Child Neuro vs NDD vs Peds+DBP

[wickerwocka]

I've always been interested in neurodevelopment and have been looking into different programs that will allow me to pursue this. Child Neuro, Neurodevelopmental Disorders, and Peds+DBP all seem to match what I'm looking for, and I was wondering if people had insight into similarities/differences between these paths and whether any of them had any advantages/disadvantages compared to the others.

To me, NDD seems be the closest to what I'm interested in since it aims to follow developmental disorders from childhood into adulthood, but there's so little information about it and there are fewer than 10 spots each year, so it may not be the most realistic.

Thanks so much!!

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[scneuro]

If you're really interested in NDD, you should do an away rotation in it at one of the institutions that offer NDD programs. Regarding NDD vs DBP- they are similar yet have distinct differences in their origins. I myself did an NDD away and found it to be very helpful, so I applied both NDD and Peds Neuro. Ultimately it came down to what felt like the best fit at each institution on how it affected my rank list. But in order to make an informed decision, you must first experience all of your options so you can see if one field is a better fit for your personality and your career goals. So my advice, if you are considering NDD or DBP do an away and see if it fits!

 

[Andreji]

I was in a similar debacle recently. I'm wrapping up my categorical peds training this June with similar fluctuating aspirations towards all three possibilities each on a separate level. My ultimate aspiration is towards developmental neurology (more than hard core neuro or than behavioral peds, to distance myself from those two ends) and NDD seemed to serve my aspirations most closely. They all have advantages and disadvantages of course.

If you are willing to endure maybe an extra year (or are undecided) I would suggest going into gen peds and teasing things out via your elective/mandatory rotations. I underwent a neuro rotation and a neuro elective as well as 2mo of DBP prior to making a decision (and then subsequently an additional 'continuity' NDD clinic in the months preceding the match and thereafter). I felt these were all very helpful to decide and, coming to the game very, very late was not a significant obstacle. If you are willing to ask around and- depending on how late you do so- you will find there are many, many spots for child neuro and for NDD to start following your completion of 2yrs (advanced) or 3yrs (reserved) of peds. this gives you the most margin as well should you decide to apply for DBP (consider DBP apps are fall match for peds- that's august your 3rd yr) or CN/NDD (which would be through the residency match on sept of your 2nd or 3rd year, whatever you choose to do). Remember, asking alone makes plenty of programs offer spots otherwise not advertised (even in the small niche of NDD).

I matched NDD this spring to start this July, for clarity's sake.

If you want any of my specific thoughts on my ultimate choice send me a msg.

 

[neuroneurd]

Glad to see people are interested in and finding NDD! I originally was planning on Child Neuro and found out about NDD just a few months before ERAS was due. So I ended up doing an away rotation in NDD and it was the smartest choice I made in the fourth year. I interviewed for both Child Neuro and NDD but ultimately decided on the latter and am now starting a 6 year NDD program because like you I am interested in development but also because it offers dedicated and paid for research time at most institutions, which was really important to me. You are right there are very few programs and also that little information is available. Each program also has it's own spin on things too so there is somewhat greater variability between NDD programs as compared to between child neuro programs. In terms of NDD vs DBP there is a fundamental difference in terms of the type of training you get (no formal neurological training in DBP) but also in the mindset... NDD is very much interested in uncovering the neurobiolgoical mechanisms of these complex disabilities and then developing mechanism-based therapeutics to treat them. If that perspective is of interest to you then I would very strongly recommend considering NDD.

In all it's impossible to describe all aspects of the options but I interviewed at many child neuro and all the NDD programs offering a spot last year. I'd be happy to talk to anyone considering the pathway, this year or in the future!

 

[mjaggie24]

Glad to see people are interested in and finding NDD! I originally was planning on Child Neuro and found out about NDD just a few months before ERAS was due. So I ended up doing an away rotation in NDD and it was the smartest choice I made in the fourth year. I interviewed for both Child Neuro and NDD but ultimately decided on the latter and am now starting a 6 year NDD program because like you I am interested in development but also because it offers dedicated and paid for research time at most institutions, which was really important to me. You are right there are very few programs and also that little information is available. Each program also has it's own spin on things too so there is somewhat greater variability between NDD programs as compared to between child neuro programs. In terms of NDD vs DBP there is a fundamental difference in terms of the type of training you get (no formal neurological training in DBP) but also in the mindset... NDD is very much interested in uncovering the neurobiolgoical mechanisms of these complex disabilities and then developing mechanism-based therapeutics to treat them. If that perspective is of interest to you then I would very strongly recommend considering NDD.

In all it's impossible to describe all aspects of the options but I interviewed at many child neuro and all the NDD programs offering a spot last year. I'd be happy to talk to anyone considering the pathway, this year or in the future!

Hey neuroneurd (or anyone else with insight):

I was curious as to what the practice setting options are for those specializing in NDD. Is it only academic or are there some neurodevelopmental doctors in group or private practice settings? I am very interested in NDD, but I am finding it difficult to discover information about the practicalities of the specialty online, such as life style, salary, practice setting, etc. Any information you could provide would be very helpful! Thanks

 

[neuroneurd]

Hey mjaggie24. There isn't lots of data just because there aren't a lot of graduates that have established the paths NDD graduates can go. The specialty was established formally in 2001 with just 2 programs then and then the other 6 coming about in the next 2-5 years. Each program graduates 1-2 people per year, and many years spots will go unfilled at certain programs. Plus it takes 6 years to cook an NDD specialist . So we are just looking at the first 5 or so years of people that have gone through the new formally designed residency. From the graduates I've met, there are lots of paths to take -- academic or private practice -- and it largely depends on personal preference. Some people continue as a pure child neurologist, some do further neurology fellowship, some become more pure developmenalists, and some create a fusion practice of neurology, development, and then how to two fields intersect. Some are involved in research and some are purely clinicians. I have met and/or heard of graduates taking each of these paths in both academic and private/group settings. I think its fair to say you are attractive because you are highly trained through a rigorously long residency in a field where specialists are desperately needed everywhere; moreover, you are managing disabilities that other pediatricians and neurologists frequently don't want to manage. If you go to the job listings on the Child Neurology Society website, you will frequently see that a large proportion are looking for someone NDD or DBP peds trained. Salary for an NDD specialist is likely comparable to what a child neurologist would make, but again there is not enough N to really know and provide means and standard deviations. I also don't think there is any clear data to show if DBP or NDD makes more, but the latter may offer greater salaries because you will most likely also be involved in inpatient neurology call.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you or anyone else have any questions about this exciting field!

 

[Dr. Bojangles]

I know this thread is a little old, but I am very interested in doing NDD or a neurology residency with a behavioral neurology fellowship. I was accepted to DO schools to start in Fall 2016, and I'm wondering if being a DO I would have a chance at an NDD residency? I know no one can say for certain but maybe just some general ideas? I'm planning way ahead here, but I just like to know my options.

 

[neuroneurd]

I know this thread is a little old, but I am very interested in doing NDD or a neurology residency with a behavioral neurology fellowship. I was accepted to DO schools to start in Fall 2016, and I'm wondering if being a DO I would have a chance at an NDD residency? I know no one can say for certain but maybe just some general ideas? I'm planning way ahead here, but I just like to know my options.

Hey, that's awesome! I don't think you are planning too early at all. I would imagine that with evidence that you are clearly dedicated to the field it wouldn't really make that big of a difference being a DO or not. Is there someone at your med school that is a child neurologist interested in development or a DBP trained pediatrician? I think it would be great if they began to mentor you in the early years and then as an MS4 you did an away rotation somewhere that had an NDD program. Feel free to PM me more if you want to chat.

 

[Dr. Bojangles]

Hey, that's awesome! I don't think you are planning too early at all. I would imagine that with evidence that you are clearly dedicated to the field it wouldn't really make that big of a difference being a DO or not. Is there someone at your med school that is a child neurologist interested in development or a DBP trained pediatrician? I think it would be great if they began to mentor you in the early years and then as an MS4 you did an away rotation somewhere that had an NDD program. Feel free to PM me more if you want to chat.

Thank you for the advice! I've been working with people with autism and other similar disorders for a few years and it's what made me want to go to medical school. I'm sure will be able to show interest. I'll look more into child neurologists in the area.

 

[arshaa]

I was in a similar debacle recently. I'm wrapping up my categorical peds training this June with similar fluctuating aspirations towards all three possibilities each on a separate level. My ultimate aspiration is towards developmental neurology (more than hard core neuro or than behavioral peds, to distance myself from those two ends) and NDD seemed to serve my aspirations most closely. They all have advantages and disadvantages of course.

If you are willing to endure maybe an extra year (or are undecided) I would suggest going into gen peds and teasing things out via your elective/mandatory rotations. I underwent a neuro rotation and a neuro elective as well as 2mo of DBP prior to making a decision (and then subsequently an additional 'continuity' NDD clinic in the months preceding the match and thereafter). I felt these were all very helpful to decide and, coming to the game very, very late was not a significant obstacle. If you are willing to ask around and- depending on how late you do so- you will find there are many, many spots for child neuro and for NDD to start following your completion of 2yrs (advanced) or 3yrs (reserved) of peds. this gives you the most margin as well should you decide to apply for DBP (consider DBP apps are fall match for peds- that's august your 3rd yr) or CN/NDD (which would be through the residency match on sept of your 2nd or 3rd year, whatever you choose to do). Remember, asking alone makes plenty of programs offer spots otherwise not advertised (even in the small niche of NDD).

I matched NDD this spring to start this July, for clarity's sake.

If you want any of my specific thoughts on my ultimate choice send me a msg.

HI I know you posted this a very long time ago but I applied to NDD this year and was hoping I could talk to someone.

 

[neurokids1]

If I am in a child neurology residency, would I be able to still specialize in Neurodevelopmental disabilities (NDD)?

Are there any fellowships programs planned in the coming years? How would I find information about possible fellowships being developed, like those in NDD?