Applying to residency after a gap

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Grassnotgreener

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How difficult is it to match after a substantial gap after graduating (say, 5 years or so)?

I graduated within the past few years from an MD school. Currently working in finance. Have great QoL and make good money, but am unfulfilled.

I have competitive board scores and no red flags from med school (i.e. no red flags prevented me from applying.) I did not submit ERAS my M4 year.

I assume the more competitive specialties will be off-limits, but could I match into something if I applied?

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How difficult is it to match after a substantial gap after graduating (say, 5 years or so)?

I graduated within the past few years from an MD school. Currently working in finance. Have great QoL and make good money, but am unfulfilled.

I have competitive board scores and no red flags from med school (i.e. no red flags prevented me from applying.) I did not submit ERAS my M4 year.

I assume the more competitive specialties will be off-limits, but could I match into something if I applied?

Need an explanation why you did what you did. A good explanation. Being "unfulfilled" in your previous job doesn't lend much. There are program directors here that'll add more to it but you'd not only have to explain but sell that you'd still be able to handle residency.
 
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This will obviously be the topic of your personal statement. I think programs will be open to the story "I thought I'd be happy in finance but now I realize I miss patient interaction". Talking about what's missing in your current career should play well.

The main problem is going to be lack of clinical experience. 5 years is a long time to be out of the clinical arena. If at all possible, you need to get new clinical experience. Doing so is not easy.
 
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This will obviously be the topic of your personal statement. I think programs will be open to the story "I thought I'd be happy in finance but now I realize I miss patient interaction". Talking about what's missing in your current career should play well.

The main problem is going to be lack of clinical experience. 5 years is a long time to be out of the clinical arena. If at all possible, you need to get new clinical experience. Doing so is not easy.
How would someone get clinical experience 5 years out? Is it just a matter of contacting people to shadow?
 
Need an explanation why you did what you did. A good explanation. Being "unfulfilled" in your previous job doesn't lend much. There are program directors here that'll add more to it but you'd not only have to explain but sell that you'd still be able to handle residency.
Fair enough. I understand spinning my story would be the most important piece of an attempted application. The short and honest answer is I have a ton of other interests and ultimately saw the MD as a very broad degree and decided initially to pursue something else - I have a very intellectually stimulating job and use my background every day but ultimately do miss patient interaction.

What do you mean by "handle residency?" As in am I capable of jumping back in after such a long gap and fill in forgotten/new medical information developments? Ability to handle hours?
 
What do you mean by "handle residency?" As in am I capable of jumping back in after such a long gap and fill in forgotten/new medical information developments? Ability to handle hours?
I presume they meant going into residency not having any clinical experience for the past 5 years. You will likely be far behind your peers in terms of efficiency and medical knowledge, and it's your peers to whom you will be compared. No one will care that you haven't practiced medicine in 5 years, but they will care if you can't keep up or have the knowledge base of a MS1. It can potentially be done, especially if you did well on your boards which will show you have the academic ability, but it will take a lot of time, effort, and dedication to get yourself back to the level you were at immediately after graduating.
 
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Fair enough. I understand spinning my story would be the most important piece of an attempted application. The short and honest answer is I have a ton of other interests and ultimately saw the MD as a very broad degree and decided initially to pursue something else - I have a very intellectually stimulating job and use my background every day but ultimately do miss patient interaction.

What do you mean by "handle residency?" As in am I capable of jumping back in after such a long gap and fill in forgotten/new medical information developments? Ability to handle hours?

I wasn't trying to make it to sound like a bad thing. It's just being out of the loop for so long from medicine (5 years is significant). How up to date are you on current guidelines, treatments/diagnosis/etc. There's also the part of handling the work load/stress/long hours, but I'd imagine your work life will probably help with that; having a career means you learn about how to manage your time efficiently, learn how to work with others etc etc so you'll have an advantage with that.

Going back to your question -
I think you can match somewhere in some field. Just realize that some fields will be restricted/have a very competitive residency to get into without this gap. So, apply broadly?
 
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Fair enough. I understand spinning my story would be the most important piece of an attempted application. The short and honest answer is I have a ton of other interests and ultimately saw the MD as a very broad degree and decided initially to pursue something else - I have a very intellectually stimulating job and use my background every day but ultimately do miss patient interaction.

What do you mean by "handle residency?" As in am I capable of jumping back in after such a long gap and fill in forgotten/new medical information developments? Ability to handle hours?

I presume they meant going into residency not having any clinical experience for the past 5 years. You will likely be far behind your peers in terms of efficiency and medical knowledge, and it's your peers to whom you will be compared. No one will care that you haven't practiced medicine in 5 years, but they will care if you can't keep up or have the knowledge base of a MS1. It can potentially be done, especially if you did well on your boards which will show you have the academic ability, but it will take a lot of time, effort, and dedication to get yourself back to the level you were at immediately after graduating.

In addition to general competency, there's probably a reasonable question if the OP can go back to being bottom of the pecking order.

How well will you handle being a scut monkey making peanuts when you've presumably had a successful 6-figure career.
 
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In addition to general competency, there's probably a reasonable question if the OP can go back to being bottom of the pecking order.

How well will you handle being a scut monkey making peanuts when you've presumably had a successful 6-figure career.
No, totally fair point - I've given this some thought but really hard to make a fair judgment a priori.

Encouraging to hear I could at least have a non-zero chance at matching into something, though definitely a decision I need to think about more. But say I decided to apply in the next cycle or two - how would I get LORs? Would I need to do some sort of formal research year or clinical experience? I keep in touch with some of my med school mentors but they're in a competitive specialty I don't have a shot at.
 
OP, did you take Step 3?

If not, you may be coming up on 7 years from Step 1, at which point I believe you may have to take them all over again. Someone correct me if I’m remembering wrong.
 
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OP, did you take Step 3?

If not, you may be coming up on 7 years from Step 1, at which point I believe you may have to take them all over again. Someone correct me if I’m remembering wrong.
No I did not. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you have to actually have started your intern year to take Step 3? I had my app ready to go for residency but had a job offer in hand already so ultimately didn't even submit ERAS.

Jeez I had no idea about the time window for Step 1 score validity so thanks for flagging that. I have no interest in taking that test again, even if it is now P/F haha.
 
No I did not. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you have to actually have started your intern year to take Step 3? I had my app ready to go for residency but had a job offer in hand already so ultimately didn't even submit ERAS.

Jeez I had no idea about the time window for Step 1 score validity so thanks for flagging that. I have no interest in taking that test again, even if it is now P/F haha.

Some people take Step 3 before intern year (not common, but it has happened I think). I took mine in August of my intern year so pretty soon after intern year began. There are multiple threads regarding this. I don't think you need a residency program to approve your application to take it IIRC.

The 7 year rule could definitely be an issue for licensure as indicated on the USMLE FAQ page. If you're not outside the 7 year window yet and want to live/practice in a state that has that requirement, then I would seriously consider trying to take it ASAP (with an intensive study period, of course). This also might help a little (not significantly, but it's better than not having it or basically being unable to get a license due to the 7 year rule) with any future residency application.
 
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I actually have known many people who have taken years away from medicine and gone into Occupational Medicine residency. I think they had all done an intern year beforehand, though.

I think if you manage to get an intern year in something (even a surgical prelim), then you would have a really good shot at Occ Med, especially given your interesting background.
 
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Some people take Step 3 before intern year (not common, but it has happened I think). I took mine in August of my intern year so pretty soon after intern year began. There are multiple threads regarding this. I don't think you need a residency program to approve your application to take it IIRC.

The 7 year rule could definitely be an issue for licensure as indicated on the USMLE FAQ page. If you're not outside the 7 year window yet and want to live/practice in a state that has that requirement, then I would seriously consider trying to take it ASAP (with an intensive study period, of course). This also might help a little (not significantly, but it's better than not having it or basically being unable to get a license due to the 7 year rule) with any future residency application.
Ok got it - I might have been mixing this with getting a license (after Step 3).
 
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No I did not. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you have to actually have started your intern year to take Step 3? I had my app ready to go for residency but had a job offer in hand already so ultimately didn't even submit ERAS.

Jeez I had no idea about the time window for Step 1 score validity so thanks for flagging that. I have no interest in taking that test again, even if it is now P/F haha.
No, you do not… so that 7 year window will be very important… and yes, the step 1and 2 will expire and you will be required to retake.
 
I thought once you pass, you can't retake. 7 years goes by, and, you're (generally) out of luck.

According to the USMLE website linked above in my post, the 7 year rule is only exception that allows you to retake after a passing score, but there's a lot of hoops to jump through to do so (not to mention actually taking Step 1 and 2 again).
 
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It's confusing.

As far as the USMLE is concerned, scores never expire. So if your scores are >7 years old, you can't just apply to take them again.

Instead, you can only retake an exam if a licensing authority requires it. So the OP would need to actually apply for a full license, have a state board of medicine require it, submit that proof to the USMLE, and then they will allow it.

Which makes things complicated for possible residency program application. For a residency, it won't be necessary in most states -- you'll be on a training license and S3 isn't needed for that (and there usually aren't time limits). It's only when the OP applies for a full license somewhere that this problem may happen.

But residency programs may look at the situation and decide that they just don't want to bother -- they don't want a graduate that can't get licensed. Some states require a full license after a number of years, so that may also be a barrier. Other programs may not care at all, and some states may give the OP a license without a retake. And, even more complicated, if the OP gets a license in one state and then later applies to another, it's possible that the second state will waive the time limit requirement.

In all cases, it would be better to get all the steps done in a 7 year window. If at all possible, the OP should do that -- then this whole problem goes away. No residency at all is required for S3.
 
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No I did not. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you have to actually have started your intern year to take Step 3? I had my app ready to go for residency but had a job offer in hand already so ultimately didn't even submit ERAS.

Jeez I had no idea about the time window for Step 1 score validity so thanks for flagging that. I have no interest in taking that test again, even if it is now P/F haha.
Previously you had to register for step 3 through your state, which often meant you needed to complete intern year. Now, however, you just need to have graduated from medical school and be able to prove you are who you say you are.
 
Assuming OP passes step 3, could he expect any interviews to medicine/surgery prelims with no clinical experience in 5 years?

Would it be naive to think that once he’s back in the clinical system (e.g., as a prelim intern) he can even shoot for competitive specialties (if he wants)?
 
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Assuming OP passes step 3, could he expect any interviews to medicine/surgery prelims with no clinical experience in 5 years?

Would it be naive to think that once he’s back in the clinical system (e.g., as a prelim intern) he can even shoot for competitive specialties (if he wants)?
No clinical experience in 5 years is likely to be a problem. Much depends on their prior performance -- if they were a top performer in medical school, esp if that school is one of the better known ones, then someone might be willing to consider it. More likely to end up in a community program, or prelim GS at a mid tier univ program maybe. Good clinical experience would really help. Poor USMLE scores or a poor performance in medical school will be a big problem.

If they get back into an intern year, then they will have some chance at other fields. But they would be unlikely to be terribly successful applying in their intern year, as all they would have done is 2 months of work by then -- hard to get any quality letters in that time frame. Could turn a prelim IM position into a PGY-2 position (these often open up later in the academic year). Turning a prelim GS position into a PGY-2 cat position is always difficult but possible. Or, can apply for the match the next year after completing an internship -- but a gap year is created.
 
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Previously you had to register for step 3 through your state, which often meant you needed to complete intern year. Now, however, you just need to have graduated from medical school and be able to prove you are who you say you are.
Not that it matters anymore, but you had to register for step 3 through *a* state, not *your* state. It's been forever and a day, but I recall people just registering through a random state (I think it might have been Iowa?) that let anyone register even on the day they graduated medical school.
 
Not that it matters anymore, but you had to register for step 3 through *a* state, not *your* state. It's been forever and a day, but I recall people just registering through a random state (I think it might have been Iowa?) that let anyone register even on the day they graduated medical school.
Fair enough.

But yeah, it hasn't been that way since like 2013, maybe? When I graduated in 2014, it wasn't a thing anymore, but I remember hearing residents talking about it when I was a student.
 
No clinical experience in 5 years is likely to be a problem. Much depends on their prior performance -- if they were a top performer in medical school, esp if that school is one of the better known ones, then someone might be willing to consider it. More likely to end up in a community program, or prelim GS at a mid tier univ program maybe. Good clinical experience would really help. Poor USMLE scores or a poor performance in medical school will be a big problem.

If they get back into an intern year, then they will have some chance at other fields. But they would be unlikely to be terribly successful applying in their intern year, as all they would have done is 2 months of work by then -- hard to get any quality letters in that time frame. Could turn a prelim IM position into a PGY-2 position (these often open up later in the academic year). Turning a prelim GS position into a PGY-2 cat position is always difficult but possible. Or, can apply for the match the next year after completing an internship -- but a gap year is created.
Sorry for digging up an old thread, but wanted to get added perspective now that I've taken and passed step 3. FWIW, I'm only a couple of years out, not 5. I had good performance at a well-regarded med school. I was competitive to match into a hyper-competive specialty at good programs (ulimately just didn't hit submit on ERAS, otherwise was all teed up).

What kind of clinical experience would be ideal? I assume this is the only way to get new LORs. After that, would I just take a shotgun approach to all IM/GS prelim programs and hope for the best?

I would love to make this work but ultimately I think the downside risk here is way too high.
 
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Honestly, there isn't any downside risk other than the ERAS app fees, which if you have a job in finance probably isn't a barrier.

If you were a competitive US candidate, I expect you'll do fine. Some programs may see your finance experience as a real plus.

What you should try to do is get some new clinical experience if possible. Even if it's just shadowing, it's better than nothing.

You started the thread by saying you were 5 years out. If you're only 2 years out, it's a whole different ball game -- programs will be less concerned about that.

Reconnecting with prior mentors is a good start. See if there's any way to get some clinical experience with them, you'll likely want LORs from them again. if not, look for volunteer activity.
 
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Honestly, there isn't any downside risk other than the ERAS app fees, which if you have a job in finance probably isn't a barrier.

If you were a competitive US candidate, I expect you'll do fine. Some programs may see your finance experience as a real plus.

What you should try to do is get some new clinical experience if possible. Even if it's just shadowing, it's better than nothing.

You started the thread by saying you were 5 years out. If you're only 2 years out, it's a whole different ball game -- programs will be less concerned about that.

Reconnecting with prior mentors is a good start. See if there's any way to get some clinical experience with them, you'll likely want LORs from them again. if not, look for volunteer activity.
Got it, thanks. I was assuming I would need completely drop everything, quit my job, etc. for FT clinical experience.

And yes, I'm closer to 2 years out than 5. Was just trying to be vague initially I guess.
 
You don't need to quit your job. Ideally, you'd want to find both some longitudinal experience -- an evening or weekend volunteer clinic might work. Then, it would be great if you could take a 2 week vacation / LOA and do something full time. The problem is going to be making any of that happen. You're no longer a student, and you're "not really" a doctor. You may be able to find someone with a private office willing to host you, but best would be some sort of clinical experience in a teaching setting, alongside residents or students.

If you still have contacts at your medical school, try to leverage those. If you have any medical contacts via your current employment, then try to use those. Friends, colleagues, etc. It's definitely a "whom you know" process, especially with all the COVID restrictions which are often still in place for random stuff like this.
 
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It's confusing.

As far as the USMLE is concerned, scores never expire. So if your scores are >7 years old, you can't just apply to take them again.

Instead, you can only retake an exam if a licensing authority requires it. So the OP would need to actually apply for a full license, have a state board of medicine require it, submit that proof to the USMLE, and then they will allow it.

Which makes things complicated for possible residency program application. For a residency, it won't be necessary in most states -- you'll be on a training license and S3 isn't needed for that (and there usually aren't time limits). It's only when the OP applies for a full license somewhere that this problem may happen.

But residency programs may look at the situation and decide that they just don't want to bother -- they don't want a graduate that can't get licensed. Some states require a full license after a number of years, so that may also be a barrier. Other programs may not care at all, and some states may give the OP a license without a retake. And, even more complicated, if the OP gets a license in one state and then later applies to another, it's possible that the second state will waive the time limit requirement.

In all cases, it would be better to get all the steps done in a 7 year window. If at all possible, the OP should do that -- then this whole problem goes away. No residency at all is required for S3.
Never mind the fact that if OP applies for a full license (or potentially even a training license), the state medical board will likely ask him to explain a 5 year gap and may themselves impose some sort of additional “reintegration” training just to give him a license.

EDIT: just saw that the gap is more like 2 years…as stated above, that’s a different story altogether and probably something a lot easier to pull off.
 
Two years isn’t a big deal. Quite similar to people who spend a year backpacking Europe after college. Just a little gap to “find yourself” before spending the rest of your life in medicine. Makes you more interesting in some ways.
 
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2 years gap in your practice and good luck getting hospital privileges. But work 1 day.. and you're good. A silly, silly rule. But there it is.
 
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How difficult is it to match after a substantial gap after graduating (say, 5 years or so)?

I graduated within the past few years from an MD school. Currently working in finance. Have great QoL and make good money, but am unfulfilled.

I have competitive board scores and no red flags from med school (i.e. no red flags prevented me from applying.) I did not submit ERAS my M4 year.

I assume the more competitive specialties will be off-limits, but could I match into something if I applied?

Two prerequisites you'll need are ensuring your Step exams don't expire and if they do, you'll need to retake 1/CK or take Step 3 before they do. Second, you'll need some recent clinical experience and the best way to do that is by contacting your medical school or finding a contact who will let you do a clinical observership.

I'll spend the rest of my post giving you application/interview advice. Just to preface this, I do think you can if you apply strategically. That said, you are fighting against the grain. The analogy I would use is a seasoned shopper at the mart being a PD. PDs/selection committees have tons of experience with which traditional applicants getting the job done in their program and graduating just like shoppers know which ingredients/brands make the dishes they prepare. Why would they deviate from that formula to choose some untested alternative brand? Unlike recruitment in business and sports, residencies don't inherently compete against each other so there's no pressure for them to change their practices, innovate, or take risks. The answer is either the supply of the brand they usually pick from is out or in short supply. You may very have acquired irreplaceable skills that will translate perfectly to medicine and you may truly exceptional physician but how exactly does the PD know that and also, does a benefit of recruiting an exceptional performer really outweigh the chance that that person may be a bad performer? Anyhow, that's what your fighting against.

What you have to do is tilt the process in your favor. You've already ID'ed #1.
1.) Don't apply to fields with a surplus of applicants who are all qualified.
2,) Figure out if doing this for the rest of your life is what you want. You already had a lack of fulfillment in your prior area. PDs will want to know what the reason for changing is. The best answers will be the simplest/tangible ones. Limit abstract ideas, concepts when stating this in essays/interviews.
3.) Tone down the things that make you different in your application. While it may appear to you to be your greatest strength, that's not always what PDs want. Find out ways to emphasize how you're equivalent to their other applicants. Emphasize how your board scores are safely above average (speaking of which, mind the expiration dates on some of these experience). When given the chance, talk about your clinical experiences even if they're not exactly the traditional rotations you are now far removed from them. If interviewers question your experience, remain composed. They invited you to an interview so they should have known before what they were dealing with.
4.) PDs have come to be leery of slow/difficult learners and thus use age or time out of medicine as surrogates of that. In your application, emphasize how you're an efficient and easy person to work with. Industry experience does have a good reputation and emphasize it to speak to how you get along amicably with everyone. Demonstrate that you're still someone that is reflective and takes feedback well because the unspoken assumption is that you may not be.
5.) Lead proactively with an overview of #1-4. All interviewers will ask you about the gap. You may as well speak about it off the bat, on your terms, and let them ask questions if needed. Then spend the rest of your interview highlighting what you want to highlight.

Best of luck! You should be able to find some spot if you apply broadly.
 
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Got it, thanks. I was assuming I would need completely drop everything, quit my job, etc. for FT clinical experience.

And yes, I'm closer to 2 years out than 5. Was just trying to be vague initially I guess.

How will you be financially in a Family/IM type of position vs your current role? Those are 200-250 ish. Is your finance role close to that or would be that in the next 3-4 years?

I was very close to leaving medicine and even took a year off after graduating and didn't submit eras. Considered dental school but man that would have been a failure financially looking at it now and considered an MBA.

Would you get fulfillment by volunteering in a private office, wknds, at free clinics?
 
How will you be financially in a Family/IM type of position vs your current role? Those are 200-250 ish. Is your finance role close to that or would be that in the next 3-4 years?

I was very close to leaving medicine and even took a year off after graduating and didn't submit eras. Considered dental school but man that would have been a failure financially looking at it now and considered an MBA.

Would you get fulfillment by volunteering in a private office, wknds, at free clinics?

I am north of that range already. Financially, going back wouldn't make sense. I have room for a lot of career growth yet and will make significantly more, both in the short-term and long-term, if I stay put. But the pay differential doesn't bother me and isn't really a factor. I wasn't necessarily gunning for the ivory towers in medicine but I am fairly career-oriented, so what holds me back is acknowledging that I will likely be in a worse spot, career-wise, if I try to go back for a residency compared to both where I am now and where I would have been if I had gone straight through from M4 year.

Did you go back for residency after your year off, and what are you in now?
 
I am north of that range already. Financially, going back wouldn't make sense. I have room for a lot of career growth yet and will make significantly more, both in the short-term and long-term, if I stay put. But the pay differential doesn't bother me and isn't really a factor. I wasn't necessarily gunning for the ivory towers in medicine but I am fairly career-oriented, so what holds me back is acknowledging that I will likely be in a worse spot, career-wise, if I try to go back for a residency compared to both where I am now and where I would have been if I had gone straight through from M4 year.

Did you go back for residency after your year off, and what are you in now?

1.I went back and am 7 years in as an attending in psych. Hands down was the right move for me but i didnt have a 250k+ offer at this inflection point to complicate it.

2. Answer these 2 questions:
A) If u knew you'd match in a road specialty would you be 100% ready to jump ship?

B) 1-2 years into residency you realize working 80 hours kinda blows. Would you be able to jump back into your current position/salary range?
 
1.I went back and am 7 years in as an attending in psych. Hands down was the right move for me but i didnt have a 250k+ offer at this inflection point to complicate it.

2. Answer these 2 questions:
A) If u knew you'd match in a road specialty would you be 100% ready to jump ship?

B) 1-2 years into residency you realize working 80 hours kinda blows. Would you be able to jump back into your current position/salary range?
What? I’ve read your last two posts and I’m quite confused.

- FM/IM are by no means limited to “$200-250k”. Many PCPs are nowadays making $300-400k once established, and the IM subspecialties can be much higher than that also. My starting salary at my current rheumatology job is $325k, and the salary is likely to go up significantly from there.

- Bailing out of IM/FM residency two years in because “working 80 hours a week blows” is immature and ridiculous. Most high paying finance jobs don’t exactly have a cush lifestyle, and once you’re out of residency/fellowship, you often won’t be working 80 hours a week.

- What does matching ROAD specialties have to do with anything? With a 2+ year gap, OP probably isn’t going to be matching those specialties, and even if he could, not everyone wants those specialties and they’re not always what they’re cracked up to be…

When I was in medical school, someone in my class basically did what OP describes. She was in consulting before medical school and apparently was making good money. She finished the first two years of medical school, decided she didn’t want to do medicine, and went back to consulting. She did that for a year, and then came back and begged them to let her back in. They did, and she finished medical school and is now a pediatrician. She seems to be happy with it.
 
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What? I’ve read your last two posts and I’m quite confused.

- FM/IM are by no means limited to “$200-250k”. Many PCPs are nowadays making $300-400k once established, and the IM subspecialties can be much higher than that also. My starting salary at my current rheumatology job is $325k, and the salary is likely to go up significantly from there.

- Bailing out of IM/FM residency two years in because “working 80 hours a week blows” is immature and ridiculous. Most high paying finance jobs don’t exactly have a cush lifestyle, and once you’re out of residency/fellowship, you often won’t be working 80 hours a week.

- What does matching ROAD specialties have to do with anything? With a 2+ year gap, OP probably isn’t going to be matching those specialties, and even if he could, not everyone wants those specialties and they’re not always what they’re cracked up to be…

When I was in medical school, someone in my class basically did what OP describes. She was in consulting before medical school and apparently was making good money. She finished the first two years of medical school, decided she didn’t want to do medicine, and went back to consulting. She did that for a year, and then came back and begged them to let her back in. They did, and she finished medical school and is now a pediatrician. She seems to be happy with it.
I was using the 2021 mgma data and median salary for pure IM/FM outpatient is 250k +/- 10k. Hospitalist IM/FM is about 300k +/- 20k
Yes, these will also increase over time so that is just the initial range.

Regardless, if OP is making this already from a financial standpoint it makes zero sense unless he got into a road specialty. Anes/Rads are 500k median starting if not more right now for a 40 ish hour work week with 8 wks vaca on the low end. You will have to do your share of nights, wknds, and some holidays though.
 
What? I’ve read your last two posts and I’m quite confused.

- FM/IM are by no means limited to “$200-250k”. Many PCPs are nowadays making $300-400k once established, and the IM subspecialties can be much higher than that also. My starting salary at my current rheumatology job is $325k, and the salary is likely to go up significantly from there.

- Bailing out of IM/FM residency two years in because “working 80 hours a week blows” is immature and ridiculous. Most high paying finance jobs don’t exactly have a cush lifestyle, and once you’re out of residency/fellowship, you often won’t be working 80 hours a week.

- What does matching ROAD specialties have to do with anything? With a 2+ year gap, OP probably isn’t going to be matching those specialties, and even if he could, not everyone wants those specialties and they’re not always what they’re cracked up to be…

When I was in medical school, someone in my class basically did what OP describes. She was in consulting before medical school and apparently was making good money. She finished the first two years of medical school, decided she didn’t want to do medicine, and went back to consulting. She did that for a year, and then came back and begged them to let her back in. They did, and she finished medical school and is now a pediatrician. She seems to be happy with it.
I don't know any FM docs making 400K/year unless they also own the building, lab, or MRI. That is very uncommon so shouldn't be presented to the OP as an easy reach.
 
Yeah, you're gonna have to set up shop in the middle of nowhere and grow it up...

Mr Mackey Ok GIF by South Park
 
I don't know any FM docs making 400K/year unless they also own the building, lab, or MRI. That is very uncommon so shouldn't be presented to the OP as an easy reach.
Where are you located? If it is a big city, i understand, but if you're in a medium or smaller sized city, you can definitely hit 400k
 
I was using the 2021 mgma data and median salary for pure IM/FM outpatient is 250k +/- 10k. Hospitalist IM/FM is about 300k +/- 20k
Yes, these will also increase over time so that is just the initial range.

Regardless, if OP is making this already from a financial standpoint it makes zero sense unless he got into a road specialty. Anes/Rads are 500k median starting if not more right now for a 40 ish hour work week with 8 wks vaca on the low end. You will have to do your share of nights, wknds, and some holidays though.
Market is extremely good now. Made 405k last year working on average 17.5 days/month. I don't consider my job demanding.
 
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Market in extremely good now. Made 405k last year working on average 17.5 days/month. I don't consider my job demanding.
I will guess you are working outside of a top 15-20 city more than likely in population?
 
Two prerequisites you'll need are ensuring your Step exams don't expire and if they do, you'll need to retake 1/CK or take Step 3 before they do. Second, you'll need some recent clinical experience and the best way to do that is by contacting your medical school or finding a contact who will let you do a clinical observership.

I'll spend the rest of my post giving you application/interview advice. Just to preface this, I do think you can if you apply strategically. That said, you are fighting against the grain. The analogy I would use is a seasoned shopper at the mart being a PD. PDs/selection committees have tons of experience with which traditional applicants getting the job done in their program and graduating just like shoppers know which ingredients/brands make the dishes they prepare. Why would they deviate from that formula to choose some untested alternative brand? Unlike recruitment in business and sports, residencies don't inherently compete against each other so there's no pressure for them to change their practices, innovate, or take risks. The answer is either the supply of the brand they usually pick from is out or in short supply. You may very have acquired irreplaceable skills that will translate perfectly to medicine and you may truly exceptional physician but how exactly does the PD know that and also, does a benefit of recruiting an exceptional performer really outweigh the chance that that person may be a bad performer? Anyhow, that's what your fighting against.

What you have to do is tilt the process in your favor. You've already ID'ed #1.
1.) Don't apply to fields with a surplus of applicants who are all qualified.
2,) Figure out if doing this for the rest of your life is what you want. You already had a lack of fulfillment in your prior area. PDs will want to know what the reason for changing is. The best answers will be the simplest/tangible ones. Limit abstract ideas, concepts when stating this in essays/interviews.
3.) Tone down the things that make you different in your application. While it may appear to you to be your greatest strength, that's not always what PDs want. Find out ways to emphasize how you're equivalent to their other applicants. Emphasize how your board scores are safely above average (speaking of which, mind the expiration dates on some of these experience). When given the chance, talk about your clinical experiences even if they're not exactly the traditional rotations you are now far removed from them. If interviewers question your experience, remain composed. They invited you to an interview so they should have known before what they were dealing with.
4.) PDs have come to be leery of slow/difficult learners and thus use age or time out of medicine as surrogates of that. In your application, emphasize how you're an efficient and easy person to work with. Industry experience does have a good reputation and emphasize it to speak to how you get along amicably with everyone. Demonstrate that you're still someone that is reflective and takes feedback well because the unspoken assumption is that you may not be.
5.) Lead proactively with an overview of #1-4. All interviewers will ask you about the gap. You may as well speak about it off the bat, on your terms, and let them ask questions if needed. Then spend the rest of your interview highlighting what you want to highlight.

Best of luck! You should be able to find some spot if you apply broadly.
I really appreciate the thoughtful answer.

As a follow-up -- any thoughts on how to increase my chances of getting my physical application picked up in the first place? If I'm applying to say, IM and FM, how would I not only explain my gap but also that my med school CV screams surgical sub applicant (research, clubs, away rotations, etc.). Should I leave things like research off, or at least be selective?

I have less concern being able to explain my current employment in an interview -- I have a reasonably good story to tell, many people even in medicine will have at least heard of where I work (even if they have no idea what I do there), etc.
 
If all you have is a 2 year gap and otherwise have a solid app, I think you'll get interviews. Your PS will tell your story - including the shift from the surgical sub. You'll be a relatively unique applicant.
 
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I was using the 2021 mgma data and median salary for pure IM/FM outpatient is 250k +/- 10k. Hospitalist IM/FM is about 300k +/- 20k
Yes, these will also increase over time so that is just the initial range.

Regardless, if OP is making this already from a financial standpoint it makes zero sense unless he got into a road specialty. Anes/Rads are 500k median starting if not more right now for a 40 ish hour work week with 8 wks vaca on the low end. You will have to do your share of nights, wknds, and some holidays though.

I don't think "500k median" is an accurate measure particularly for starting. Maybe mid career, certainly not starting
 
OP, did you take Step 3?

If not, you may be coming up on 7 years from Step 1, at which point I believe you may have to take them all over again. Someone correct me if I’m remembering wrong.

This is not entirely accurate - yes there is a 7 year limit for a number of states (not all) but can certainly get a waiver in the vast majority of them (except GA is my understanding). I got a waiver- I had an advanced degree that I got, changed residencies, etc so took longer than 7 years, had no issue getting a waiver
 
This is not entirely accurate - yes there is a 7 year limit for a number of states (not all) but can certainly get a waiver in the vast majority of them (except GA is my understanding). I got a waiver- I had an advanced degree that I got, changed residencies, etc so took longer than 7 years, had no issue getting a waiver
Good to know. I took step 3 earlier in the year so no longer an issue.

Did you have time away from medicine between your residencies or go straight from one to the other?
 
Good to know. I took step 3 earlier in the year so no longer an issue.

Did you have time away from medicine between your residencies or go straight from one to the other?
I had a bit of time (year plus) - for me it wasn’t an issue. But honestly I think if you have a good salary as it seems you do and good quality of life I’d stay where you are
 
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