A little advice... Prestige of medical school?

[DrJD]

Thank you in advance!

I am going to be starting medical school this Fall and am going to need to decide on a medical school. As a non-trad my life experience is leading me towards Radiation oncology. I am fairly certain that this is the field that I'd like to practice in, although I know that many people change their minds during third year. That being said, I do intend to get involved in research as an M1 in Rad Onc.

My question: In choosing a school, how important is prestige? More specifically, when deciding between the University of Arkansas and the University of Cincinnati will either help or hurt me in my eventual quest for Rad Onc?

UAMS - Has a rad onc department but no residency. Places their graduates largely into primary care, but I think that is mainly because of the students it attracts.

U Cinc. - Ranked 40ish in USNEWS and has a rad onc residency.

If I were to boil the question down it would be this: If I were to have the same grades, same rank, same amount of research and same step scores would I have the same chance at matching into Radiation Oncology from either school? I would really appreciate any of your thoughts. I know I may change my mind eventually, but given my high level of interest and the competitiveness of the field I'd like to give myself every opportunity.

Thank you!

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[Pewl]

I'd go cinci.

 

[radonc]

not only does prestige matter but the fact it has a residency program and its location. since since is in the midwest, you would get more hits from the other midwest programs (osu, ccf, case,beaumont, wayne, mich, hf, etc). not sure if arkansas draws interest from tx or fl...the 2 states in the south with multiple programs.

Thank you in advance!

I am going to be starting medical school this Fall and am going to need to decide on a medical school. As a non-trad my life experience is leading me towards Radiation oncology. I am fairly certain that this is the field that I'd like to practice in, although I know that many people change their minds during third year. That being said, I do intend to get involved in research as an M1 in Rad Onc.

My question: In choosing a school, how important is prestige? More specifically, when deciding between the University of Arkansas and the University of Cincinnati will either help or hurt me in my eventual quest for Rad Onc?

UAMS - Has a rad onc department but no residency. Places their graduates largely into primary care, but I think that is mainly because of the students it attracts.

U Cinc. - Ranked 40ish in USNEWS and has a rad onc residency.

If I were to boil the question down it would be this: If I were to have the same grades, same rank, same amount of research and same step scores would I have the same chance at matching into Radiation Oncology from either school? I would really appreciate any of your thoughts. I know I may change my mind eventually, but given my high level of interest and the competitiveness of the field I'd like to give myself every opportunity.

Thank you!

 

[nod]

i agree. if you are serious about rad onc, you need to go to the school with the best rad onc program (out of your choices), and they should have a residency program. your home program should become your strongest advocates. for students that have no home programs, they can do away rotations and get letters from big names, but they do not treat you the same as if you were one of their own.

 

[mikedc813]

i agree. if you are serious about rad onc, you need to go to the school with the best rad onc program (out of your choices), and they should have a residency program. your home program should become your strongest advocates. for students that have no home programs, they can do away rotations and get letters from big names, but they do not treat you the same as if you were one of their own.

agreed

 

[IndyXRT]

I agree with the posts above. It is less about the reputation of your medical school (although you certainly don't want to go to a bad medical school), and more about the reputation of the radiation oncology department. If you are able, it will make your life much easier if you go to a medical school with a radiation oncology residency program. Therefore, of the two choices you specifically named, I would go with Cincinnati.

 

[DrJD]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I really appreciate it. I am glad that it has all been the same advice it makes it easier to taken in and apply

If anybody else has any specific advice, or general advice about the prestige or starting off M1 "knowing" you want to do rad onc I'd be more than happy to hear it. But really, thank you to those who helped!!!

 

[Brim]

Go to Cinci, even if only for the Skyline Chili.
Skyline rules.

 

[ONCinferno]

It definitely makes a difference where you go to school when applying to Rad Onc. I know several people who failed to match even though their scores were outstanding, they were AOA, and they had research. Their common failing was no home Rad Onc program or a really weak one. I am not saying it can't be done, but it will be a much easier road going to a school with a strong department.

 

[copperfrog09]

It definitely makes a difference where you go to school when applying to Rad Onc. I know several people who failed to match even though their scores were outstanding, they were AOA, and they had research. Their common failing was no home Rad Onc program or a really weak one. I am not saying it can't be done, but it will be a much easier road going to a school with a strong department.

Is there any ranking/ way to know what programs are strongest? I'm trying to make a different decision, albeit with different schools (Emory, U of KY, U Miami, and waiting on hold statuses at Mayo and Case).

All of them have a residency, I believe, but beyond that point is there any difference between programs?

 

[MHotep]

I think that it is a shame how much our specialty looks at medical school prestige, I think it is looked at far more in rad onc than most specialties. If you have candidate A who went to Ivy League schools for college and medical school, and candidate B who went to some small state school but did far superior on his steps, shouldn't B have the advantage not A because of some ridiculous pedigree. I feel like step I/II are the great equalizer and that it's b.s. that many of the top tier programs toss great applications because of the name of the medical school that the applicant is from.

I have to disagree with the utility of board scores, especially Step1.

Board scores are probably most predictive of ones ability to pass future board exams (which is VERY important), but that is why most programs just have cut-offs. They think, "ok this person got a >220, they should be able to pass the Rad Onc boards." I am not sure if there is any additional data demonstrating productivity with higher board scores. My guess would be that there is a threshold, but I really do not think that there would be much difference, if we look 20 years from now between the people in rad onc who scored 220-240 vs. 240-260.

One major confounder with board scores is that many "top tier" med schools do nothing to prepare its students for board exams--no preclinical mini-boards or shelf exams throughout 1st or 2nd year.

 

[MHotep]

I too understand your argument.

The problem is: Step 1 is being used for something that its creators had no intention for it to be used as. This is especially true if you consider what the scope of the exam is: basic science. I have tried to "pub med" searching the positive predictive value of USMLE Step 1 scores, but have been unable to find anything. It is a standardized exam and is best at indicating how well someone will do on subsequent standardized exams.

If every radiation oncology chair had to take Step 1 tomorrow, how many could actually pass? How many could pass Step 2 tomorrow or Step 3? Probably less than less than 10% (and I'm being generous). I think that program directors do consider Step 1, but when it comes down to tough decisions it is just one exam, and in terms of PR would it be better for let's say--MCV or Duke (guys not participating this year)--to say that they just matched 2 medical students from Harvard or 2 medical students with 265 on Step 1? Programs do not advertise board scores of their residents, but they definitely advertise what med school they attended.