WashU vs CCLCM vs Yale vs Vanderbilt

[Thenewguy02]

I'm pretty stuck even between the four schools. Final financial aid hasn't come out yet, but I'll be at the unit loan level for two schools (Yale and WashU(potential for merit aid here as well)). I've been accepted to all but Yale - I'm on their wait list and I have a substantial update I can send them with a LOI if I decided that is the direction I want to take. I am very interested in academic medicine and I am open to living in an area I don't like (read: anywhere but the PNW), but my goal is to do residency on the west coast.

Yale (112k based off of COA)

Pros:
+Freedom in Academics
+Open Classes
+Near the Ocean
+Can Travel to NYC for the day
+Smaller City
+Wilderness Medicine Department
+Grad level IM's

Cons:
- Climbing gym in New Haven isn't the best
- I grew up working a farm - didn't seem to have much in common with the current students



WashU (112k based off of COA)

Pros:
+Toxicology Department
+Student Corrals
+Great Climbing Scene (Climb So ILL)
+ Not a huge city
+Cardinals Baseball
+Rotations are close

Cons:
- Landlocked (but better than Cleveland)
- Separate from the rest of the grad campus
- Didn't stay with a student host, can't say much about their culture
-- Everything is flat


CCLCM (130k based off of COA minus tuition cost)
Pros
++Cleveland Clinic
+Research oppertunities
+Academic Freedom
+Lebron James
+Friend at CWRU

Cons
---Cleveland (and its climbing scene)
- 32 class size
- 5 year program (great for research, but it would feel delayed)


Vanderbilt (132k based off of COA minus 75% tuition
Pros
+Climbing Scene
+Felt like I fit in with my background
+Music City
+1 year preclinicals (students seemed to really like it, gave them more time later for research)

Cons
-Highest debt
-Lower Ranked


The most important thing for me is to hear opinions on the schools, I think all of them will allow me to match where I want to. I love the outdoors, hiking, climbing, basketball, and the ocean. I don't want to weigh too heavily what I would do in my leisure time, but I am afraid I might. I also think that my debt will be lower than estimated. I've been living right at the poverty line for 5 years now - it is what I'm used to and I can get by with little.

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[efle]

Can't answer without actual costs ! Wait a few more weeks then update.

Should send the update to Yale. Can't hurt.

 

[slippydubloons]

Should send the update to Yale. Can't hurt.

disagreed. if it's an LOI sending it in, getting accepted, and then turning it down is a ****ty thing to do. i wouldn't send it for a little while until you're sure that's where you want to go

 

[efle]

disagreed. if it's an LOI sending it in, getting accepted, and then turning it down is a ****ty thing to do. i wouldn't send it for a little while until you're sure that's where you want to go

Should send the update to Yale

I think they should know of the pub or whatever, increase odds of truly having Yale as an option, I have no opinion on the whole LOI thing for this or any other school

 

[slippydubloons]

I think they should know of the pub or whatever, increase odds of truly having Yale as an option, I have no opinion on the whole LOI thing for this or any other school

then agreed!

 

[slippydubloons]

And as for OP's original question, I can offer my $0.02:

1) Throw rank out the window at this points tbh they're all great institutions and at a similar level in quality

2) I grew up in a situation similar to you, and similarly felt disconnected from the Yale students at my interview there who seemed very "ivy" through and through. On the other hand, the Yale system and the entire curriculum/nature of the university are probably the best of the list IMO. I didn't enjoy my time visiting WashU in the past and so I didn't apply, CCLCM is a great program but I agree with the 5 year nature seeming a bit delayed and since you're self-described as low-income threshold the tuition-free nature of the school (a big drawing point of the school imo) is gone there. Also consider how CCLCM is PBL-based and whether you want that as your lecture style. I think Vanderbilt is a great great place and personally I love the idea of spending additional time in clinic + the cool research time.

At this point I'd say Vanderbilt ~ Yale >> CCLCM ~ WashU

3) You want to do academic medicine/match on the west coast:

I think Yale matches something like ~16 people at UCSF alone and, considering its small class size, that's remarkably impressive. I've seen Yale grads match in very impressive places throughout the country so if you put in the work you'll very likely get rewarded. Also, the Yale "name" is probably best FWIW which may be impt if you want to go into academics. I know people argue that WashU also trains good academics and I agree but I'd say that is w/respect to its MSTP program.

Overall I'd say probably Yale for you. The grad-level IM program is robust in fun and can make up in some ways for the not-as-robust climbing scene that's one of your cons, and while I think some of the people there I didn't click with I'm sure you'll be able to find people that you can connect with and/or maybe we'll meet if I also decide to pursue the WL path there haha

(Disclosure: Also WL at Yale, didn't apply WashU or CCLCM, post-secondary rejected at Vandy)

I'm open to discussion about this, keep in mind these are my opinions !

 

[efle]

Vanderbilt ~ Yale >> CCLCM ~ WashU

Interesting how the two places you didn't apply/interview get the >> position haha

I was very impressed with WashU though I'm biased in the opposite direction and have enjoyed living/working here for a few years now. Again you need financials though. Vandy and WashU both tend to offer fat merit aid packages to a good number of people. I wouldn't agree about the Yale name or match list beating out WashU, though honestly at this level it's all pretty moot because these schools match people well all over the country every single year and will all have the resources to get you prepared for academic med

 

[slippydubloons]

Interesting how the two places you didn't apply/interview get the >> position haha

I was very impressed with WashU though I'm biased in the opposite direction and have enjoyed living/working here for a few years now. Again you need financials though. Vandy and WashU both tend to offer fat merit aid packages to a good number of people. I wouldn't agree about the Yale name or match list beating out WashU, though honestly at this level it's all pretty moot because these schools match people well all over the country every single year and will all have the resources to get you prepared for academic med

I definitely don't claim to know whether Yale's match list "beats" WashU's as that's not something I really look into or think can be quantified in any form, I'm just providing my own opinion from my time living and working at various academic hospitals (admittedly they have all been on the east coast so there is likely some coastal bias at play).

It likely is mostly moot bc at this point because the OP can become a very successful academic from any of these institutions.

Also I'm not certain whether your first sentence was satirical or not (#internetproblems) BUT yeah it's not surprising in the least haha it would've probably been very odd from an outsider's perspective had the two groups been flipped!

 

[Thenewguy02]

I think they should know of the pub or whatever, increase odds of truly having Yale as an option, I have no opinion on the whole LOI thing for this or any other school

Sounds like a plan. I think I'll send in the update. I should probably have done it before the decision date - it isn't a publication, but at this point it is over 1000 hours of community service, and will be over 1700 hours by the summer. It is what I have been doing over my gap year. I didn't realize it wasn't in my application at Yale until both interviews asked about my gap year.

And as for OP's original question, I can offer my $0.02:

1) Throw rank out the window at this points tbh they're all great institutions and at a similar level in quality

2) I grew up in a situation similar to you, and similarly felt disconnected from the Yale students at my interview there who seemed very "ivy" through and through. On the other hand, the Yale system and the entire curriculum/nature of the university are probably the best of the list IMO. I didn't enjoy my time visiting WashU in the past and so I didn't apply, CCLCM is a great program but I agree with the 5 year nature seeming a bit delayed and since you're self-described as low-income threshold the tuition-free nature of the school (a big drawing point of the school imo) is gone there. Also consider how CCLCM is PBL-based and whether you want that as your lecture style. I think Vanderbilt is a great great place and personally I love the idea of spending additional time in clinic + the cool research time.

At this point I'd say Vanderbilt ~ Yale >> CCLCM ~ WashU

3) You want to do academic medicine/match on the west coast:

I think Yale matches something like ~16 people at UCSF alone and, considering its small class size, that's remarkably impressive. I've seen Yale grads match in very impressive places throughout the country so if you put in the work you'll very likely get rewarded. Also, the Yale "name" is probably best FWIW which may be impt if you want to go into academics. I know people argue that WashU also trains good academics and I agree but I'd say that is w/respect to its MSTP program.

Overall I'd say probably Yale for you. The grad-level IM program is robust in fun and can make up in some ways for the not-as-robust climbing scene that's one of your cons, and while I think some of the people there I didn't click with I'm sure you'll be able to find people that you can connect with and/or maybe we'll meet if I also decide to pursue the WL path there haha

(Disclosure: Also WL at Yale, didn't apply WashU or CCLCM, post-secondary rejected at Vandy)

I'm open to discussion about this, keep in mind these are my opinions !

1) I think I agree with you here, although the CCLCM or Yale name might have more sway than Vanderbilt.
2) I almost felt like it was something out of the movie Pitch Perfect when I was there (a capella and all). Not necessarily a bad thing, but not the lifestyle I am used to - or if I even want to live a lifestyle like that.
3) My go to hang out place is at the climbing gym. I don't want to loose that outlet. They have some world class climbing in NYC, but that's ~2 hours away. I think the Yale or WashU school would likely be the best (CCLCM maybe the best for an even larger academic focus). I've looked at all the match list, and it looks like if I wanted to stay at WashU an IM residency is almost a given at Barnes-Jewish. Very strong program, but definitely not on the east coast. Toxicology is what I am currently leaning towards and that would mean an EM residency. EM residencies are not generally ranked.

 

[slippydubloons]

Sounds like a plan. I think I'll send in the update. I should probably have done it before the decision date - it isn't a publication, but at this point it is over 1000 hours of community service, and will be over 1700 hours by the summer. It is what I have been doing over my gap year. I didn't realize it wasn't in my application at Yale until both interviews asked about my gap year.




1) I think I agree with you here, although the CCLCM or Yale name might have more sway than Vanderbilt.
2) I almost felt like it was something out of the movie Pitch Perfect when I was there (a capella and all). Not necessarily a bad thing, but not the lifestyle I am used to - or if I even want to live a lifestyle like that.
3) My go to hang out place is at the climbing gym. I don't want to loose that outlet. They have some world class climbing in NYC, but that's ~2 hours away. I think the Yale or WashU school would likely be the best (CCLCM maybe the best for an even larger academic focus). I've looked at all the match list, and it looks like if I wanted to stay at WashU an IM residency is almost a given at Barnes-Jewish. Very strong program, but definitely not on the east coast. Toxicology is what I am currently leaning towards and that would mean an EM residency. EM residencies are not generally ranked.

1) Everyone's gonna have their own opinion on this but you could argue that, yeah
2) A lot of good schools have a capella groups for their students lol it's not just a Yale thing
3) I thought you wanted to do residency/practice on the west coast? If that's the case then Barnes-Jewish isn't where you'd want to be (although admittedly a fantastic training hospital).

I know you're into the climbing scene and I'm unfamiliar with that realm and so can't advise you there.

I wish you the best in your choice haha

 

[Skenti]

I'm so confused...how can you say vanderbilt will be the highest debt? Are you assuming Wash U and Yale will both give you a full tuition scholarship? With 4 schools this good I would think difference in cost would play a major role, so why even ask at this point without that info? If anything, assume WashU and Yale will be full price...

Maybe I'm just missing something?

 

[Thenewguy02]

I'm so confused...how can you say vanderbilt will be the highest debt? Are you assuming Wash U and Yale will both give you a full tuition scholarship? With 4 schools this good I would think difference in cost would play a major role, so why even ask at this point without that info? If anything, assume WashU and Yale will be full price...

Maybe I'm just missing something?

WashU and Yale both have a need based loan limit of 28k. My income and my parents is under their 100k threshold, so by default the maximum debt would be 28k times 4.

 

[Skenti]

WashU and Yale both have a need based loan limit of 28k. My income and my parents is under their 100k threshold, so by default the maximum debt would be 28k times 4.

I interviewed at WashU and they didn't mention anything about 100k income or below qualifying for full tuition automatically, where did you get that from?

 

[theNDhopeful44]

1) Everyone's gonna have their own opinion on this but you could argue that, yeah
2) A lot of good schools have a capella groups for their students lol it's not just a Yale thing
3) I thought you wanted to do residency/practice on the west coast? If that's the case then Barnes-Jewish isn't where you'd want to be (although admittedly a fantastic training hospital).

I know you're into the climbing scene and I'm unfamiliar with that realm and so can't advise you there.

I wish you the best in your choice haha

Yale and WashU are both schools I'd pay the full COA for just because of how much weight those names carry. I think something that's often overlooked is that, as a physician, you will be able to pay off the debt you accrue from school, regardless of where you go and what specialty you enter. From what you've posted, I'll concur with everyone else here in saying that it sounds like you'd be happiest at Yale (seeing that you get off the waitlist), followed by WashU (also FWIW, one of my good friends from college is a nationally ranked rock climber and he LOVES the gyms in St. Louis).

The only thing that's different from CCLCM and the other three schools is, as you know, the extra year. If you like research but don't want to spend 5 years in medical school (and likely most of those in Cleveland, unless you do your research year/elective rotations in other cities), the other fine schools on your list will give you excellent opportunities to pursue your interests.

My own disclaimer: I'm on the alternate list at CCLCM, was rejected pre-II by Vanderbilt, and didn't apply to WashU or Yale (my stats weren't nearly high enough).

 

[WedgeDawg]

Yale sends more people (percentage-wise) into academic medicine than any other school (or at least so they say). 50% of students there take a 5th year for research.

That being said, all of these schools are excellent and put you in a good place to enter academic medicine. I would say that Yale, WashU, and Vandy have a slight edge over Lerner, but I wouldn't pick them over Lerner just for that slight edge. It looks like you'll be happiest at Vandy or Yale. The Northeast has a good outdoor climbing scene. I know med students here in NYC that go out and climb outdoors during the spring and summer - I'm sure there are people at Yale who do the same. IMO this should be a decision between Yale and Vandy.

 

[mw18]

Yale System. Pick Yale.