21c ?

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Radz08

Radz08

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Given all of the chaos at 21 C would anyone consider working there?
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Rad onc is cool. It supports a huge multi-state corporation, so big it was once publicly traded on Wall Street, that offers employment opportunities for all graduating residents.

Rad onc is awful. It supports a nefarious, misbehaving corporation that has generated controversy for over a decade, and it exploits newly graduated residents as its underlying business model.

Flip a coin and take your pick ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
prodigy2003 said:
Given all of the chaos at 21 C would anyone consider working there?
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I can't speak to the chaos now. I will say that I agree with hybrant that it depends. The organization has its issues. We talk about them like they club baby seals and it would be easy to think that working for them could get you blacklisted. N=1 here, but one of my former coresidents took a job with them right out of residency in a medium-sized city. He loved working there. I don't remember all of the details but for whatever reason it only lasted two years. He had no problem quickly getting a sweet PP gig in a coastal metropolis and is loving life. If there is a practice that is otherwise appealing to you on paper I don't see a reason to completely rule it out just because its 21c. Vet them like you would any other place. High turnover = not thanks.

I also remember hearing about the non-compete clause Gator eluded to above. The first offer he got had the dumbest non-compete I have ever heard of. It covered so many miles from ANY 21c. No one should be willing to live with that kind of stipulation.
 
It is still nuts to me that the guy in charge is also in charge of our boards!!!
 
evilbooyaa said:
I imagine the fort myers 21c currently being advertised on the ASTRO jobs board is particularly problematic because that's where the current lawsuit (and eviction) is playing out?

Source: Five things to know about 21st Century Oncology's continuing legal troubles
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Sounds like the FL governor is getting involved

www.staugustine.com

DeSantis involved in clash between doctors, center

TALLAHASSEE — A free-swinging fight between four doctors and a major Florida-based cancer treatment company they’re now trying to break free from has gotten a new referee: Gov. Ron DeSantis. A 35-p…
www.staugustine.com
 
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www.staugustine.com

DeSantis involved in clash between doctors, center

TALLAHASSEE — A free-swinging fight between four doctors and a major Florida-based cancer treatment company they’re now trying to break free from has gotten a new referee: Gov. Ron DeSantis. A 35-p…
www.staugustine.com
[/QUOTE]

That is an interesting article.

“I want to take care of patients; I don’t want these skills to just dry up,” said Dr. Michael Katin, a Fort Myers doctor who helped co-found 21st Century almost 40 years ago but is one of the four looking to end the non-compete agreement. Katin, 70, plans to start commuting to Binghamton, N.Y., to practice oncology outside the range of the company and his non-compete.

That's only a 1,300 mile one way commute. See still plenty of jobs out there even on the coast for a 70-year-old!
 
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Binghampton is very far away from being an "East Coast" locale. Very small and rust belt.
 
I believe that’s where Katin is from. But he’s a multimillionaire and made out like bandit in 21c heyday. His share trades were listed with the SEC. He’s about as unemployed or hard up as Elon Musk was after he got booted from being Tesla’s CEO.
 
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Ya I was being tongue and cheek. Binghamton, N.Y., is a fairly bleak upstate NY town. I wonder if he took a job there rather then just retire so he could have standing in the lawsuit? If so, I really applaud his efforts on that front.
 
fiji128 said:
Ya I was being tongue and cheek. Binghamton, N.Y., is a fairly bleak upstate NY town. I wonder if he took a job there rather then just retire so he could have standing in the lawsuit? If so, I really applaud his efforts on that front.
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I just think it's funny that what is good for the goose isn't for the gander.

These guys were happy to use FL non compete law/legal precedence when they were at 21c in its heyday, likely to screw new grads to the practice when needed, but want to get rid of it since they are on the other side of it now.
 
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medgator said:
I just think it's funny that what is good for the goose isn't for the gander.

These guys were happy to use FL non compete legal precedence when they were at 21c in its heyday, but now want to get rid of it since they are on the other side
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Radonc in a nutshell. 5 years ago they were worried about whether subpar residents would pass the boards. No longer a problem when you don't match 15% of slots. Whatever is convenient can be made to work. That goes for anything from noncompetes, to board exams, to residents, to protons.
 
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Florida non-compete law is genuinely horrible. There is no consideration for the hardship on the employee. It's entirely based on the financial implications of the employer and is more restrictive than most other states. See: https://www.hrdefenseblog.com/2014/...-floridas-non-compete-law-is-truly-obnoxious/

In many states non-competes are illegal, "unenforceable", or difficult to enforce unless it's a very clear scenario. In Florida it's like a competition to see how long and how big the non-compete can be. If the 21c situation changes the non-compete law in Florida, than at least something good can come out of the Florida 21c monopoly.

I do think it's sad that it takes a very rich person getting screwed over by the law to attempt to change the law. The same law was probably used to screw over former employees that Katin oversaw. Oh yeah, This is America, nevermind.
 
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Neuronix said:
Florida non-compete law is genuinely horrible. There is no consideration for the hardship on the employee. It's entirely based on the financial implications of the employer and is more restrictive than most other states. See: https://www.hrdefenseblog.com/2014/...-floridas-non-compete-law-is-truly-obnoxious/

In many states non-competes are illegal, "unenforceable", or difficult to enforce unless it's a very clear scenario. In Florida it's like a competition to see how long and how big the non-compete can be. If the 21c situation changes the non-compete law in Florida, than at least something good can come out of the Florida 21c monopoly.

I do think it's sad that it takes a very rich person getting screwed over by the law to attempt to change the law. The same law was probably used to screw over former employees that Katin oversaw. Oh yeah, This is America, nevermind.
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I've seen both sides of it.... And I will tell you that non compete law has protected smaller, independent practices from having their seasoned partners poached by the hospital practice to compete in the same area where they have established referral patterns.

And I have heard of unreasonable ones being struck down or watered down, even in FL. The problem is you have to pay the legal bills to get to that point.
 
scarbrtj said:
I believe that’s where Katin is from. But he’s a multimillionaire and made out like bandit in 21c heyday. His share trades were listed with the SEC. He’s about as unemployed or hard up as Elon Musk was after he got booted from being Tesla’s CEO.
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Can't blame him for the hustle, you never know when the next recession will hit.
267926
 
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L
CaliXRT said:
Can't blame him for the hustle, you never know when the next recession will hit.
View attachment 267926
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Let's not forget, they still own the land. Effectively, without the noncompete, what have the buyers really brought? A few machines? This was a shell company from the beginning. This isn't about a rich guy getting what's right- i.e getting out of a noncompete. It's about a rich guy trying to con a group of other rich guys- twice.
 
sphinx2019 said:
L

Let's not forget, they still own the land. Effectively, without the noncompete, what have the buyers really brought? A few machines? This was a shell company from the beginning. This isn't about a rich guy getting what's right- i.e getting out of a noncompete. It's about a rich guy trying to con a group of other rich guys- twice.
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Yup.... The smart practice owners that sold to McKesson/vantage, 21c/oncure etc just sold the practices and equipment, and kept the buildings for additional rental income.... They probably could profit again in the 7-8 figure range when it comes time to sell all of the buildings and vaults associated with those practices.

If rad onc was a publicly traded stock, it was time to get in during the late 90s and get out less than a decade later. Now it seems like a short
 
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Any news on the alternative payment model that is rapidly approaching per HHS secretary.
 
Representatives of 21st Century Oncology argue that the doctors simply want to set up a competing practice and are using claims of illegal business practices as a means of getting out of their employment contracts.

They note that all were longtime, high-level employees who were participants in the very company practices they now condemn.

www.news-press.com

Former 21st Century Oncology docs suing over contracts win Florida lawmakers' backing

Cancer doctors suing 21st Century Oncology to get out of their non-compete contracts may have found a quicker path to win: the Florida Legislature.
www.news-press.com
 
"would invalidate such employment agreements for specialty doctors — in this case, radiation oncologists — working for providers that employ all such specialists in a given county."

So it will only apply to them and not whoever they hire in their new practice since there will then be two practices in the county (21c and their new practice). Nice. How much money does it take to buy yourself a bill that only applies to you and allows you to then screw over whoever comes after you?
 
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Neuronix said:
. Nice. How much money does it take to buy yourself a bill that only applies to you and allows you to then screw over whoever comes after you?
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You can ask their (ex) lobbyist Andrew L. Woods. He is currently one of the many plaintiffs suing them at the moment. 202 465 8711

This is public btw including the phone number.
 
domestique said:
You can ask their (ex) lobbyist Andrew L. Woods. He is currently one of the many plaintiffs suing them at the moment. 202 465 8711

This is public btw including the phone number.
Click to expand...

What a joke. These guys came from Harvard/Yale, and worked intimately with many prominent academics (Wallner, UCLA chair).
 
Certainly no one can claim a moral high ground in this lawsuit. Sounds likes its all about greed and money on both sides. I wonder if these clowns are able to set up an new practice in town what kinda of non compete they will require their new hires to sign.
 
sphinx2019 said:
What a joke. These guys came from Harvard/Yale, and worked intimately with many prominent academics (Wallner, UCLA chair).
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Follow the money! Funny how PW who runs 21st remains in charge of our boards, peaking into rooms during oral boards, etc.
 
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medgator said:
Quite the turnover this year

'radiation OR oncology OR positions OR in OR flida OR STATECODE:"FL"' Jobs | ASTRO Radiation Oncology Career Center

3,434 'radiation OR oncology OR positions OR in OR flida OR STATECODE:
careers.astro.org careers.astro.org

'radiation OR oncology OR openings OR in OR califnia OR STATECODE:"CA"' Jobs | ASTRO Radiation Oncology Career Center

3,434 'radiation OR oncology OR openings OR in OR califnia OR STATECODE:
careers.astro.org careers.astro.org
Click to expand...

That fraud factory? Wouldn’t want to be anywhere near that nonsense. Ofcourse the bulk of 21C is in the state of Florida that beacon of above board medicine.
 
RadsWFA1900 said:
That fraud factory? Wouldn’t want to be anywhere near that nonsense.
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Hard to disagree with that.

Who could forget these biggies?


www.news-press.com

21st Century Oncology pays $35M to settle federal investigation

21st Century Oncology will pay $35 million to settle claims that it billed for medically unnecessary imaging tests
www.news-press.com

www.justice.gov

Fort Myers Urologist Agrees To Pay More Than $3.8 Million For Ordering Unnecessary Medical Tests

Fort Myers, FL – United States Attorney A. Lee Bentley, III announces that Meir Daller, M.D. has agreed to pay $3.81 million to the government to resolve allegations that he violated the False Claims Act by causing claims to be submitted to federal health care programs for laboratory tests that...
www.justice.gov www.justice.gov

And this one which is actively going on:

www.news-press.com

21st Century Oncology, Florida Cancer Specialists hit with antitrust lawsuit

Florida cancer companies sued for alleged illegal collusion
www.news-press.com
 
medgator said:
Hard to disagree with that.

Who could forget these biggies?


www.news-press.com

21st Century Oncology pays $35M to settle federal investigation

21st Century Oncology will pay $35 million to settle claims that it billed for medically unnecessary imaging tests
www.news-press.com

www.justice.gov

Fort Myers Urologist Agrees To Pay More Than $3.8 Million For Ordering Unnecessary Medical Tests

Fort Myers, FL – United States Attorney A. Lee Bentley, III announces that Meir Daller, M.D. has agreed to pay $3.81 million to the government to resolve allegations that he violated the False Claims Act by causing claims to be submitted to federal health care programs for laboratory tests that...
www.justice.gov www.justice.gov

And this one which is actively going on:

www.news-press.com

21st Century Oncology, Florida Cancer Specialists hit with antitrust lawsuit

Florida cancer companies sued for alleged illegal collusion
www.news-press.com
Click to expand...
www.news-press.com

21st Century Oncology paying $19.75M to settle federal case

Fort Myers-based 21st Century Oncology has agreed to pay $19.75 million to settle a federal investigation of improper Medicare and Tricare billing practices, federal authorities announced Friday.
www.news-press.com
 
medgator said:
That was my first link. Amazing how one organization like that can be involved with that many Medicare qui tam lawsuits. Has to be a record
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Yea these guys are awful
 
Neuronix said:
Several of our grads have gone to work for 21c. Not a whole lot of choices out there, especially in some Florida and California markets.
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They've been buying up practices left and right for over a decade.... Overpaying like crazy (in many cases) in the process. Between that and the Medicare settlements, bankruptcy was a forgone conclusion
 
Neuronix said:
Several of our grads have gone to work for 21c. Not a whole lot of choices out there, especially in some Florida and California markets.
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Can they at least make improvements within the system? I’m sure they are not all entirely bad people but I’ve experienced some non kosher practice with multiple docs in 2 different systems.
 
RadOncDoc21 said:
Can they at least make improvements within the system? I’m sure they are not all entirely bad people but I’ve experienced some non kosher practice with multiple docs in 2 different systems.
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I've heard non kosher things from a dosimetrist that temped there several years ago. Seems like there are issues all around
 
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As someone who has some experience with the company, I can say that the pay can be good and tech is OK, as the company is still working themselves out the bankruptcy from 2 years back. They have a hard time getting new capital expenditure approved ( 4DCT, new machines, etc. ). I'm sure the company is facing other legal trouble not listed here. The lawsuits speak for themselves about culture but generally don't effect the day-to-day operations. The work one performs in the company reflects the financial and legal reality there to some extent.

If anyone is thinking of taking the jobs listed in California, be sure to look up the history of that particular practice, know what you're getting yourself into. Definitely ask the previous physicians specifically why they left. Seems like a big coincidence to have 2 jobs in the same company, both within striking distance of the bay area, at the same time.
 
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PRAD_ONC said:
If anyone is thinking of taking the jobs listed in California, be sure to look up the history of that particular practice, know what you're getting yourself into. Definitely ask the previous physicians specifically why they left. Seems like a big coincidence to have 2 jobs in the same company, both within striking distance of the bay area, at the same time.
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Vs the FL jobs where you basically will be competing against former 21C docs who likely have established referral bases and an axe to grind with your infamous employer with whom they are actively litigating their restrictive covenant.

Enjoy being a pawn in that $h!#fest!
 
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medgator said:
Vs the FL jobs where you basically will be competing against former 21C docs who likely have established referral bases and an axe to grind with your employer with whom they are likely litigating their restrictive covenant. Enjoy being a pawn!
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Caveat emptor!
 
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medgator said:
Looks like GenesisCare (formerly 21c) is posting some jobs.... Definitely heard the Asheville practice was a revolving door a few years ago when it was under 21c... Juniors getting screwed and leaving after a few years

'radiation OR oncology OR in OR asheville OR nc OR STATECODE:"NC"' Jobs | ASTRO Radiation Oncology Career Center

3,434 'radiation OR oncology OR in OR asheville OR nc OR STATECODE:
careers.astro.org careers.astro.org
Click to expand...

Theres an older gentleman who used to work there. I wonder if he was given the boot or left or died or something because I definitely rememebr hearing abut this place.

I would not trust 21C or whatever iteration of the same garbage this is.
 
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medgator said:
Looks like GenesisCare (formerly 21c) is posting some jobs.... Definitely heard the Asheville practice was a revolving door a few years ago when it was under 21c... Juniors getting screwed and leaving after a few years

'radiation OR oncology OR in OR asheville OR nc OR STATECODE:"NC"' Jobs | ASTRO Radiation Oncology Career Center

3,434 'radiation OR oncology OR in OR asheville OR nc OR STATECODE:
careers.astro.org careers.astro.org
Click to expand...
21C is still running it.. don’t let the rebranding fool you. Same grimy core.
 
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