Advice on Away Rotations and LOR

[Repdsesstuinas]

Hey - I am a third year applying from a school which does not have an otolaryngology department. We do have a division of otolaryngology in the dept of surgery that is run by a fairly well known ENT who is now retired from surgery. I was wondering a few things related to applying to ENT programs from my background:

1. How many away rotations should I do? I will get a LOR from the division chair because I know him well and he is fairly well known but do I need to do two away rotations to get two other LOR from department chairs? Can I get a LOR from another ENT in the community? I have done research with the program director for my school's plastic surgery program, would a letter from him not be as good as a LOR from an ENT? If given the choice I would prefer not do two aways.

2. How late is too late to do an away and get a LOR in time? I was planning on an away in Sept and Oct but I didn't know if that meant my LOR would get in too late.

Thanks for any advice.

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[gstrub]

Hey - I am a third year applying from a school which does not have an otolaryngology department. We do have a division of otolaryngology in the dept of surgery that is run by a fairly well known ENT who is now retired from surgery. I was wondering a few things related to applying to ENT programs from my background:

1. How many away rotations should I do? I will get a LOR from the division chair because I know him well and he is fairly well known but do I need to do two away rotations to get two other LOR from department chairs? Can I get a LOR from another ENT in the community? I have done research with the program director for my school's plastic surgery program, would a letter from him not be as good as a LOR from an ENT? If given the choice I would prefer not do two aways.

2. How late is too late to do an away and get a LOR in time? I was planning on an away in Sept and Oct but I didn't know if that meant my LOR would get in too late.

Thanks for any advice.

I would do 2 aways if I were you, and I would do them earlier, as in August/September. This is so letters will arrive on time (even September is pushing it unless your LOR writer is on top of it right away).

What I did was move a 4 week 3rd year rotation into M4 and did my AI at my home program. This ensured I would have 3 ENT letters by 9/1 when ERAS went out, so that my application would be complete and be reviewed (actually one was from my PhD advisor). Then I did an away in September and got a letter from the chair, which I had submitted by 10/1 and it made it into my file and helped I am certain. My second away was in October...I did not ask for a letter as I already had 4 and it would have been too late anyhow.

As for other letters, it cannot hurt you to have them written in the case that you need another one for your file. Do you have someone in your deans office that will read letters and tell you which are the best ones? If so, go ahead and get as many letters as you can from people comfortable with writing them from you, and submit the best 4 you have.

I ran into several people on my aways in the same boat as you...they were all doing two early aways and trying to get at least one LOR out of it. It is doable!
Good luck,
G

 

[blackpager]

What is "on time" for a LOR? Is that 9/1 when you can submit apps, 10/1, or 11/1 when the Dean's letter goes out?

ENT seems to interview later than most specialties so do they also download your app later?

And is the LOR mostly used to decide who to interview, or after the interview to decide how to rank interviewees?

 

[ZagDoc]

What is "on time" for a LOR? Is that 9/1 when you can submit apps, 10/1, or 11/1 when the Dean's letter goes out?

ENT seems to interview later than most specialties so do they also download your app later?

And is the LOR mostly used to decide who to interview, or after the interview to decide how to rank interviewees?

Most programs didn't d/l my app until after the dean's letter up, but that was the general trend not the rule. I would say if you can have all your letters up by early october, you're golden.

 

[gstrub]

Most programs didn't d/l my app until after the dean's letter up, but that was the general trend not the rule. I would say if you can have all your letters up by early october, you're golden.

Really? I can only think of a handful of programs that waited until after 11/1 to download my app. At least a dozen did it the 1st week of September...most were between 9/20-10/15. I guess we applied to a different batch of programs.

Anyway, getting an away letter in late October will help you when it comes time to the interview and ranking, but if you want the letter to actually help you obtain an interview, I would shoot for earlier. I only say this because I did receive several interview offers in September and early October, so they were reviewing my application already. Also, remember that most places require 3 letters for a "complete" application, meaning they will likely not review you app until you have 3, so I would plan on submitting 3 on 9/1 if at all possible, with the away LOR coming in at #4 closer to 10/1. If you can't meet that schedule I am sure it's not the end of the world, but if you're aiming to maximize the benefit of an away LOR it's what I would shoot for.
Good luck!

 

[neutropeniaboy]

I know away rotations are a necessary evil, and I know I'll just end up looking like a curmudgeon again...but,

don't do them.

In my experience, 90+% of students doing away rotations just end up making themselves look bad.

It is my observation that students who rotate tend to look bad because they don't work very hard to support the residents, they are not "there first and leave last," they are not prepared well enough for the OR, they don't know anatomy, they don't take call, and generally speaking don't balance annoying and helpful very well.

So, if that's not you, do 2 away rotations.

Letters from chairs are not always helpful. Students always think they are, but unless you spend any appreciable time with one of them, these letters are always one paragraph long and most of that paragraph rehashes your Step scores, your grades, your AOA status, one sentence about how the residents and/or other attendings perceived you, and that they recommend you for residency.

I'm sorry...that's the way it is.

 

[arb011]

So I want to do at least 1 away rotation. Unfortunately for me I can only do 3 months of electives. I guess I don't completely understand the process of doing an away. Do most people get the aways they apply for? And if you apply for multiple away rotations and more than one accepts you, does it look really bad if you don't end up going to one?

 

[Repdsesstuinas]

So, I ended up deciding to do only one away rotation. As I said in the first post my school does not have a residency. I am doing a month long elective in August at my school and then an away at U. Cincinnati in September and hoping that I can get one LOR from my home school's division chief for the dept of otolaryngology and two LOR from my month at U.C.

I decided to not do an away in August b/c we found out my wife is pregnant and due the last week in August. I did well on boards (>260) and am waiting to hear about AOA any day now and am hoping that it will be enough to get it with only doing one away. I am sure my LORs will not be as good as other applicants but it is the best I can do in the circumstance.