Advice for a 3rd year interested in psych

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

lu2003

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
28
Reaction score
0
HI, everyone,
I see that interviews are flying! Congrats everyone....:clap:
For you guys going through the process, can you guys give advice/feedback to those who will follow in your footsteps?
i.e. grades, when to take Step 2, research, recommendation letters.
I know that for the most part, psych residencies aren't that hard to get into, but for the really competitive ones, what do you think would help?
Thanks for any information in advance.
Also, I would love to hear any feedback about the schools that you start interviewing at.

Thanks again!

Members don't see this ad.
 
Anyone? Any advice at all?
 
Hi there,

I've been thinking about responding to your thread, though in many ways, I don't feel qualified to say what works and what doesn't since I'm very new at the process (haven't received or attended many interviews or matched). I'm assuming this goes for many of the other posters on this board as well.

So probably the best people to ask these questions to are the program director at your school and residents in your own psychiatry department who have already been through the process.

Also, as other posters have commented, psychiatry programs are quite different in terms of focus (as opposed to medicine or surgery programs). So the programs that you will be interested in will differ depending on whether you are interested in psychotherapy, psychosomatics (consult-liaison), community psychiatry, neurobiology... as programs can vary widely in their opportunities for exposure to the above.

That said, here's my two cents on what I've learned so far:

1. It seems that overall solid grades (especially in psychiatry, medicine, neurology) and solid board scores are helpful, but not as mandatory as in some specialties.

2. You need at least three rec letters (at some places, four) for most programs. For the programs that require four letters, they ask for two psych and two non-psych.

3. Research - it would make sense that at the research-focused programs, that people who have done substantial research have an advantage. However, at the few programs I've seen, the residents don't seem to have time to do much research in residency, until maybe the fourth year.

4. It seems particularly important to do psychiatry residency where you want to practice, as much of your referral base comes from the people you work with during residency.

Hope this helps, and good luck.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Hi lu2003,

I do also feel unsure since I am only in the beginning of the application process. In agreement with willow's post above, I've been told that grades and exam scores are much less important in psych than in other specialties. And though research probably helps if that's the direction you're headed, it doesn't seem to be necessary the way it is for some other specialties.

The most important thing--again echoing the last post-- would be to do whatever you need to do to figure out what within psych interests you most, then research which programs are strongest in that area. For me, I'm very interested in psychodynamic psychotherapy, so that influences my choices a lot, since many programs don't emphasize this. And though I want to be thoroughly competent as a psychopharmacologist, I don't particularly care to be at a place that is a biopsychiatry research mecca. For someone with the inverse preferences, their list would look VERY different from mine.

I don't know if that helps...
GD
 
Thanks so much doc_gmd and willow212!
It's not so much advice per se that I was looking for, just people to talk to who are also interested in psych. I too would be interested in the psychotherapeutic aspect of the field, rather than pharm aspects. I would love to hear from you doc_gmd about what you think of the different programs.
Currently, I am thinking that I'll try to do an elective or 2 in my 4th year in pscyh research.
I've tried contacting my pscy pd, but he hasn't replied to my email. I will just ask the residents when I do my psych rotation, which I haven't even done yet! So I guess I know what everyone will say to that, but I will see if I like the actual rotation.
Anyway, thanks again for replying to my post, and good look in all your interviews!:clap:
 
Lu2003 , this is the busy season for program directors so it might take a while for you to get in touch with him. If you don't have much success catching him/her in the next few weeks, you might want to try again after the match. Even if you do schedule for senior year before that, most schools let you retain some flexibility in rearranging it at a later time.
 
I'm in a kind of unusual position, because I came to med school much later than most people (age 33), already knew I wanted to do psychiatry, and already knew where I wanted to end up (NYC). Lucky for me, the NYC programs, especially Columbia and Cornell, but NYU too, are among the strongest in psychodynamic training.

Other than NY programs I'm only applying to my own school (U Penn). I didn't even look into any other programs because I'm so NY-centric (and they happen to have several excellent programs right there). So I can't be much help about anything outside of NY and Philly, though through the grapevine I've heard a little about CA and Boston.

I spent the month of September doing an elective rotation at Columbia on their Schizophrenia Research Unit. I'd definitely recommend fitting in an away elective in your 4th year if you can manage it. It's not necessary, but it's great to get a day-to-day sense of a place you're interested in.

I hope you like your psychiatry rotation! When will you do it?
 
Doc_gmd - I'm actually really considering a move to NYC for residency (because of personal reasons). How was your experience doing a research elective? Do you think it helps your chances at that specific school?
Some people I have talked to have told me not to base my decision to go/not go into psych solely based on the actual rotation. They mentioned that oftentimes real-life practices will not be the same as psychiatry in a tertiary medical center. I've been talking with one private practice psychiatrist who has told me a little bit about her practic, which sounds great!
I will be doing my rotation early next year, after I finish medicine.
Good talking to all of you on this thread~!:)
 
My rotation at Columbia was actually a clinical rotation, on a research unit. Which means that all the patients on that unit are participating in research protocols--though there was some discussion of the research that was going on, I didn't particpate in any research activities, I was part of the clinical team. There were, however, some 4th years visiting Columbia who *were* doing real research rotations. I didn't talk to them much about it, though.

It is certainly true that inpatient psychiatry bears little resemblence to what outpatient psychiatrists do, so unless you see yourself strictly working in an inpatient setting the rotation will not be representative of what it's like to practice. It's tough, because outpatient psychotherapy is just not the kind of thing you can have students sitting in on for a few weeks or whatever, so lots of students don't get much of a sense of what it's all about. I guess I'd recommend talking to outpatient docs, and reading-- for example Irvin Yalom, Peter Kramer, Stephen Mitchell and Fred Pine are all analysts or analytically-oriented therapists who've written books that give a good feel of what the work of long-term therapy is like.

I was fortunate enough to actually go through a full psychoanalysis myself, and I personally think everyone who intends to practice psychotherapy should undergo therapy. You're required to if you train as an analyst but otherwise not (though it's often encouraged).
 
Did they give you housing at COlumbia when you did the rotation?
On the same line, which 4th year elective in psych have all of you done/enjoyed/recommend?

THanks!
 
Like everyone else, I'm not sure how much definitive advice I can provide seeing as I'm still in the middle of the process, but I can relay what various advisor-types have told me and what my experience has been.

About grades, Step II, research, recommendation letters: As stated earlier, psych probably tends to be less focused on board scores than other specialties. My school's program director told us that the dean's letter and 3rd-year clerkship evaluations matter much more than board scores (and the 3rd-year psych clerkship evaluation matters more than the 4th-year sub-I, in fact). As for grades, well, obviously being AOA helps, but it's not necessary as it would be for, say, derm. As willow212 said, you should get four recommendation letters -- no more than two from psych, at least one from something as close to medicine as possible (primary care, peds, neurology would all be good), your last one from something else of your choice (as long as it's not psych) -- a research advisor, another medicine person, someone in a less-related rotation who would have extremely positive things to say about you. In terms of research, I have to admit I'm not a research-oriented person, and I don't think I could convincingly fake an interest in a research-only career, so it wasn't even worth trying for me. I've been told that while research is nice, you shouldn't force yourself to do it if you don't want to. And you can get publications without doing research -- look into case reports and writing for student journals.

I can't really say what would help you with the most competitive programs, other than an overall solid record. I don't think there's any single thing that will sell you to a program. I do think a good performance on an away rotation can help (and it'll also give you a sense of how psychiatry is practiced outside of your medical school), but don't forget that an away rotation can just as easily hurt as it can help. Also, other schools may think you're less interested in them if you don't choose their school for your away rotation.

As for good electives....well, I've done inpatient and C/L electives. I think the inpatient rotation is important because it really gives you an intensive exposure to treating the whole person, and it condenses it into a time frame that's likely to fit within a rotation. While an outpatient elective might be more realistic, you won't see an individual as often, so you may not get as good a sense of the treatment course of any single person. Otherwise, I suppose it makes the most sense to choose other electives based on what interests you the most; I don't think your choice would matter that much for residency applications, at least.

No feedback on interviews yet, but my first interviews are coming up in the next two weeks, so you'll be sure to see me posting about program feedback.

Hope this helps, and good luck on your psych rotation!
 
you should get four recommendation letters -- no more than two from psych, at least one from something as close to medicine as possible (primary care, peds, neurology would all be good), your last one from something else of your choice (as long as it's not psych)
I don't think that this is a hard and fast rule; actually if you go to UNC's website they actually say that they prefer four letters that are all psych. I think that the better thing to do would be to simply get letters from the four people who you think will write you the best letters. And at least two should be psych.
 
Thanks for the tips and advice.
Did you always know that you wanted to go into psych? If not, how did you come to the choice? I've talked to a few psychiatrists, and although they are happy in what they do, I still hear a lot about how many other psychs are having a hard time out there.
P.S. What do you think about a ObGyn rec letter? The director asked to write it, but should I even bother if I want to go to psych?
Thanks!
 
Originally posted by lu2003
Thanks for the tips and advice.
Did you always know that you wanted to go into psych? If not, how did you come to the choice? I've talked to a few psychiatrists, and although they are happy in what they do, I still hear a lot about how many other psychs are having a hard time out there.
P.S. What do you think about a ObGyn rec letter? The director asked to write it, but should I even bother if I want to go to psych?
Thanks!

Hey, if the director asked to write it, jump on it -- you know it'll be terrific. An amazing letter is always worthwhile, particularly from someone high-profile, no matter what the specialty of the writer. Most of your attendings would be able to comment on your intelligence, knowledge, people skills, etc., anyway. Just make sure the ob/gyn writer makes it a generic letter, and not one saying you plan to be an ob/gyn!

I didn't mean to make the advice on recs sound like a hard-and-fast rule, BTW. It was just what my associate program director told me, knowing that I had two psych letters and one medicine letter -- I was told to try to get one more non-psych letter. And indeed, when I checked out UCSF's site, I found that UCSF asks for two psych letters and two non-psych letters. But obviously programs vary a lot in what they want; you may be safest just requesting letters in a variety of rotations, from any that you think will be good, and assigning a different set to each program depending on what it requests.

As for why psych...shall answer this in your other thread. :)
 
Top