Advice for potential re-app to just MD vs MD/PhD for an international

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Hi, I applied to MD/PhD programs this cycle but as an international or for other reasons, I only received a few interviews during this cycle, one of which has turned into a WL, one which I think will head the same way. So, I am contemplating applying again the next cycle for just MD; I will find a way to scrape together the money and if I can do research later in my career, so be it.

Anyway, info:
T5 undergrad, 521 MCAT, 3.75 c/3.65sGPA. At time of application probably 4.5k+ hours of research, 1 middle author publication, shooting for another 1st author paper w/ my gap year fellowship. At present, I have 20 hours of shadowing (two specialities) but will aim to increase that to 50, with emphasis on primary care. I have 40 clinical hours and plan to raise that to ~300 over the next 6 months, and around the same with nonclinical. Some clubs/societies in undergrad, as well as some research awards/university designations. My green card should come within the next 3 years, but I'm not holding my breath. For my gap year, I will try to get a job in a clinical or service setting, i.e. clinical research or something similar.

Any thoughts/advice etc.? Thanks.

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[Naruhodo]

It sounds like you have a good plan (especially great that you're adding more volunteer hours and primary care shadowing). I'd lean towards the service setting job, but honestly you should do whatever speaks most to you/ works out for your situation. Many in my class worked as scribes before med school and that experience seems to have served them well.

I know how tough it can be to give up on the idea of MD/PhD programs (and depending on how your app is looking by your next cycle you may not have to, but probably a mix including more MD only is a good idea) but if you are passionate about research there will be opportunities. You could always get a PhD after if you really want/need it, and research years in med school and/or residency are increasingly common. I know of at least one person who started off as an MD only student and managed to apply and be accepted into the school's MD/PhD program during the first year (sometimes there are extra spots and/or people who drop out of the PhD). Give it your all and I wish you the best of luck!

 

[prw0011]

keep ur head up u jabroni. dont lemme hear u talk this bad talk about yourself ever again or ill fight u. it sounds like ur on the right track for success dont be a debbie mcdowner. reapplying isnt the end of the world--but i believe in ur sucess this cycle--swear on me mums grave

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Thanks for the feedback and encouragement @Naruhodo ! I really appreciate it. Do you think that my hours goals would be sufficient for an MD app? That’s my main concern, I want to come off as sincere.
And honestly, my thinking with research is that every time I shadow or have otherwise interacted with patients, I’ve always been struck by the amount of stuff medicine doesn’t really have answers for. There have been huge advances but there’s just so much that we don’t know and that affects our ability to come up with better therapeutic strategies and treatments. Altogether, I am drawn to serving others/humanity and I think medicine and the opportunities for interpersonal service it provides would be engaging but I want to help drive the field forward as well. I’m not sure if an MD/PhD is the only route to that, but I want to work towards that aim.

 

[Naruhodo]

You can always start a WAMC thread if you'd like input from a number of folks, but yes I think 50 hours shadowing with the majority in primary care would leave you in good shape on that front. In terms of volunteering, the more the better, but if you can top 200 hours both in clinical and non-clinical volunteering I think that it will be clear you are making a serious effort. The best way to come off as sincere is to find causes you really do care about and throw yourself into them (of course, to the extent you can while working, taking care of yourself, etc.)
It is true that there are still many answers lacking in medicine, but there are people with all kinds of backgrounds driving their fields forward in various ways. Personally, I think you have to look at what makes you tick (do you love being at the bench? do you want to build things? do you enjoy getting lost in a pile of data?). There's still time in this cycle so you may yet have the outcome you're hoping for, but it never hurts to think to reflect on what kind of day-to-day work would be fulfilling to you.

 

[gyngyn]

I would expect a much better outcome for regular MD as an international.

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

Thank you again for your thoughts @Naruhodo ! The questions that you pose are insightful. I dunno how much I adore bench, bench research. The more novel the topic, the harder it gets, and I have less than fond memories of doing 5 day experiments that culminated with the tissue melting in the microwave during antigen retrieval. This year, I will be really testing how good I can get at data analysis. I think it's an exciting field, and the idea of reading papers and trying to understand what the information is telling me appeals to me. Ultimately, while I think understanding the mechanisms behind diseases is very exciting, I am not sure whether it will sustain a career. I think being able to do more translational work would be very meaningful. I appreciate the feedback on the hours; I went ahead and made the WAMC thread, but having tangible goals I think will help motivate me.

Thank you, also @gyngyn for your vote of confidence. At one of my interviews, I was told by the PD that my citizenship was my greatest impediment, and I just cried for two days after.

 

[deleted480308]

What was your school list? I feel like something is missing from the story

 

[ExcitatorySynapse]

I was restricted by the limited no. of schools that actually entertain international applicants.
I don’t remember the exact list but it was something like:
Harvard, Columbia, Penn, washu, Yale, Uchicago, suny upstate, Vanderbilt, medical college of Wisconsin, UTHSC-SA, tri-I, UVA, UMN, Northwestern, Einstein, Virginia commonwealth, penn state, u Maryland, Dartmouth, Emory, Boston university, McGill, uconn, utsw, Baylor, and I can’t remember the others immediately, but there were a few more.
I missed out on applying to NYMC, TJ, and Tulane.
If I am to re-apply, I will probably add them, since I know they’ve interviewed internationals this cycle, and drop those that only seem to nominally consider international students (Yale).