Child Magazine rates Children's Hospitals - Any Thoughts?

[ubiquitous]

I just found this rank list of children's hospitals by Child magazine:

http://www.child.com/kids/health_nutrition/top_hospitals03.jsp?page=1

I thought that those of you currently interviewing would find it interesting. I wanted to know if anyone had any thoughts about this list (accuracy, validity, etc.). I'd also be interested to hear comments from those who interviewed at any of these hospitals as well. The ranking seems to be much more objective than US News (see article for how the survey was conducted).

Thanks!
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The top hospitals are as follows:

1 The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP)
2 Children's Hospital Boston
3 Rainbow Babies & Children's Hospital, Cleveland
4 Texas Children's Hospital, Houston
5 University of Michigan C.S. Mott Children's Hospital, Ann Arbor
6 St. Louis Children's Hospital
7 Children's National Medical Center, Washington, DC
8 Children's Mercy Hospitals & Clinics, Kansas City, MO
9 Children's Hospital and Regional Medical Center, Seattle
10 Primary Children's Medical Center, Salt Lake City

Runners Up:

11. Medical University of South Carolina Children's Hospital, Charleston
12. Children's Hospital at Montefiore, Bronx, NY
13 (tie). Children's Hospital of Michigan, Detroit
13 (tie). Columbus Children's Hospital, Ohio
15. The Children's Hospital, Denver
16 (tie). All Children's Hospital, St. Petersburg, FL
16 (tie). Wolfson Children's Hospital, Jacksonville, FL
18. Riley Hospital for Children, Indianapolis
19. Connecticut Children's Medical Center, Hartford
20. Barbara Bush Children's Hospital at Maine Medical Center, Portland
21. Children's Hospital Medical Center of Akron, Ohio
22. Children's Hospital of Orange County, Orange, CA
23 (tie). The Children's Medical Center, Dayton, OH
23 (tie). Inova Fairfax Hospital for Children, Fairfax, VA
25. Joseph M. Sanzari Children's Hospital, Hackensack, NJ

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[rastelli]

As with all rank lists based on surveys, I wouldn't read too much into them. Of course the top 5 or 10 probably belong up there in some sort of order...perhaps arranged differently.

However, I did interview at Baylor...Texas Childrens Hospital...and found the facilities to be incredible! Words truly cannot do the hospital justice. If anyone out there has the opportunity to check out TCH, I strongly recommend taking advantage. Everything is brand-spanking new and state-of-the-art, ultramodern. From the echo lab designed by NASA to the Aikman Center (yes, named after the famous Cowboy) where patients can teleconference with other patients around the country, this place is way cool. There's even an in-house radio station.

I have no doubt that Rainbow, CHOP, Seattle, etc are also excellent places to train. It's crucial to check out each of them in person...this is the only way to truly get the vibe of the hospital/staff.

Good luck to all...Cheers.

 

[jdog]

These rankings are useless as a marker of quality of residency program. I think whoever did this study lives in Ohio because every damn hospital in the state is listed, except for some reason Cincinatti, which according to just about everyone you talk to is clearly the best. This is also regionally biased. There is one program in the southeaset on this list (Florida does not count). If you are going to tell me that Duke, UNC, Vanderbilt, Emory, UAB, Johns Hopkins do not make this list, than this list is bogus. Rainbow Babies may be a great hospital, but they filled less than half of their program last year. I wouldn't touch the place with a 10 foot pole for residency.

 

[ubiquitous]

Thanks for the feedback rastelli and jdog!

I'm pretty early in my medical training, but wondering if you have any suggestions for investigating residency programs pre-residency interviews. I know that I won't be able to apply to every program of interest, and sometimes the residency websites contain minimal information. Beyond rank lists and websites, are there any other avenues to garner info. on these programs. I'm not yet in my clinical years so I don't know anything about info. you get then.

TIA

 

[rastelli]

I gotta say, jdog is right on the mark. UAB, Vandy, UNC, and Duke are top-notch programs. At least some of them should be ranked high.

One thing to keep in mind though, the survey (I believe) dealt with the hospitals. The quality of the residency programs was not specifically evaluated.

As far as finding info ubiquitous, I'm not sure what to tell you. I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it until you're in your third year. Hell, I initially wanted to go into surgery! Much can happen (and change) as you check out each specialty during your clinical year. Take it easy...you'll have plenty of time to investigate all the programs you want.

 

[jdog]

The best thing to do, if not the only thing to do, is talk to the higher ups in your peds program that you trust and ask them. Unfortunatley, this stuff is basically all word of mouth. But for peds it is not hard to figure out which programs are considered tops. Also, there as tons and tons of very good peds programs out there and your will be able to decipher which ones meet your needs. Chill until late third year at the earliest.

 

[mhdousa]

Ubiquitous,

I would echo what jdog says about asking pediatricians which programs they think are good. Make sure you take into consideration the age of the person you're asking -- often info is outdated. An example: a program that I had heard horrible things about from older pediatricians is one of my top choices -- all the problems that I had heard about were things the program fixed a few years ago.
If it's someone young or a resident, ask them what other programs they looked at, and why they picked the particular program they did. Also, it's helpful to think about what you may want in a program: i.e. location, type of hospital, size. This can guide your investigation.
I don't think it's too early to be thinking about these things. But don't get caught up in it at the expense of your classes or studying for Step I. And, like rastelli said, you may not end up doing pediatrics at all. Just keep an open mind as you do each clinical rotation and ask yourself "Could I be happy doing this field for the rest of my life?" You get more out of each rotation this way, in my opinion. And in the end, you may decide that peds is really what you want to do...but, at least you took the time to make sure of it.

-M

 

[HiFi]

I can vouch for Texas Childrens / Baylor program, having done my fellowship there.

the person that posted how increadibly impressive this place is was exactly right.

you CANNOT comprehend the vast greatness of the Texas Medical Center.

What is not often noted is $$$$$$$$$, and they have money to spare.
While other well known programs are cutting budgets, TCH is thriving thanks to Ralph Feigin MD who is not only Brilliant, but a great businessman....also, I can think of NO other person in America that it would be better to have in your corner ( except for Maybe President Bush.... )
Ralph Feigin takes care of his residents. He runs a first class operation, and billions of dollars in research money and new construction is the result. Other places are downsizing, Baylor is supersizing!

I would choose TX Childrens for residency or Fellowship over any other place in America. Period. end of discussion. It's like going to play for the New York Yankees vs your local soft ball team. They are #1........other places are surviving on "name recognition"....uh huh, Boston Childrens...etc

I don't care what rankings are out there.
They are number 1.

The only drawback is that you need to brush up on Spanish because some time is spent at Ben Taub hospital, and a lot of the patients are hispanic.......of course, if you are going to be a fellow, then the resident can translate!

 

[group_theory]

CHOP (children's hospital of philadelphia)

In the last few years, while other hospitals have been losing money, CHOP has been making money.

2nd largest NIH funding for research, slightly behind Boston. Around 1997, the new Abramson Research Building was completed. VERY VERY VERY NICE
Around 2001 - the administration decided they wanted more research space so they attrach more basic science researchers along w/ their NIH grants. Construction started on the upgrade - with CHOP's own money - not loans or federal grants or state grants.

btw, CHOP has over $1 billion in endowment.

You can also use resources at HUP if need be - such as hyperbaric chamber, med library, etc.

But I think the reason why Child Magazine ranked CHOP #1 is the attention to details - like giving bicycle helmets to kids who come in w/ head injuries (I know, current controvery about the effectiveness of bike helmets)
CHOP also has developed an excellent community pediatric programs located throughout the state and NJ.

Anyway - just for your info

Group_theory
Penn Class of 2003
PCOM Class of 2007

 

[caedmon]

Tex,

I guess you are certain that Texas Children's is the best because you have visited and rounded with all 200 programs in the nation.

How much of those billions of dollars came from Enron by the way.

CHOP may be a great hospital but the most normal person at that place is the program coordinator. He is the only one who was not arrogant as hell. Can't say the same for my interviewers though. That is one place that will not be on my rank list. Baby Magazine may say it is number 1, but I give it a big fat ZERO.

 

[rastelli]

Originally posted by caedmon
Tex,

I guess you are certain that Texas Children's is the best because you have visited and rounded with all 200 programs in the nation. "

Come on caedmon, don't be an ass ...always nay-saying. Perhaps "Tex" as you like to refer to him/her might be able to offer a bit seeing as how they completed residency and fellowship. Maybe you're willing to check out all 200+ programs in the U.S. to determine which is best. Personally, I think that's a waste of time. With few exceptions, future pediatricians know which programs are the best in the country. I'm not saying the best for you, but the best of the best...over all. Rankings, however you wish to interpret them, are not TOTALLY random.

I have a feeling you're either a pre-med or a MS1,2, or 3 since you don't seem well versed in the whole process. Perhaps you have a platinum Amex and beaucoup frequent flyer miles to blow on your tour of Pediatrics, U.S.A. When you make it to New Orleans, look me up. I'll buy you a beer to calm your ass down.



PS---Good luck on remembering/digesting/discerning/ specific info from each of the programs on your journey...say "Hi" to Forest Gump for me.

 

[Lt. Ub]

CHOP is unreal, I love it!

 

[mhdousa]

this is sweet...all the other boards have had their cat-fights, and now we've
finally got one!
our little peds board is all growns up!

-M

 

[jdog]

HiFi,

I almost climaxed while reading you description of Texas Children's. It sounds like God himself is the program director over there. Could you possibly be more condescending and sound like more of a fool?

You basically just said that Harvard and other programs like it only get by on their name. The last time I looked I didn't see Harvard striving to be the next Texas Childrens, I think it is the other way around.

I challenge you to go to the PD of, let's say, Duke, Hopkins, Denver, Seattle, Cincinatti, etc, etc, with this post. After they finish laughing at your misguided arrogance they will start laughing again.

Finally, I would rather have a lot of people in my corner than Dr. God at Texas Kids, like, say, J LO, Trista.

Peace out Yo

 

[xaelia]

Yes, CHOP continues to impress me the longer I spend here. Columbia Presbyterian, Rainbow Babies, Montefiore and Cincinnati Children's were all also pretty neat. The inclusion of Dayton, Columbus and Akron and the exclusion of Cincinnati is rather odd, though. I doubt anyone would say Cincinnati Children's is the 5th-best hospital in Ohio....

Curious to see what Vanderbilt's new children's hospital is like....

 

[felson]

I agree with HiFI that there are great resources at the TX Med Ctr and Dr. Feigin has been a great plus for the hospital. He is the editor of the well-used book, is able to get big donors for the hospital and wisely invested money such that he was able to give his residents additional stipend on top of the Baylor resident salary. He entertains groups of residents at his home and goes to bat for his people. He is also very humble and would be the last person to boast about his program. But I don't know how involved he can be with TCH since he has moved on to head the Baylor College of Medicine.

 

[rastelli]

Just to clear up a point. Feigin is indeed the President of BCM, however he is stepping down from that position this Spring.

Incidentally, during his term he was very active in the residency program. You'd be hard pressed to find a chairman as involved. Twice a week he does teaching rounds with the residents only. At many programs in the country you'd be lucky if you interacted more than once a month with the Chairman.

That said, does anyone have any good info on Seattle peds.? I have a buddy looking there as he sorts his ROL.

Continued good luck to all...

 

[ejtan0]

So is Feigin leaving the residency or just BCM?

 

[rastelli]

He's just leaving his post as President of Baylor College of Medicine.

He'll remain as Chairman of Pediatrics and Physician-in-Chief of Texas Children's.

 

[shindog]

I did research at WashU/Barnes-Jewish/St. LouisChildren's for two years and my dad is currently involved with building the several hundred-million dollar edition to the Children's Hospital. Like some of the others mentioned, St. Louis Children's Hospital has money to burn and is almost doubling the size of the hospital. Also, like some of the others, world-renowned physicians reside there. Their pediatric anesthesiology department is second to none.

 

[Gator05]

Shindog,

Interesting note of the peds anesthesia deptat WashU. What makes them so stellar? Case type?

Interesting; with many local adult hospitals searching the lounges for loose change, it amazes me how most of the peds hospitals do seem to be thriving. How is this so?

 

[HiFi]

Originally posted by jdog
.

I challenge you to go to the PD of, let's say, Duke, Hopkins, Denver, Seattle, Cincinatti, etc, etc, with this post. After they finish laughing at your misguided arrogance they will start laughing again.

mad because you didn't get an interview?




PS: I interviewed at CHOP, Denver, Cincy, Univ Mich, Rainbow, etc so I do have some experience..........

 

[jdog]

Also interviewed at CHOP, Rainbow, Cincy, turned down my offer at Mich, so not impressed with your BS diatribes, and since I just did interviews, I have more current insight than you anyway. Thank you for your famously arrogant and assinine advice though. I will be sure to put it my pipe and smoke it. God Bless Baylor and may every program strive to be just like it, especially programs like Harvard, which "just get by on their name"

Have a nice day

 

[Gator05]

Good grief...could this get much more acerbic?

 

[shindog]

Originally posted by Gator05
Shindog,

Interesting note of the peds anesthesia deptat WashU. What makes them so stellar? Case type?

Interesting; with many local adult hospitals searching the lounges for loose change, it amazes me how most of the peds hospitals do seem to be thriving. How is this so?

At St. Louis Children's, a lot of complicated cases are flown in from around the country. Especially from the midwest. That is one reason STL Children's is thriving. If you live near St. Louis and your kid needs surgery or has a rare disorder, you take him to Children's. Cardinal Glennons's Children Hospital is ok, but mainly caters to indigent families.

The training, the case types (volume and variety), the attendings, the didactics, the research, and the facilities all contribute to this being a top tier program.

 

[felson]

Feigin trained at Wash U and taught there for quite a while.

 

[CJLaw]

Maybe its too small time for SDNers, but I'm from PA and here if we live in northeastern, central, or northwestern PA and need the best pediatric care.. . we send our kids to Geisinger Medical Center in Danville. Why doesn't that program get any loveon this board? If there a problem that the locals don't know about, please explain.