If you rotated at the program, you know who the main attendings are. You can even ask the residents who you're friends with who is going to CRIP. Then make sure you know the articles written by the interviewers, not because you need to quote their own articles, but if you quote articles that they're already quoting in their publications, you will seem very impressive!
4. Somehow indicate that you are someone who is teachable, a team player, and won't cause any problems for the program.
5. Don't mentioned anything about your family, your marital status, if you plan on having kids, your sexual orientation, or any other personal items. You shouldn't be asked about any of these.
6. Exception to Rule #5. If you have family in the area of the program and that is one of the reasons you want the program because you'll have a good support network, you should. If you have a family member (podiatry or other medical field) who is an alum of the program or practices in the area, you should.
7. Shake everyone's hand (or fist bump) when you first enter, start with the person that greets you at the door and go in line if there are multiple interviewers. Use a firm grip and look the person in the eyes. If your palm is sweaty, wipe it on your clothes first.
8. It's ok to make an appropriate joke in the moment, people like people that are likable and fun to be around.
9. Show some energy. Yes, you may be nervous, but you need to speak clearly, loud enough, and with some passion. If you are too meek in your responses, faculty might think you can't hold your own when interacting with other services.
10. Don't disparage anyone. Not other students, staff, faculty, other programs, or especially make disparaging comments about any patients you've seen. Last year I threw someone out of an interview for this.
11. Never ask any questions to interviewers about how much time off you'll have or about "work-life balance". You should already know this about the program. Ask residents while you're rotating.
12. If you don't know the answer to an academic question, it's ok. Just say something like, "Wow! That's great information and shows why I need to be at your program, so I can learn this stuff!" Obviously you can't do that too many times.
13. Ask who can you keep in touch with about the process. Sometimes a resident will keep you informed on how you did and may even hint at where you'll be ranked if they overheard conversations.
14. Dress to impress, but also wear something different to stand out. A candidate once wore a UT tie to an interview and everyone commented on it and we remembered it.
15. Have good posture, use body language, and seem confident. You'll communicate a lot that way. It's exactly how you'd want a doctor to behave.
16. Have future goals. If you are asked what you want to do when you finish residency, don't say something like you don't know yet or you're open. No one likes that. Instead, dream big and convey those big dreams like, "I really want to lead a hospital service, or teach residents and students, or become involved in my state and national leadership and help improve the profession."

You're welcome.

Anyone else, feel free to add your pointers.

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[Shiyuan]

Just leaving CRIP in Dallas and I wanted to first say how impressed I was with the quality of students interviewing.

Most students were well-prepared to answer academic questions and work-up a case presentation. This is truly a testament to their education and training in podiatry school. Also, I'm happy to see many students who identify limb salvage as a field of interest.

The opportunity most students have for improvement is on their interview style. Here are some pointers while they are fresh:

1. Have a 1-2 minute opening statement well-prepared and memorized on why you should be chosen for the particular program. But here is the key, don't make it seem rehearsed, you need to say it with passion, conversationally.
2. If you have any negative marks in your application (i.e. lower GPA, didn't pass APMLE Part 1 on the first try), address them up front. Don't wait to be asked about them because faculty already know and have discussed them. If you don't address it and they don't ask, you'll never have your perspective heard. For example: I know my GPA might be a little lower than some of my classmates, but I've been involved in [club leadership/APMSA, etc.] and found those activities valuable and well-worth my time away from my studies. They've really helped me to grow as a clinician and a leader.
3. Adapt your answers to who is interviewing you. If you rotated at the program, you know who the main attendings are. You can even ask the residents who you're friends with who is going to CRIP. Then make sure you know the articles written by the interviewers, not because you need to quote their own articles, but if you quote articles that they're already quoting in their publications, you will seem very impressive!
4. Somehow indicate that you are someone who is teachable, a team player, and won't cause any problems for the program.
5. Don't mentioned anything about your family, your marital status, if you plan on having kids, your sexual orientation, or any other personal items. You shouldn't be asked about any of these.
6. Exception to Rule #5. If you have family in the area of the program and that is one of the reasons you want the program because you'll have a good support network, you should. If you have a family member (podiatry or other medical field) who is an alum of the program or practices in the area, you should.
7. Shake everyone's hand (or fist bump) when you first enter, start with the person that greets you at the door and go in line if there are multiple interviewers. Use a firm grip and look the person in the eyes. If your palm is sweaty, wipe it on your clothes first.
8. It's ok to make an appropriate joke in the moment, people like people that are likable and fun to be around.
9. Show some energy. Yes, you may be nervous, but you need to speak clearly, loud enough, and with some passion. If you are too meek in your responses, faculty might think you can't hold your own when interacting with other services.
10. Don't disparage anyone. Not other students, staff, faculty, other programs, or especially make disparaging comments about any patients you've seen. Last year I threw someone out of an interview for this.
11. Never ask any questions to interviewers about how much time off you'll have or about "work-life balance". You should already know this about the program. Ask residents while you're rotating.
12. If you don't know the answer to an academic question, it's ok. Just say something like, "Wow! That's great information and shows why I need to be at your program, so I can learn this stuff!" Obviously you can't do that too many times.
13. Ask who can you keep in touch with about the process. Sometimes a resident will keep you informed on how you did and may even hint at where you'll be ranked if they overheard conversations.
14. Dress to impress, but also wear something different to stand out. A candidate once wore a UT tie to an interview and everyone commented on it and we remembered it.
15. Have good posture, use body language, and seem confident. You'll communicate a lot that way. It's exactly how you'd want a doctor to behave.
16. Have future goals. If you are asked what you want to do when you finish residency, don't say something like you don't know yet or you're open. No one likes that. Instead, dream big and convey those big dreams like, "I really want to lead a hospital service, or teach residents and students, or become involved in my state and national leadership and help improve the profession."

You're welcome.

Anyone else, feel free to add your pointers.

Fantastic advice.

Many forget this is a JOB interview. Need to be professional. Don’t go and get wasted at the hotel’s bar 3 hours after your interview with friends… people are watching!

Do have a couple clean jokes ready too 😃

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Great advice. Thank you, Dr. Rogers!

 

[air bud]

Heard this joke from crips - How do you hide a 100 dollar bill from a surgeon? tape it to their kid

not sure that applies to podiatrists....but still funny.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

Take ownership of your own education. Your school education isn’t enough to coast through fourth year. You need to be actively reading, learning and practicing hand skills. Especially as a resident. Be a lifelong learner. At a top program and it was actually pretty surprising how many people didnt improve on their knowledge base since their clerkship. Made ranking very easy.

Don't tell more than one program you're ranking them #1. we all talk. We all know. You won't match at those programs.

Echo don't talk bad. makes you look bad even if it's true.

 

[JustAPedicurist]

Decent advice for the most part but some attendings wouldn’t appreciate a fist bump, a joke (well timed or not), or the corny “this is why I should be at your program!” When you don’t know the answer.

The interview process overall is an extremely stressful time as a student. Glad I’m on the other side….

 

[Robin-jay]

10. Don't disparage anyone. Not other students, staff, faculty, other programs, or especially make disparaging comments about any patients you've seen. Last year I threw someone out of an interview for this.

Must have been extremely disparaging to throw a potential candidate out for saying something negative about someone.

 

[Weirdy]

Must have been extremely disparaging to throw a potential candidate out for saying something negative about someone.

Common sense isn't common.

 

[Robin-jay]

I didn't participate in any of these, but I have heard some Texas interviews basically pair students against each other?

From a purely ethical standpoint, I think this is actually unethical. I certainly would have considered avoiding applying to any programs that did that. That's just absurd.

 

[heybrother]

I didn't participate in any of these, but I have heard some Texas interviews basically pair students against each other?

From a purely ethical standpoint, I think this is actually unethical. I certainly would have considered avoiding applying to any programs that did that. That's just absurd.

West Houston did this forever ago. They'd ask for post-op orders on a surgery with exact dosing and expect you to add things person after person until you ran out of orders. You had to give exact dosing on medications etc. Day 2 they did a head to head on a non-podiatry topic. I hilariously got to argue against the space program even though I'm from Houston and went to Johnson Space Center a million times as a kid. I gave an impassioned speech against government over reach and the benefits of capitalism and ultimately was not selected by West Houston (though I don't think that was the reason). I would have preferred to argue the other side, but I ended up in the wrong damn chair.

 

[Robin-jay]

West Houston did this forever ago. They'd ask for post-op orders on a surgery with exact dosing and expect you to add things person after person until you ran out of orders. You had to give exact dosing on medications etc. Day 2 they did a head to head on a non-podiatry topic. I hilariously got to argue against the space program even though I'm from Houston and went to Johnson Space Center a million times as a kid. I gave an impassioned speech against government over reach and the benefits of capitalism and ultimately was not selected by West Houston (though I don't think that was the reason). I would have preferred to argue the other side, but I ended up in the wrong damn chair.

I can understand how that's comical from the interviewers perspective and can be some fun for the interviewees in some form for sure. But I still think that sounds silly and kind of like the interviewers are just having fun making interviewees jump for no reason other than to entertain themselves.

Personally, if I was borderline on an interview for a position and this was the interview, I probably would consider this simply too stupid, for a lack of better words, to participate in.

 

[wakaflocka88]

I can understand how that's comical from the interviewers perspective and can be some fun for the interviewees in some form for sure. But I still think that sounds silly and kind of like the interviewers are just having fun making interviewees jump for no reason other than to entertain themselves.

Personally, if I was borderline on an interview for a position and this was the interview, I probably would consider this simply too stupid, for a lack of better words, to participate in.

That’s how dumb podiatry is.

 

[air bud]

I can understand how that's comical from the interviewers perspective and can be some fun for the interviewees in some form for sure. But I still think that sounds silly and kind of like the interviewers are just having fun making interviewees jump for no reason other than to entertain themselves.

Personally, if I was borderline on an interview for a position and this was the interview, I probably would consider this simply too stupid, for a lack of better words, to participate in.

Its not meant to be comical, and the underlying premise to this had some merit. At least based on the original concept of this and when run by Mendo (RIP)...but who knows what it is like these days.

 

[Feli]

You guys all have to remember that times have changed FAST in podiatry (and how "foot and ankle surgeon" got so saturated so quickly).

• 30 years ago, not everyone got a residency... and small minority got a 'surgical' program. Even smaller % got a good one (few were 3yrs).
• 20 years ago, we had 3yr programs and 2yr ones... and most 3yr and nearly all 2yr were still pretty much junk, though.
• 10 years ago, all programs were 3yrs, but many still sucked (esp RRA), and there was another residency shortage with Western+Midwestern opening.

People who were average students years ago, such as the OP, were matching or scrambling to average or crummy residency programs even in years with a surplus of residency spots. Some good surgical programs would razz them or embarrass them with what they didn't know. It didn't matter what corny neck tie they wore... they were just not in serious contention for good programs. Most of those middle students would be going low quality residencies with toes and wound surgery and a whole lotta chiropody. Many DPMs cobbled together PPMR year + POR/PSR year(s) + unregulated "fellowship" year (yup, so much stays the same, huh?) or some wonky backdoor way to get surgical cases and knowledge or job connects. You see those types of CVs all the time if you do hospital cred work; some hospitals will accept them, some won't.

Good surgical programs wouldn't even look at middle rank students in those days 20+ years ago. The top surgical programs were kings if they were 3yrs and/or had real elective/trauma RRA work to teach. They had to weed out the 100+ applications and dozens of interviews somehow. They would need to compare them. Some would do the group interviews or pimp students much more on clerk months than they do now. Students were lucky to even get the clerkships or interviews, and they'd have to be high class rank and real good at the interview to get it. The CRIP advantage was totally in the programs' favor for a looong time.

...Present day, yeah... you can laugh at any program that's overly stern or serious.
You can rule out programs that try the hazing or deprecation. You will have other options.
There still aren't a ton of good residencies and spots for RRA and high volume, but there's a lot more than years past.
This is all relatively new stuff. Times have changed (although anyone who thinks 3yr residency = 3yr residency in podiatry is a nut).
The CRIP advantage is mainly in the podiatry students' favor now (until UTRGV cause another residency shortage/crunch).
One would be a total toolbox to wear a goofy logo tie to try for a mediocre program.

Still, just because CRIP stuff doesn't happen much now doesn't mean that it didn't ever happen... or that it was necessarily inappropriate in its day.

Its not meant to be comical, and the underlying premise to this had some merit. At least based on the original concept of this and when run by Mendo (RIP)...but who knows what it is like these days.

Yeah, totally unfair to compare interviews 10 or 20 or 30 years ago to formats now.
It was a different time. Resident duty hours weren't enforced. Med Ed for all DPM/MD/DO specialties was just far different.
We can't judge what the PI program or good Texas GTEF programs or Kern or the program I did or whatever did decades ago.

It's like how you can't "me too" some 80 year old guy for what he may have said when he was age 25 in the 1970s. Different times, different methods.

 

[Feli]

Decent advice for the most part but some attendings wouldn’t appreciate a fist bump, a joke (well timed or not), or the corny “this is why I should be at your program!” When you don’t know the answer.

The interview process overall is an extremely stressful time as a student. Glad I’m on the other side….

^^For sure. Interviews are a fairly serious time. No doubt.

No student at CRIP will ever go wrong with mature demeanor and classic business dress (think news anchors on TV or politicians for debates). It's good to do the friendly yet humble approach for any residency or job or hospital or whatever interview. If you're a good student at CRIP, most of the speaking has already been done. The clerkship or visit was the time to joke around a bit and show your charisma (with the residents moreso than attendings). The CRIP interview is more of a formality; the smart approach is to be as mature and courteous as possible.

Maybe the mid/low rank students taking longshots for good residency programs can try the buddy-buddy approach or the jokes (and basically just hope the program is under-applied to for the year's CASPR cycle). A very good student who is clearly one of the best applications for an average program they're using as backup could also goof around, but being Jerry Seinfeld Jr is far more likely to hurt than help for most students. Most people match "backup" programs by the end of it all. Most people at CRIP - attendings and students - just aren't very in the mood for jokes or small talk when travelling and trying to do a bunch of professional interviews in a day or two.

It is a bit different if you did the clerkship and rocked it and you're high class rank. Still, it's wise to play it professional.
You never know what kinds of other students are wanting the program. Maybe it's some valedictorian's hometown, another candidate is the kid of an attending at the residency, perhaps some smokeshow also clerked well... whatever. There are many years when a good program with 3 or 4 match spots really only has two or one or even zero of those up for decision by the weekend of CRIP. You just do not know.

...For students, this stuff is no joke. Residency match is a big result for any doc... HUGE in podiatry (since our programs have highly variable quality). Pick your clerkships wisely and interviews strategy wisely. Plenty of ppl have advice. Everyone has an opinion. Take your advice from people (upperclassmen, resident, attendings, SDN searches, etc) who did well in school, clerked good programs, interviewed those, matched those. These are skills that'll serve you after residency also.

 

[Feli]

Heard this joke from crips - How do you hide a 100 dollar bill from a surgeon? tape it to their kid

not sure that applies to podiatrists....but still funny.

How do you hide a 100 dollar bill from an internist?
Put it under the bandage.

How do you hide a 100 dollar bill from a surgeon?
Put it in a journal.

How do you hide a 100 dollar bill from a plastic surgeon?
You can't.

 

[Forcewielder]

How do you hide a 100 dollar bill from an internist?
Put it under the bandage.

How do you hide a 100 dollar bill from a surgeon?
Put it in a journal.

How do you hide a 100 dollar bill from a plastic surgeon?
You can't.

Haha beat me to it. I'd heard these as well.

Three residents were standing on an elevator when the doors began to close and someone stopped the doors from closing by shoving their clipboard between the doors. They got on and chuckled saying, "Never use anything to stop the doors that you'd hate to lose." The residents all nodded. Later the elevator doors were closing when someone yelled to hold it for them. The medical resident shoved their hand in to stop the doors. Same thing happens later and this time the surgery resident uses their foot. The ortho resident was the last on the elevator and when someone yelled to hold the elevator, he used his head to stop the doors.

 

[Robin-jay]

Feel like a big man?

I personally wouldn't kick anyone who of an interview for talking bad about a resident, patient, etc, or really any reason TBH, unless its extreme.

An applicant is spending their time and money to interview, and if the interviewee has accepted the interview, I feel as though both parties should have the utmost mutual respect.

If the applicant said some program director was a jerk, I wouldn't think highly of it, but I also wouldn't end the interview.

If the applicant said "that director is an effing jerk POS", then the justification definitely exists.

 

[ReaganomicsLamborghini]

I personally wouldn't kick anyone who of an interview for talking bad about a resident, patient, etc, or really any reason TBH, unless its extreme.

An applicant is spending their time and money to interview, and if the interviewee has accepted the interview, I feel as though both parties should have the utmost mutual respect.

If the applicant said some program director was a jerk, I wouldn't think highly of it, but I also wouldn't end the interview.

If the applicant said "that director is an effing jerk POS", then the justification definitely exists.

These podiatry egos are out of control.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

I think given how poor most students in this class were in terms of knowledge base and work ethic we will most likely see programs only offering students who actually do well instead of a courtesy interview.

 

[Weirdy]

Keep it clean. No ad hominem.

 

[Feli]

I think given how poor most students in this class were in terms of knowledge base and work ethic we will most likely see programs only offering students who actually do well instead of a courtesy interview.

Yep. We will see this from now on, man.

There was a decline in podiatry admissions, and they followed through with two new schools anyways. Any applicant to podiatry will get in somewhere with 11 schools (it wasn't incredibly hard with 7 schools 20 years ago or 5 schools 50 years ago). Podiatry has basically always been at 80+ or 90+ percent accept rate, but now it is too many schools way too fast. It'll now be virtually 100% accepted with the new podiatry schools. Schools that under-fill will also have pressure to push students through to keep the tuition, even if they're unlikely to pass APMLE or do well in clerkships and residency.

...The good podiatry residency programs will have to adjust to the very lax admissions and likely hesitance of most pod schools to fail anyone out. That second part will be newer. This happened in the early 2000s also... some good programs would just leave resident spots unfilled if the apps and interviews they did were unimpressive and they didn't like what they saw in scramble. Other programs will add $pot$ and/or take whoever they can get, and those residencies go to pot.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

Yep. We will see this from now on, man.

There was a decline in podiatry admissions, and they followed through with two new schools anyways. Any applicant to podiatry will get in somewhere with 11 schools (it wasn't incredibly hard with 7 schools 20 years ago or 5 schools 50 years ago). Podiatry has basically always been at 80+ or 90+ percent accept rate, but now it is too many schools way too fast. It'll now be virtually 100% accepted with the new podiatry schools. Schools that under-fill will also have pressure to push students through to keep the tuition, even if they're unlikely to pass APMLE or do well in clerkships and residency.

...The good podiatry residency programs will have to adjust to the very lax admissions and likely hesitance of most pod schools to fail anyone out. That second part will be newer. This happened in the early 2000s also... some good programs would just leave resident spots unfilled if the apps and interviews they did were unimpressive and they didn't like what they saw in scramble. Other programs will add $pot$ and/or take whoever they can get, and those residencies go to pot.

very sad, very frustrating. But its all about self interests and hopefully the scale tips the other way one day before podiatry becomes too saturated.

oh wait. already there. lol. I'll open up another school to supplement my income.

maybe my residency will get rid of a resident spot and open up a faculty job for me.

 

[Forcewielder]

It's so frustrating. I feel we were starting to overcome the TFP stigma and now the newest generation are going to have a higher percentage of people that never should have been accepted, much less got a residency. That's always been part of the problem of residency as well. Incompetent residents often still make it through because no program wants to deal with being down a body. It's only going to get that much worse now.

 

[Feli]

It's so frustrating. I feel we were starting to overcome the TFP stigma and now the newest generation are going to have a higher percentage of people that never should have been accepted, much less got a residency. That's always been part of the problem of residency as well. Incompetent residents often still make it through because no program wants to deal with being down a body. It's only going to get that much worse now.

Yep.... and just wait until your hospital(s) admins are asking you to "proctor" other podiatrists or "review" cases that have had questionable results and have drawn complaints from other docs or the OR staff (uber long OR times, bad infections, missed dx or tx of infections, CRPS, amps from elective stuff, many revisions, basically cripple a hospital employee, tons of expensive nonsense OR products, etc).

Super absolutely not fun.
It's a terrible look for all of us.
It certainly happens in other specialties also, but podiatry's highly variable training and board standard does NOT help us.

(fwiw, I always just decline saying too busy or conflict of interests and decline to do it. I think they get the idea... as I quietly just do HWR and PT and pain mgmt refer for the poor patients)

 

[podourology]

I like how you guys are acting, like you didn't have to drool your name on the MCAT to get into podiatry school when you applied. Podiatry has always been easy to get into, calm the superiority complexes. I forgot you guys went to podiatry school when people were picking NYCPM, Scholl and DMU over Stanford medicine. Back when our directors went to school you could have filled out an application in crayon and spelled your name wrong and still get in.

It's so frustrating. I feel we were starting to overcome the TFP stigma and now the newest generation are going to have a higher percentage of people that never should have been accepted, much less got a residency. That's always been part of the problem of residency as well. Incompetent residents often still make it through because no program wants to deal with being down a body. It's only going to get that much worse now.

 

[Feli]

I like how you guys are acting, like you didn't have to drool your name on the MCAT to get into podiatry school when you applied. Podiatry has always been easy to get into, calm the superiority complexes. I forgot you guys went to podiatry school when people were picking NYCPM, Scholl and DMU over Stanford medicine. Back when our directors went to school you could have filled out an application in crayon and spelled your name wrong and still get in.

There have always been high and low quality DPMs out there.
The residency training has always been highly variable.
The schools have always been easy to get into. Nobody is bragging that getting in was tough.

The difference now is that you have almost twice as many pod school seats (11 schools) as 25 or 30 years ago (7 schools). There are new schools, and existing ones always look to expand also. LECOM is the biggest DO school in the country; they sure aren't going to settle on having 30/yr for podiatry, agree? The saving grace for DPMs is that the new schools mean the old pod schools don't tend to fill seats (new ones mostly don't either). However, that constant underfill also means even more lax podiatry admissions and schools will also be less likely than ever to fail students (since they can't fill $eat$ to begin with). That's a problem for all of us. It's not superiority; it's math.

It's hard to explain, but we are judged by our lowest common denominator. I think you will really see that when you're out in practice. You will get to explain to MDs again and again and again why some podiatrists do ankle fusions when others barely do basic wound care and others only go to nursing homes. You will see some very wild stuff in terms of hospital and overall outcomes. Your chief of surgery might ask why some can take call and others can't. They generally don't understand our boards or training. Worst, you get to explain to patients why their awesome McBride + 2-5th arthroplasties turned into crazy looking toes and pain before age 50... or why their MRI osteomyelitis wound didn't heal with 14 HBO sessions and 6 amnio cell grafts.

...Podiatry made some strides with everyone gets a residency, but the huge increases in schools/students/grads will negate that. We've had multiple residency shortages since going to the "everyone gets 3 year residency" model, and we are likely on the verge of another shortage (it'll come down to attrition rates at schools for classes of 2027 and beyond). Even if some residency spots are whipped up or existing residencies are watered down with more spots or the pod schools flunk some lagging students, we all know the variance in podiatry "PMSR/RRA" residencies (surg volume, hospital quality, attendings, etc) and the what the logical gaps in board pass rates for our surgery boards despite "surgical residency" are.

 

[podourology]

I agree. However, I have seen good ED residents and Terrible ED residents. Same thing for any specialty or line of work.

Maybe you should host an online surgery workshop for tips and trips, for free or for fee. Give back to younger pods in the area. Speak to your reps and try to get a workshop so you can show them, what you found is good etc. none of us are equal, but if we work like AOFAS and actually hold hundreds of workshops like them, we can reduce that. Unfortunately everything is about the money for pods.

Report podiatrists doing mismanagement of care to the state. I did that as a resident. External Hospital was treating SCC with HBO, 14 mo wound with obvious cauliflower sign…

 

[Forcewielder]

I like how you guys are acting, like you didn't have to drool your name on the MCAT to get into podiatry school when you applied. Podiatry has always been easy to get into, calm the superiority complexes. I forgot you guys went to podiatry school when people were picking NYCPM, Scholl and DMU over Stanford medicine. Back when our directors went to school you could have filled out an application in crayon and spelled your name wrong and still get in.

Speak for yourself. I did have the MCAT and resumé to go allopathic but I genuinely enjoyed podiatry.

As Feli explained so well though, there's just such a vast range in podiatry training and abilities. I've had general surgeons genuinely shocked I do surgery, thinking we all just chip and clip. Some of it has to do with where you practice. Where I am, podiatry isn't even a commonly known specialty. People often mistake it with pediatrics or have no idea what I'm saying.

Our professional leadership is just so wayward. We should focus our efforts on improving the existing residencies and schools, not just flood the supply.

And hosting a workshop is so inadequate. I've seen students and residents that had no business being a surgeon. They would be a liability to just chip and clip all day.

 

[Feli]

... if we work like AOFAS and actually hold hundreds of workshops like them, we can reduce that. Unfortunately everything is about the money for pods. ...

Yes, above with @Forcewielder is correct.
I would've replied sooner, but I have OP on ignore, so this thread doesn't always show up for me.

...The sad thing you'll realize is that working harder and having better skill can't overcome saturation. It's supply and demand.

We are very often judged by our lowest common denominator.
Every time podiatry could improve, they add $chool$ and residency spots (or residency shortage).
Our training variance is huge, and there are far too many of us.
DPM = DPM = DPM for most MDs and hospitals and the public. Well, they are understandably confused.
It takes much finesse, doing good work, and personal relationships just to remedy this locally. I do it fairly well, yeah.

It's too bad. AOFAS gets this (roughly 65-75 grads/yr with almost all having good to excellent skill/training)...
Podiatry sure does not get it (now up to 600+ /yr and growing with wide training variances).

There are only so many patients, so many jobs.
It's now up to over 70% of MD/DOs are employed by hospitals or large orgs (mega or big groups)... podiatry is what? 20% employed in jobs like that from the limited info we have in the PM or ACFAS or APMA surveys??? We are faaaar oversupplied and under-demanded. Heck, our only real bargain chip for those jobs is that we are cheap and we can do unwanted services (vs Vasc and Ortho and GSurg and Derm and etc).

...Podiatry will see the fate of pharmacy: only increasingly terrible ROI and unfilled school seats and forced school closures/freeze might force changes and new leadership that could fix it.
After that happens, improvement could occur (close/consolidate our MANY inadequate and just plain bad residencies) as mentioned above.
Hopefully I will be out the game and at the beach with Maya Jama or bushcraft base camp gettin ready to go hunting.

As podiatry ROI slumps from saturation and tuition inflation, then yes "Unfortunately everything is about the money for pods." It was that way and it will escalate. The DPMs out in practice need to pay their ballooning loans. They want to scrape what ROI they can. They will do what pays (bogus wound grafts, "custom" braces, whatever). You see it in chiropractic and other saturated professions also: wacky cash pay services, very poor ROI, fraud, wild marketing, OTC products... just a whole lot of scams. It's not necessarily that they want to; they simply don't have very many other options.

...Saturation can't be fixed with more effort or skill.
If a town has too many McDonalds or Starbucks, then it has too many McDonalds or Starbucks. That cannot be fixed with a tastier burger or friendlier baristas. Nope.
If there were 100 Pat Mahomes, then every NFL team would have one (and another one as a backup). They'd all be worth a whole lot less as a result.
It's the same for anything medical: orthopedics or CRNAs with twice as many of them (even if same/better training) would not be worth nearly as much. That is just how supply/demand is.

 

[podourology]

Speak for yourself. I did have the MCAT and resumé to go allopathic but I genuinely enjoyed podiatry.

As Feli explained so well though, there's just such a vast range in podiatry training and abilities. I've had general surgeons genuinely shocked I do surgery, thinking we all just chip and clip. Some of it has to do with where you practice. Where I am, podiatry isn't even a commonly known specialty. People often mistake it with pediatrics or have no idea what I'm saying.

Our professional leadership is just so wayward. We should focus our efforts on improving the existing residencies and schools, not just flood the supply.

And hosting a workshop is so inadequate. I've seen students and residents that had no business being a surgeon. They would be a liability to just chip and clip all day.

You still ended up here. I was a strong DO candidate. I liked podiatry, I had a negative stigma that DO all ended up a fam med docs, which turns out to be wrong. Pod i shadowed was chill and a real influence on me. My own naivety and ignorance made me forgo considering/wide application to DO, even though my MCAT/GPA were in the mean range. We all have our own reasons, you just don't see me calling people dum dums, because we are the top dum dums.

Yes, above with @Forcewielder is correct.
I would've replied sooner, but I have OP on ignore, so this thread doesn't always show up for me.

...The sad thing you'll realize is that working harder and having better skill can't overcome saturation. It's supply and demand.

People go to people who treat them well. In my hometown my pod who had 2 years of training and does surgery 1 day a week was making alot more then the fellow trained across town. He was nice to people, a good surgeon, made people feel comfortable. Did he know more about flat foot recons then the fellow? Probably not. He even revised a few of that young guys complications. Never talked bad about him. Also was not pushing DME and laser therapy.

Just because you have more **** doesn't mean you will get all the flies, they prefer honey.


One thing I agree, if someone is not competent with sub 3.0 gpa and <490 mcat, they are less likely to make it to graduation. Schools are predatory for misleading students and not supporting them. In my own opinion it is negligence and fraud on the schools parts,. who offer no support in the school. Where in most MD/DO schools there are a lot more outlets.

 

[Forcewielder]

One thing I agree, if someone is not competent with sub 3.0 gpa and <490 mcat, they are less likely to make it to graduation. Schools are predatory for misleading students and not supporting them. In my own opinion it is negligence and fraud on the schools parts,. who offer no support in the school. Where in most MD/DO schools there are a lot more outlets.

On this I agree. Universities in general are predatory. If student loans were merit based you'd quickly see a huge shift in applicants. We had older students in my class that had no qualms saying they'd never pay off their loans, and planned to make minimum payments to the day they died. We also had students who interviewed only a month or 2 before the semester, had sub-standard resumés, and were essentially just filling a vacant seat. You can't blame the school in some regard because the overhead is the same regardless of student population size. However, many in the class had no business being there, and it showed. Can you imagine starting school, being 50k in debt by the end of the 1st year, and realizing you're the bottom of the class? No great options at that point.

 

[Forcewielder]

...Saturation can't be fixed with more effort or skill.
If a town has too many McDonalds or Starbucks, then it has too many McDonalds or Starbucks. That cannot be fixed with a tastier burger or friendlier baristas. Nope.
If there were 100 Pat Mahomes, then every NFL team would have one (and another one as a backup). They'd all be worth a whole lot less as a result.
It's the same for anything medical: orthopedics or CRNAs with twice as many of them (even if same/better training) would not be worth nearly as much. That is just how supply/demand is.

Well said. I don't see it getting better before it gets much, much worse.

Just an observation I've had (I'm sure it's been brought up in other threads before I started reading). The trend in medicine is for everything to consolidate. Smaller hospitals are getting bought up by larger systems and larger systems are merging. Meanwhile, podiatry is heavily weighted towards PP, and that percentage is only going to increase with over saturation as grads will take what they can get.

It's likely going to get pretty rough the next decade and beyond. HeyBrother has had some interesting posts about how much lower reimbursements are now compared to 3-4 years ago. It is pretty scary when you consider that trend vs the national inflation rate. But let's flood the market with more podiatrists! That will fix it!