Cornell vs Columbia

[PatentForamenOvale]

Hi everyone! I'm stuck and trying to get some outside perspective before making a final decision! Cost of attendance is pretty much the same for both schools, so that isn't a factor. Any feedback would be great! Thanks!

For context, I'm interested mainly in ortho or PM&R and want to do research in health equity, potentially related to disability/chronic illness if possible!

Cornell
Pros

• Available research tracks I'd be interested in:
  • Rehabilitation Medicine
  • Patient-Centered Care and Health Equity
• Affiliated with HSS
• Guaranteed housing all 4 years
  • Nice and affordable apartments for M2-M4
• Responsive disability services office-- they responded in less than a day! (I will need accommodations)
• Upper East Side
  • Really nice area
  • Much closer to downtown/Broadway than Columbia
• All students get free iPads with all necessary materials pre-loaded onto them (and you get to keep them after graduating)
• The financial aid dept will cover a laptop upgrade if you get any need-based aid

Cons

• Have to live in a dorm in M1
• AOC pre-match (Columbia's is post-match)
• Required attendance (although I'm a fan of PBL other than the required attendance at 8 am lol)

Columbia
Pros

• One of my good friends will be going here!
• Available research tracks I'd be interested in:
  • Global and Population Health
• Top preparation for residency program (according to the school anyway lol)
• Lots of work with underserved populations
  • Lots of Spanish-speaking patients makes learning Medical Spanish easy!
• Nice apartments with access to a pool (I'm a swimmer)
  • No dorm living lol
  • I'd have priority in the housing lottery b/c of my accommodations and the fact that I'm from CA (they assign priority by distance from NYC)
• Recorded lectures
• Beautiful VEC
• VP&S Club is huge-- tons of clubs to get involved with

Cons

• Unresponsive disability services office compared to Cornell's office (I will need accommodations)
  • I've also heard mixed things about admin support, but idk how much I stock I should put into this... One student summed it up as "Columbia is great if your interests lie in their wheelhouse/existing resources, otherwise you're treated like an inconvenience"
• Have to share classes/cadavers with dental students (Cornell doesn't have a dental program)
• I've heard that the community clinics are competitive to get into

Summary: Cornell seems to be better for my ortho/PM&R interests and has some financial/housing perks, but I would have to live in a dorm my first year and wouldn't have one of my friends as a fellow M1. Columbia has amazing facilities, lots of clubs, and I would have a friend going in, but I've heard mixed things about admin and competitiveness.

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[Bowel-Plumber]

Both great schools and I think I’m leaning towards Columbia because of the AOA post Match.

Also, I’m not entirely confident, but ai’m pretty sure you’ll run into the same cadaver issue at Cornell because I heard the med students share the cadavers with the PA students. I would look into this to confirm but if so then at least that removes your one of your cons Columbia

Also, I’m not sure what accommodations you need and you don’t need to share but if you need accommodations then making a decision shouldn’t be difficult because I’m pretty sure you could reach out to both schools’ accommodations office and let them know what you need and see if they offer them. If one of them can’t, then you shouldn’t be going to that school if you need accommodations. Just saying I don’t think this is a pro/con debate because whatever you need should be figured out before you even matriculate

 

[PatentForamenOvale]

Both great schools and I think I’m leaning towards Columbia because of the AOA post Match.

Also, I’m not entirely confident, but ai’m pretty sure you’ll run into the same cadaver issue at Cornell because I heard the med students share the cadavers with the PA students. I would look into this to confirm but if so then at least that removes your one of your cons Columbia

Also, I’m not sure what accommodations you need and you don’t need to share but if you need accommodations then making a decision shouldn’t be difficult because I’m pretty sure you could reach out to both schools’ accommodations office and let them know what you need and see if they offer them. If one of them can’t, then you shouldn’t be going to that school if you need accommodations. Just saying I don’t think this is a pro/con debate because whatever you need should be figured out before you even matriculate

At the second look for Cornell, they said the med students don’t share the cadavers with the PA students— the two groups take anatomy at separate times.

As for the accommodations, I don’t think getting them is an issue (I don’t require anything I would think they wouldn’t have done before), but how supportive admin and faculty are can affect how effective those accommodations are (ie will teachers/preceptors give me a hard time about using my accommodations), which I can’t really get a sense of from a website/email… I only included that point to emphasize that admin support is important to me and in case anyone had any additional insight on that topic.

On the point of AOA— does it being post-match really make that big of a difference? I understand it can cause some stress, but it didn’t seem like something big enough to base a decision off of…

 

[Bowel-Plumber]

At the second look for Cornell, they said the med students don’t share the cadavers with the PA students— the two groups take anatomy at separate times.

As for the accommodations, I don’t think getting them is an issue (I don’t require anything I would think they wouldn’t have done before), but how supportive admin and faculty are can affect how effective those accommodations are (ie will teachers/preceptors give me a hard time about using my accommodations), which I can’t really get a sense of from a website/email… I only included that point to emphasize that admin support is important to me and in case anyone had any additional insight on that topic.

On the point of AOA— does it being post-match really make that big of a difference? I understand it can cause some stress, but it didn’t seem like something big enough to base a decision off of…

I’m just an applicant as well so I really don’t know so much. But from what I understand, AOA is a form of ranking. I’m not sure how the ranking works exactly but I’ll make something up for the sample. Let’s say you can be ranked in quartiles. Although it’s P/F, if you’re just barely passing then sure it’s still a pass but maybe you’ll be in the bottom quartile in the class since everyone else is doing better. And the opposite is true as well.

If someone gets an AOA before match, then residencies will know. Maybe the transcript is full of passes, but they were in the bottom quartile of their class. If you get the AOA after matching, then your worries are gone because you’re already going to residency wherever you’re going. It’s just a level of stress that you can either have or not have.

As for the accommodation, I can’t imagine it being up to a specific professor or even someone in admin, regardless of what the accommodation is. I worked as a grad TA at my undergrad and I was listed as an instructor for the course so I got all emails from the university’s accommodation center when we needed to do something for a student (like extra time and other stuff). If that center told us that we needed to let the student take the exam while being underwater then we are going to let the student take the exam while being underwater whether we like it or not. There are laws about disabilities and at least at my undergrad, us instructors followed whatever the student accommodation center told us to follow no questions asked (not that we ever disputed it, just saying they had the power).

I would definitely find that center for both Cornell and Columbia starting now and let them know. They will likely have hoops and doctors notes and meetings and whatnot for you to actually get approved for whatever it is you need, but once you’re approved, there should be no faculty or admin who could take those rights away from you. I’m pretty sure that’s the law

 

[PatentForamenOvale]

I’m just an applicant as well so I really don’t know so much. But from what I understand, AOA is a form of ranking. I’m not sure how the ranking works exactly but I’ll make something up for the sample. Let’s say you can be ranked in quartiles. Although it’s P/F, if you’re just barely passing then sure it’s still a pass but maybe you’ll be in the bottom quartile in the class since everyone else is doing better. And the opposite is true as well.

If someone gets an AOA before match, then residencies will know. Maybe the transcript is full of passes, but they were in the bottom quartile of their class. If you get the AOA after matching, then your worries are gone because you’re already going to residency wherever you’re going. It’s just a level of stress that you can either have or not have.

As for the accommodation, I can’t imagine it being up to a specific professor or even someone in admin, regardless of what the accommodation is. I worked as a grad TA at my undergrad and I was listed as an instructor for the course so I got all emails from the university’s accommodation center when we needed to do something for a student (like extra time and other stuff). If that center told us that we needed to let the student take the exam while being underwater then we are going to let the student take the exam while being underwater whether we like it or not. There are laws about disabilities and at least at my undergrad, us instructors followed whatever the student accommodation center told us to follow no questions asked (not that we ever disputed it, just saying they had the power).

I would definitely find that center for both Cornell and Columbia starting now and let them know. They will likely have hoops and doctors notes and meetings and whatnot for you to actually get approved for whatever it is you need, but once you’re approved, there should be no faculty or admin who could take those rights away from you. I’m pretty sure that’s the law

I had accommodations in undergrad so I know what the process is like and already reached out to both schools to get the process started. While by law, they can’t deny “reasonable accommodations”, it doesn’t mean that instructors don’t judge you or show any bias in subjective evaluations, which is what I’m worried about (and have experienced at multiple institutions).

With both schools having H/HP/P/F in clinical, do you think AOA is still extra stressful? I can see it being a small factor, but feel like I’d be more focused on the initial ranking I get in clinicals instead of AOA

 

[Bowel-Plumber]

I had accommodations in undergrad so I know what the process is like and already reached out to both schools to get the process started. While by law, they can’t deny “reasonable accommodations”, it doesn’t mean that instructors don’t judge you or show any bias in subjective evaluations, which is what I’m worried about (and have experienced at multiple institutions).

With both schools having H/HP/P/F in clinical, do you think AOA is still extra stressful? I can see it being a small factor, but feel like I’d be more focused on the initial ranking I get in clinicals instead of AOA

My bad, I didn’t know the accommodations were meant for clinical years. In that sense, I feel like there’s no way of knowing who you’re going to get. You can get a horrible human being as your evaluator or an angel whether you go to Columbia or Cornell or any other school on the planet. I feel like that just comes to the luck of the draw. Perhaps you could try to ask the schools if they know someone who had a similar experience and may be willing to talk to you about it, but I wouldn’t expect that to go too far.

As for AOA, I guess the fact that both schools have graded clerkships does diminish the stress from that aspect. Perhaps a student from either school could chime in?

 

[2023applicantxd]

I had accommodations in undergrad so I know what the process is like and already reached out to both schools to get the process started. While by law, they can’t deny “reasonable accommodations”, it doesn’t mean that instructors don’t judge you or show any bias in subjective evaluations, which is what I’m worried about (and have experienced at multiple institutions).

With both schools having H/HP/P/F in clinical, do you think AOA is still extra stressful? I can see it being a small factor, but feel like I’d be more focused on the initial ranking I get in clinicals instead of AOA

(I’m on Cornell’s WL as a disclaimer)
Idk what I’d choose if I were in ur position tbh

But one of the students said it’s very difficult to get Honors at Cornell and then said but that’s good and bad bc if you get honors it looks good as opposed to other schools where they give honors to everyone like they do across the street, but bad bc you have to try super hard to get honors, and I think she was talking abt Colombia