U. of Arizona vs. Indiana

[j-snake]

I know many people will look at the title and groan and tell me that only I can make the decision about where to go, but I am really on the fence on this one and would appreciate others' opinions on the matter. I know that the decision ultimately comes down to where my wife and I feel like we best "fit", but I like both programs so much that it is hard to let go of the other and give it a #2 spot.

As far as I can tell, there are many similarities between the two programs: three years, county and university training sites, EMS and Tox fellowships along with combined Peds/EM training programs, plenty of trauma, EDs see both Adult and Peds patients, older, well-established programs, cool residents, great faculty.

Some of the big differences are, of course, location; and the number of months dedicated to the emergency department. Any additional thoughts, impressions, or insights into these programs would be much appreciated.

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[EctopicFetus]

Uh if you have specific Qs pm me....

I turned down my Indiana interview but we have an attending from there. Anyways good luck.

I love Az!

Location IMO should be the #1 reason if the other factors havent done it for you...

 

[mikecwru]

I know many people will look at the title and groan and tell me that only I can make the decision about where to go, but I am really on the fence on this one and would appreciate others' opinions on the matter. I know that the decision ultimately comes down to where my wife and I feel like we best "fit", but I like both programs so much that it is hard to let go of the other and give it a #2 spot.

As far as I can tell, there are many similarities between the two programs: three years, county and university training sites, EMS and Tox fellowships along with combined Peds/EM training programs, plenty of trauma, EDs see both Adult and Peds patients, older, well-established programs, cool residents, great faculty.

Some of the big differences are, of course, location; and the number of months dedicated to the emergency department. Any additional thoughts, impressions, or insights into these programs would be much appreciated.

If all else are fairly equal, you should go to the location where you will be the happiest. More importantly, you have to go where your significant other would be happiest.

Note: "happiest" does not always equal sunny, you have to think about this and only you can decide

mike

 

[EctopicFetus]

Sunny = Happy and no SAD to me..

Good luck!

Oh and i agree with mike.. go where you and the SO will be happiest, location and otherwise.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Other small things to consider tucson is a smaller city than indy, no pro bball or pro football (I dont know if this matters), of course PHX is close.

One of the things I told applicants was that we dont have a lot of black patients which is much different than when I was a student in chicago. I believe they are like 10% of our visits which is not like Cook County which is prob like 60-70% by my estimate..

Tremendous trauma here with some and not a lot of penetrating...

Good luck again!

 

[GeneralVeers]

If I'd never been to either city before, I'd take Arizona based on location. No snow, close to Vegas, the mountains, grand canyon.

The patient populations are different as well. Arizona is going to be mostly Hispanic, whereas Indianapolis has mostly black (at Wishard) and white patients (at Methodist).

 

[Jambi]

lol, snow in Tuscon --> http://fireflyforest.net/firefly/2007/01/22/snow-in-tucson-january-of-2007/

 

[Hawkeye Kid]

Uh if you have specific Qs pm me....

same goes for me, only in the other direction. i love indy and would be happy to PM you with the reasons why (you touched on many of them). as for location/weather, who doesn't love single-digit highs? it is exciting being in a city with a super bowl team, though i did kinda grow up as a bears fan...

 

[EctopicFetus]

it snowed 2 weeks ago today.. so what did poeple do? The went to mt lemmon and snowboarded... Right now it is 65 in tucson...

 

[EctopicFetus]

IMO you cant go wrong either way, also i believe we got funding for a few more spots...

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I know many people will look at the title and groan and tell me that only I can make the decision about where to go, but I am really on the fence on this one and would appreciate others' opinions on the matter. I know that the decision ultimately comes down to where my wife and I feel like we best "fit", but I like both programs so much that it is hard to let go of the other and give it a #2 spot.

As far as I can tell, there are many similarities between the two programs: three years, county and university training sites, EMS and Tox fellowships along with combined Peds/EM training programs, plenty of trauma, EDs see both Adult and Peds patients, older, well-established programs, cool residents, great faculty.

Some of the big differences are, of course, location; and the number of months dedicated to the emergency department. Any additional thoughts, impressions, or insights into these programs would be much appreciated.

U of A Grad here <----biased

I ranked Arizona # 1 and Indiana # 4. I liked the Indy "program" better but liked the people and the city better at Arizona, plus we had a bit more social support in Arizona (wife's grandparents lived in Phoenix.) Those were honestly the big factors I weighed. I was happy with my decision. I had a med school buddy who went to Indy and really liked it. If you are choosing between two programs of that caliber, you won't go wrong. Flip a coin.

Pros for me at Indiana: Two hospitals (now Arizona has two), helicopters (I flew a couple of times at Arizona), Reputation (Arizona also very good, but more of a "regional great program" as opposed to a "national great program" whatever that means), volume (not all that significant as the Patient:Resident ratio was about the same between the two places when I applied), lots of ICU time.

Pros for me at Arizona: I really fit in with the people. The quality of the faculty is outstanding. Fantastic airway training. Good Tox training. Tons of Trauma (in fairness, I think Indy had plenty too.) Great location for someone who loves mountains and the outdoors. Great ICU rotations (surprised me).

Negatives at Indiana: People were a bit "militant" and "intense" if you get my drift. White Castle way too close. Indianapolis sucks for someone who grew up out West. Go Colts!

Negatives at Arizona: Ectopic Fetus is really weird. and Frank shifts. Maybe a little too laid back (is there such a thing?) The University Hospital ED backs up really badly in the winter (serious overcrowding issues), although they are currently expanding it, and who knows, maybe Indy is just as bad. For some reason, the University Hospital in Tucson doesn't see very many STEMIs. Unsure exactly why. There are enough, but you aren't exactly drowning in them. Not much HIV, no Sickle Cell (was that a positive or a negative?), and tons of Pima Indian Diabetic cholelithiasis!

 

[GeneralVeers]

Negatives at Indiana: People were a bit "militant" and "intense" if you get my drift.

I agree with your statement. I rotated through Indy, and put in tons of time at their county hospital, and ranked it #1. They get great training, but some of the attendings are uptight, and the program has the reputation for being "full of itself". The program director is a good guy, but odd, and sometimes makes med students cry with his intensity.

 

[EctopicFetus]

U of A Grad here <----biased

I ranked Arizona # 1 and Indiana # 4. I liked the Indy "program" better but liked the people and the city better at Arizona, plus we had a bit more social support in Arizona (wife's grandparents lived in Phoenix.) Those were honestly the big factors I weighed. I was happy with my decision. I had a med school buddy who went to Indy and really liked it. If you are choosing between two programs of that caliber, you won't go wrong. Flip a coin.

Pros for me at Indiana: Two hospitals (now Arizona has two), helicopters (I flew a couple of times at Arizona), Reputation (Arizona also very good, but more of a "regional great program" as opposed to a "national great program" whatever that means), volume (not all that significant as the Patient:Resident ratio was about the same between the two places when I applied), lots of ICU time.

Pros for me at Arizona: I really fit in with the people. The quality of the faculty is outstanding. Fantastic airway training. Good Tox training. Tons of Trauma (in fairness, I think Indy had plenty too.) Great location for someone who loves mountains and the outdoors. Great ICU rotations (surprised me).

Negatives at Indiana: People were a bit "militant" and "intense" if you get my drift. White Castle way too close. Indianapolis sucks for someone who grew up out West. Go Colts!

Negatives at Arizona: Ectopic Fetus is really weird. and Frank shifts. Maybe a little too laid back (is there such a thing?) The University Hospital ED backs up really badly in the winter (serious overcrowding issues), although they are currently expanding it, and who knows, maybe Indy is just as bad. For some reason, the University Hospital in Tucson doesn't see very many STEMIs. Unsure exactly why. There are enough, but you aren't exactly drowning in them. Not much HIV, no Sickle Cell (was that a positive or a negative?), and tons of Pima Indian Diabetic cholelithiasis!

Im super weird. I will also say I have had 2 sicklers but thats it. At cook county i had 3 per shift.

The other hospital (Kino) which desperado never worked is much more down and dirty county. Lots of changes there.

 

[Hawkeye Kid]

I agree with your statement. I rotated through Indy, and put in tons of time at their county hospital, and ranked it #1. They get great training, but some of the attendings are uptight, and the program has the reputation for being "full of itself". The program director is a good guy, but odd, and sometimes makes med students cry with his intensity.

i'm about as un-uptight as you will find and i like 99% of our attendings (ie. on some shifts i don't like 1 or 2 of them, but for the most part, i like them all) and i have really enjoyed my short time at IU. as for the "full of itself" rep, i guess i can't speak to it, since i'm part of "it" now but i don't really think that's true. most of what desperado said about UoA is true about here, minus the mountains, etc. i'm not sure was meant by the white castle comment. i agree that if the you're losing sleep over the two, just decide and be done.

so that you can know where i'm coming from: i grew up in the midwest, had no reason to stay in the midwest, rotated at indy, did not apply to UoA but applied to programs in every region, didn't find a program that did everything as well as indy did, ranked IU #1 and matched here.

that's that. again, if you have IU-specific comments, i'm a short PM away. oh, and right now i'm rotating in the ICU and...oddly enough...loving it. GO (SUPER BOWL XXI CHAMPION) COLTS.

 

[j-snake]

I appreciate all of your responses. I am at a "white castle" place right now with plenty of sickle cell. I like the laid back atmosphere at the U of A, but I wonder if I would be challenged more by being at Indy. I speak Spanish and was hoping to work a lot with the Hispanic population. Someone told me that Wishard sees a lot of Hispanic patients (but I'm sure it is only a tenth of what they see at Kino).

Family is also an important factor. My folks want me to go back West. My wife's grandparents also live in Phoenix. However, my wife likes the trees and grass in the Midwest and our kids could use the open space. We could probably get more "house" in Indiana, and I think the schools would be better. Also, Indiana pays the health and dental for the family, and they have moonlighting basically built in to the program the second and third years. Because I am the only source of income for a family of five, money is a slight factor.

Right now it is 8 degrees outside and I would give anything to be in Tucson. My wife is a little concerned about dealing with the Tucson summers and being trapped inside all day.

Any other thoughts are much appreciated, especially with regards to the livability of the two places for families.

 

[j-snake]

Hawkeye,

I didn't see your post as I was composing my own. I think the White Castle comment has to do with Midwest obesity epidemic. There is a White Castle a few blocks from my home and most of the people I see there look like they have gravy running through their veins. They show up in the hospital with the consequences of diabetes/obesity: stinky, non-healing wounds and such.

I have a few more days to make the decision. My wife says that she is going to just leave it up to me. I am sure that I will be happy at either place.

Congrats to the Colts.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Also, Indiana pays the health and dental for the family, and they have moonlighting basically built in to the program the second and third years. Because I am the only source of income for a family of five, money is a slight factor.

Family health insurance here would run you about 125 a month. They did just give a nice pay bump. I think PGY-1 will be around 42K our state tax is on a progressive but I would guess you would pay 2% or less esp if you are a fam of 5 with one income.

Right now it is 8 degrees outside and I would give anything to be in Tucson. My wife is a little concerned about dealing with the Tucson summers and being trapped inside all day.

Frankly the mornings are nice even in the summers and when in the shade it isnt too bad. No humidity also makes a difference esp since I am currently in miami where humidity is super high.

Any other thoughts are much appreciated, especially with regards to the livability of the two places for families.

I would guess Indy is cheaper than Tucson but I dont know. If you want to look at homes in Tucson the best real estate website for Tucson is www.tarmls.com otherwise for national stuff last yr I found homestore.com to be helpful in general.

hope this helps and good luck.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Hawkeye,

I didn't see your post as I was composing my own. I think the White Castle comment has to do with Midwest obesity epidemic. There is a White Castle a few blocks from my home and most of the people I see there look like they have gravy running through their veins. They show up in the hospital with the consequences of diabetes/obesity: stinky, non-healing wounds and such.

I have a few more days to make the decision. My wife says that she is going to just leave it up to me. I am sure that I will be happy at either place.

Congrats to the Colts.

Congrats to the colts as well. Im happy for manning and co.

Also tucson is a super fit city and the residents tend to be outdoorsy. Anyways g/l again..

 

[EctopicFetus]

and they have moonlighting basically built in to the program the second and third years. Because I am the only source of income for a family of five, money is a slight factor.

Ok a few more things. Somehow I feel compelled to help

PGY-1 salary next yr will be $42,686, they are talking about ways to get us to work as PGY2 and 3s in our urgent care making some extra cash.

Otherwise right now our residents (not me since i am a pgy-1) work at urgent care or in an ED. Pay is amazing. Ill PM you how much our guys have told us they are making cause I dont think that is appropriate info for all.

Also in the interest of full disclosure our PD is not a big fan of moonlighting but is supportive per the upper levels.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I appreciate all of your responses. I am at a "white castle" place right now with plenty of sickle cell. I like the laid back atmosphere at the U of A, but I wonder if I would be challenged more by being at Indy. I speak Spanish and was hoping to work a lot with the Hispanic population. Someone told me that Wishard sees a lot of Hispanic patients (but I'm sure it is only a tenth of what they see at Kino).

Family is also an important factor. My folks want me to go back West. My wife's grandparents also live in Phoenix. However, my wife likes the trees and grass in the Midwest and our kids could use the open space. We could probably get more "house" in Indiana, and I think the schools would be better. Also, Indiana pays the health and dental for the family, and they have moonlighting basically built in to the program the second and third years. Because I am the only source of income for a family of five, money is a slight factor.

Right now it is 8 degrees outside and I would give anything to be in Tucson. My wife is a little concerned about dealing with the Tucson summers and being trapped inside all day.

Any other thoughts are much appreciated, especially with regards to the livability of the two places for families.

Now that we know what you're looking for, we can give a bit more specific advice.

You will speak WAAAAY more Spanish in Tucson.

You can buy WAAAAY more house in Indianapolis.

The weather is MUCH nicer in Tucson. Even when it is hot outside, it isn't too bad in the early morning or late evening. No, you can't go running outside at noon in July for more than 15 minutes, but try running in Indy in January. Especially if you have family in Phoenix, it is very liveable in Tucson.

Indy may be nice for moonlighting. It can certainly be done in Arizona. You can probably support your small family either place on a resident salary, but your standard of living will be slightly higher in Indy.

You may be "challenged" more at Indy. I'm not sure anyone can answer that for you as no one has completed both residencies!

Good luck. Just be glad you have the luxury of choosing between two great programs. The two programs are sufficiently different that if you can decide what is more important to you it should be an easy decision. Remember, it is the people that make the difference. Go where you feel you fit in.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Oh FWIW we got approved for 16 spots plus the 2 for Peds EM.. My class had 13 categorical plus 2..

So 3 extra spots.. Good luck.

 

[j-snake]

Thanks for the info guys. The PD at Indiana is not a fan of moonlighting either, but he allows it in house and he lets seniors do it with permission. I know a lot of people feel like you are shooting your future self in the foot by letting un(fully)trained physicians staff an ED on their own but I still think that with the amount of loans I will have, and the size of my family, things will get pretty tight.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Thanks for the info guys. The PD at Indiana is not a fan of moonlighting either, but he allows it in house and he lets seniors do it with permission. I know a lot of people feel like you are shooting your future self in the foot by letting un(fully)trained physicians staff an ED on their own but I still think that with the amount of loans I will have, and the size of my family, things will get pretty tight.

Yeah I dont know if you know but the 2 of them (the PDs) know each other very well.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Also in the interest of full disclosure our PD is not a big fan of moonlighting but is supportive per the upper levels.

Hasn't turned anyone in good standing down. I'm not sure the pay is amazing, but the place I worked was $80 an hour. There is one place in town where you babysit vents at night for $50/hour. There are a few urgent cares around that pay $80. If you are willing to drive to Globe (2 hours) or out to the Res (1 hour but they pay you for your driving time) you can make a bit more.

Don't choose your residency based on moonlighting opportunities. That should go way down your list. Faculty, residents, location, and clinical opportunities, in that order, will ensure your happiness.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Hasn't turned anyone in good standing down. I'm not sure the pay is amazing, but the place I worked was $80 an hour. There is one place in town where you babysit vents at night for $50/hour. There are a few urgent cares around that pay $80. If you are willing to drive to Globe (2 hours) or out to the Res (1 hour but they pay you for your driving time) you can make a bit more.

Don't choose your residency based on moonlighting opportunities. That should go way down your list. Faculty, residents, location, and clinical opportunities, in that order, will ensure your happiness.

Agreed. Everyone has the shot. Also Casa Grande $100 per hour.. Not shabby esp considering another place i interviewed they didnt have a moonlighting option over $35 per hour running codes.. 24 hour shifts with 0-3 codes per shift.. IMO I would rather work the 12 hours and make the money.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Oh and I agree dont pick your job based on moonlighting. IMO thats thinking backwards. But if everything else truly balances out (which I doubt) I guess this could be a factor.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Also Casa Grande $100 per hour.. .

Either they gave a 25% raise in 6 months, or someone is feeding you a line....

 

[EctopicFetus]

Either they gave a 25% raise in 6 months, or someone is feeding you a line....

Nah someone I know and trust. It isnt Urgent Care though.. it is working in the main ED there. It has also been verified by one of the people who moonlights at northwest who I discussed moonlighting with.

 

[EmPedsDo]

Though I'm not even close to residency yet, I thought I'd put my two cents in. I'm originally from the Indy area and have worked with many EMs that trained in Indy. I can honestly say they were all great physicians (not that U of A grads aren't). As far as the city and raising a family there, I don't know that you could ask for more! There are so many things to do with your family and GREAT communities to live and get involved (you know, in your spare time ). Obviously, I'm partial to Indy, but honestly feel you can't go wrong with their program and the city!

 

[The White Coat Investor]

I don't know that you could ask for more! There are so many things to do with your family and GREAT communities to live and get involved (you know, in your spare time ).

Let's see...how about some decent skiing, climbing, mountain biking etc? Would it be possible to get some of that?

 

[EMfosho]

i know indiana is supposed to be this great program and all...but then why is not pulling residents from all over? Programs like cinci, denver, harbor, uc davis, vandy, pitt all have residents who come from all over to be there. but when im looking at indy's current residents, at least 95% are from the midwest, and no "big name" schools (not that that is important, but just noticed some "big name" schools" at the other mentioned programs.

any thoughts?

 

[j-snake]

i know indiana is supposed to be this great program and all...but then why is not pulling residents from all over? Programs like cinci, denver, harbor, uc davis, vandy, pitt all have residents who come from all over to be there. but when im looking at indy's current residents, at least 95% are from the midwest, and no "big name" schools (not that that is important, but just noticed some "big name" schools" at the other mentioned programs.

any thoughts?

I went to a "big name" school. I put Indiana as my number one last year, but I am happy at my number two. I was told by a program director that Indiana isn't necessarily selective, but "picky." Whatever that means.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I went to a "big name" school. I put Indiana as my number one last year, but I am happy at my number two. I was told by a program director that Indiana isn't necessarily selective, but "picky." Whatever that means.

I imagine indiana and U of Az are similar. They are looking for a type of resident rather than the school their degree might have come from.

Of course we have people from all over the country including some big name med schools. My experience though is the place you went to med school has almost no bearing on how good of a doc you are. It really is personal.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I imagine indiana and U of Az are similar. They are looking for a type of resident rather than the school their degree might have come from.

Of course we have people from all over the country including some big name med schools. My experience though is the place you went to med school has almost no bearing on how good of a doc you are. It really is personal.

Agreed. We have people from "big names" like UCLA, and Illinois, but we also have people from those "Caribbean schools". Some of the Caribbean grads are actually better docs than the big name people.

If big name snob appeal is what you seek, then your priorities are misplaced.

 

[EMfosho]

its not snob appeal...just looking at other "top" programs in the midwest like cinci - they seem to pull students from all over the country.

indiana seems only to have residents from the midwest - take a look for yourself.

arizona has peeps from all over - harvard, duke, west coast and arizona. the reason i asked is, if i'm the only one going to a program from outside of the area, there must be a reason.

likewise, if many people at a program in a not so great location (cinci for example) are from out of town, that's a very good sign, in my opinion.

sorry for any confusion, and i appreciate your input (as do others on here, i guess).

-thanks!

 

[Hawkeye Kid]

i'm not going to spend a lot of time defending the program, but i personally wouldn't consider any of the following places to be "midwest."
utah
california
florida
texas
philly
denver
NYC
arizona

we have residents from all of those places. does cinci have more? maybe, but i don't have time to dissect their website, so i can't say for sure. so i'm not sure there's much to that theory. as for "big name schools," i agree with EF, GV, et al.

you really have to look at the program, look at yourself/what you want, and decide if the program will give you what you want. i wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about % residents from "big name schools" unless that's truly important to you (in which case, as others have said, you should probably reeval your priorities).

 

[tegs15]

Location IMO should be the #1 reason if the other factors havent done it for you...

Eptopic seems to like Tucson. I've split my 30+ years of living between the Midwest (NE, MO & TX) and Arizona. Location is definetly important and IMHO Tucson is the pits! PM me if you have specific questions but I've had family live there and I have done lots of business in Tucson and would never move there.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Eptopic seems to like Tucson. I've split my 30+ years of living between the Midwest (NE, MO & TX) and Arizona. Location is definetly important and IMHO Tucson is the pits! PM me if you have specific questions but I've had family live there and I have done lots of business in Tucson and would never move there.

I didn't realize that Tucson wasn't all that good. What in particular is wrong with it?

I lived in Indy for 6 years and would say that it's probably the most "liveable" city in the midwest, low cost of living, lots to do, decent weather, and not a lot of traffic.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Really depends on what you are looking for. From people who have been here a while the city has changed a lot so I dont know if you have been here recently, but the weather is nice. There is first class hiking, road biking and mountain biking here. Dont know what you are looking for but tucson is a nice place.

 

[totalbodypain]

Eptopic seems to like Tucson. I've split my 30+ years of living between the Midwest (NE, MO & TX) and Arizona. Location is definetly important and IMHO Tucson is the pits! PM me if you have specific questions but I've had family live there and I have done lots of business in Tucson and would never move there.

I am a little supprised by this remark as well. I have been in some pits and wouldn't have put tucson high up on that list. It is no New York when it comes to night life (with the exception of the area around the university), but it has lots going in way of natural beauty. It is surronded by mountains with lots of outdoor activities. It is warm year round and hot in the summer but not the stifling humid heat that you get back east and in the midwest in the summer. I thought that most of the neighborhoods (with the exception of the south side) were beautiful and clean and fairly affordable. Who knows maybe I have been living in too many crap holes to have a clear view.

 

[edinOH]

what's the spread?

 

[tegs15]

Maybe my strong personal dislike for Tucson comes from having lived in many other parts of Arizona! If I had to choose a loc in AZ to live the only places lower on my list than Tucson would be Douglas and Nogales. Yes, I realize that this doesn't really matter to Snake. I'm just trying to justify/understand my own reasoning. Cities like Prescott, Flagstaff, Gilbert, Chandler, Payson, and even Mesa have much higher appeal to me than Tucson.

Compared with other cities in AZ and cities similar in size througout the Midwest that I've lived in (Amarillo, Lubbock, Omaha, Springfield MO, Fort Worth and others), I've always felt that Tucson was just a DIRTY and dangerous town. Of course there are other places much, much worse in both catagories. Even Indianapolis is a realitively dangerous city (more than Tucson even). But Tucson has always occupied that title of "armpit" in my mind (whether or not it rightly should).

 

[arod]

Maybe my strong personal dislike for Tucson comes from having lived in many other parts of Arizona! If I had to choose a loc in AZ to live the only places lower on my list than Tucson would be Douglas and Nogales. Yes, I realize that this doesn't really matter to Snake. I'm just trying to justify/understand my own reasoning. Cities like Prescott, Flagstaff, Gilbert, Chandler, Payson, and even Mesa have much higher appeal to me than Tucson.

Compared with other cities in AZ and cities similar in size througout the Midwest that I've lived in (Amarillo, Lubbock, Omaha, Springfield MO, Fort Worth and others), I've always felt that Tucson was just a DIRTY and dangerous town. Of course there are other places much, much worse in both catagories. Even Indianapolis is a realitively dangerous city (more than Tucson even). But Tucson has always occupied that title of "armpit" in my mind (whether or not it rightly should).

You forgot beautiful places like Eloy, Safford and Casa Grande! All far cleaner and safer than Tucson.
I know you're all smart enough not to let something unfounded like this post dissuade you from coming to Tucson. But just in case - I've been in Tucson for 12 years and love this place. If anyone has any specific questions just ask.

 

[EctopicFetus]

ill have my 2 cents later

 

[EctopicFetus]

Maybe my strong personal dislike for Tucson comes from having lived in many other parts of Arizona! If I had to choose a loc in AZ to live the only places lower on my list than Tucson would be Douglas and Nogales. Yes, I realize that this doesn't really matter to Snake. I'm just trying to justify/understand my own reasoning. Cities like Prescott, Flagstaff, Gilbert, Chandler, Payson, and even Mesa have much higher appeal to me than Tucson.

Compared with other cities in AZ and cities similar in size througout the Midwest that I've lived in (Amarillo, Lubbock, Omaha, Springfield MO, Fort Worth and others), I've always felt that Tucson was just a DIRTY and dangerous town. Of course there are other places much, much worse in both catagories. Even Indianapolis is a realitively dangerous city (more than Tucson even). But Tucson has always occupied that title of "armpit" in my mind (whether or not it rightly should).

I will defend tucson a little here. Ill start out by saying I do like it here but it really depends on what you are looking for in a city. If you want the NYC, LA, Chicago scene you WILL NOT get it here. The people who are happiest here tend to be those who like good weather, enjoy hiking, biking etc and just enjoy being outside.

I have lived in Miami, Tallahassee, Philly, NYC, Chicago, Cincy, Atlanta, and now tucson (all in my adulthood), and spent a month in Orlando.

Calling Tucson "dangerous" is somewhat of a joke. Seeing it that I work at the only level 1 trauma center in town and the ONLY hospital on the south side, I am curious what you mean by Dangerous?

Parts of Detroit, DC, Chicago and other places are dangerous.. Tucson not so much.

So using per capita murder rates..

http://www.morganquitno.com/cit04r.pdf

Tucson is 80th in the nation.
Amarillo 158th
Lubbock 123rd
Omaha 195
Springfield MO 179
Fort Worth 109, Dallas 25th..

Indy is 50th

Heck San Diego and Gainesville are low on the list.. maybe the poster should go there.

I people who worry about these should take into account much of the violent crime in all cities is compartmentalized. If you live in the "right" parts of town this is much much less of a problem.

Anyways.. have fun.. Tucson is great. Heck so are the other cities I mentioned.

 

[Hawkeye Kid]

So using per capita murder rates..

http://www.morganquitno.com/cit04r.pdf

Tucson is 80th in the nation.
Amarillo 158th
Lubbock 123rd
Omaha 195
Springfield MO 179
Fort Worth 109, Dallas 25th..

Indy is 50th

sometimes i wonder how much of this has to do with marksmanship. in both med school and residency (different cities) i have been amazed at the number of shootings/stabbings that lead to very non-life (and limb) threatening injuries. unless they were TRYING to shoot off that guy's little toe...

 

[WallowaWanderer]

sometimes i wonder how much of this has to do with marksmanship. in both med school and residency (different cities) i have been amazed at the number of shootings/stabbings that lead to very non-life (and limb) threatening injuries. unless they were TRYING to shoot off that guy's little toe...

So you're saying that an Arizonan is a better shot than a TEXAN??

 

[WallowaWanderer]

So using per capita murder rates..
http://www.morganquitno.com/cit04r.pdf

I knew Philly was in the top tier for something.

 

[Apollyon]

sometimes i wonder how much of this has to do with marksmanship. in both med school and residency (different cities) i have been amazed at the number of shootings/stabbings that lead to very non-life (and limb) threatening injuries. unless they were TRYING to shoot off that guy's little toe...

I always said (when I was EMS in Buffalo, NY) that, if you were fast, you got shot in the ass, and, if you were slow, you got it in the head. Again, though, variability!

 

[tegs15]

I will defend tucson a little here. Ill start out by saying I do like it here but it really depends on what you are looking for in a city. If you want the NYC, LA, Chicago scene you WILL NOT get it here. The people who are happiest here tend to be those who like good weather, enjoy hiking, biking etc and just enjoy being outside.

I have lived in Miami, Tallahassee, Philly, NYC, Chicago, Cincy, Atlanta, and now tucson (all in my adulthood), and spent a month in Orlando.

Calling Tucson "dangerous" is somewhat of a joke. Seeing it that I work at the only level 1 trauma center in town and the ONLY hospital on the south side, I am curious what you mean by Dangerous?

Parts of Detroit, DC, Chicago and other places are dangerous.. Tucson not so much.

So using per capita murder rates..

http://www.morganquitno.com/cit04r.pdf

Tucson is 80th in the nation.
Amarillo 158th
Lubbock 123rd
Omaha 195
Springfield MO 179
Fort Worth 109, Dallas 25th..

Indy is 50th

Heck San Diego and Gainesville are low on the list.. maybe the poster should go there.

I people who worry about these should take into account much of the violent crime in all cities is compartmentalized. If you live in the "right" parts of town this is much much less of a problem.

Anyways.. have fun.. Tucson is great. Heck so are the other cities I mentioned.

So eptopic you have definetly lived in much rougher cities than I. It seems I might have offended those that enjoy Tucson, that was not my intention. As proved by your above stats my experiences have been in lower crime cities so that is what I have to work with. Although Tucson is low on the list when compared to Dallas, Memphis , D.C etc., my personal experiences with crime in Tucson just must have been significantly above average.