Doctors sue Envision Healthcare, say private equity-backed firm shouldn’t run ERs in California

[deleted880510]

Doctors sue Envision Healthcare, say private equity-backed firm shouldn’t run ERs in California

The suit says California law bars corporations from practicing medicine. Many states have similar laws but haven’t invoked them.

www.nbcnews.com

"The lawsuit was filed by the American Academy of Emergency Medicine Physician Group, a unit of AAEM, a nonprofit professional medical association that provides administrative services to physician groups. For-profit Envision Healthcare says it is the country’s largest emergency medicine group, partnering with 540 health care facilities in 45 states. Envision is owned by KKR, the private equity powerhouse."

Why Not Anesthesia groups follow suit? PE has been destroying healthcare

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[narcotics999]

Wow, support!

When will ASA start a similar one? I guess never.

 

[gasdoc77]

Notice it is the AAEM that took action. Isn't this a grassroots effort that is separate from the American Board of Emergency Medicine (which has probably been infiltrated by PE much like the ASA has been infiltrated by AMC's)?

 

[Mman]

this particular lawsuit relates to the wording of a state law and how they have structured their company. Not exactly apples to apples in other states and specialties, although could be similar in some situations.

 

[IMGASMD]

this particular lawsuit relates to the wording of a state law and how they have structured their company. Not exactly apples to apples in other states and specialties, although could be similar in some situations.

Setting precedents for the big finale. 🤣

 

[kidthor]

Wow, support!

When will ASA start a similar one? I guess never.

Never.

They're in bed with corporate anesthesia so it's not in their global interests.

 

[nimbus]

Notice it is the AAEM that took action. Isn't this a grassroots effort that is separate from the American Board of Emergency Medicine (which has probably been infiltrated by PE much like the ASA has been infiltrated by AMC's)?

EM has 2 separate competing entities. The ACEP (American College of Emergency Physicians) which is in bed with private equity like the ASA and the AAEM (American Academy of EMERGENCY MEDICINE) which is not.

 

[kidthor]

EM has 2 separate competing entities. The ACEP (American College of Emergency Physicians) which is in bed with private equity like the ASA and the AAEM (American Academy of EMERGENCY MEDICINE) which is not.

AAEM seems awesome. Very physician and patient focused. I admire that they tell it like it is and advocate for the right things.

EM got completely decimated via corporate exploitation and an explosion of midlevels in an ultra-high risk field.

 

[Drwine]

I forwarded this to a friend who is an ER physician. His reply is as follows.
He’s an dingus - can’t keep a job - the lawsuit won’t work - it’s all propoganda to make AAEM look good

 

[IMGASMD]

I forwarded this to a friend who is an ER physician. His reply is as follows.
He’s an dingus - can’t keep a job - the lawsuit won’t work - it’s all propoganda to make AAEM look good

Who is the dingus?

 

[drdan4]

Never.

They're in bed with corporate anesthesia so it's not in their global interests.

I would be down with an alternative to the ASA given how ineffective they have been in protecting our Specialty. Better to have one now than when it all goes down in Flames like EM.

I am sure the logistics and financing aren't easy but the support is there. The ASA, having one of the richest PACs, have had minimal legislative victories in the last 20 years...literally squandering our money. I like the educational component of the ASA, the Advocacy not so much.

 

[GassYous]

I would be down with an alternative to the ASA given how ineffective they have been in protecting our Specialty. Better to have one now than when it all goes down in Flames like EM.

I am sure the logistics and financing aren't easy but the support is there. The ASA, having one of the richest PACs, have had minimal legislative victories in the last 20 years...literally squandering our money. I like the educational component of the ASA, the Advocacy not so much.

They have a nice new facility though! That they can't use because covid.

 

[kidthor]

I would be down with an alternative to the ASA given how ineffective they have been in protecting our Specialty. Better to have one now than when it all goes down in Flames like EM.

I am sure the logistics and financing aren't easy but the support is there. The ASA, having one of the richest PACs, have had minimal legislative victories in the last 20 years...literally squandering our money. I like the educational component of the ASA, the Advocacy not so much.

I'd be up for that too. To be fair I'd be a member of both. But it'd be nice to have an AAEM-like anesthesia adjunct as an option.

 

[Mman]

Setting precedents for the big finale. 🤣

the ruling in a state court won't be a precedent for anything in another state

 

[sevoflurane]

the ruling in a state court won't be a precedent for anything in another state

No but can influence a judges decision in another state.

 

[DirtDocMD]

Their failure to lobby for appropriate Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement for anesthesia, has made us dependent on hospital stipends, which has made our ability to practice subject to the whims of the hospitals/administration that funds these stipends. AMC’s come in, promising to “cut costs”, and then the private practice goes bye-bye.

When was the last time the ASA made a serious effort to lobby for higher reimbursement?? When have they gone to bat against corporate medicine?? What are they doing against the AANA??

Don’t worry, though! The paper shufflers have a shiny new office!! I bet they all left at noon, today, to start their Xmas vacation, while we all take call at the hospital...

 

[chessknt]

Their failure to lobby for appropriate Medicare/Medicaid reimbursement for anesthesia, has made us dependent on hospital stipends, which has made our ability to practice subject to the whims of the hospitals/administration that funds these stipends. AMC’s come in, promising to “cut costs”, and then the private practice goes bye-bye.

When was the last time the ASA made a serious effort to lobby for higher reimbursement?? When have they gone to bat against corporate medicine?? What are they doing against the AANA??

Don’t worry, though! The paper shufflers have a shiny new office!! I bet they all left at noon, today, to start their Xmas vacation, while we all take call at the hospital...

You realize no specialty is appropriately compensated by government insurance right? Outpatient specialties actively lose money on these patients, inpatient specialties that have a high mix also need subsidies.

 

[GassYous]

You realize no specialty is appropriately compensated by government insurance right? Outpatient specialties actively lose money on these patients, inpatient specialties that have a high mix also need subsidies.

But they get 80% while we get 20% if that.

 

[chessknt]

But they get 80% while we get 20% if that.

But your calculation of units is 4x higher per unit time easily than outpatient specialties who have huge overhead. A highly productive outpatient doc might see 6-8 units per hour before overhead (gotta pay ma, front office, rn salary + bennies in a competitive market), average far closer to 5ish units.

I’m not saying it isn’t bull**** for anesthesia to get kneecapped but it isn’t exclusively Anesthesia’s bull**** pie, we all get to have our share of charity care for the elderly.

 

[Mman]

No but can influence a judges decision in another state.

can it though?

I mean they can't cite it a ruling on California state law as it applies to a law in another state.

 

[sevoflurane]

can it though?

I mean they can't cite it a ruling on California state law as it applies to a law in another state.

Absolutely. I know this 100%.
That’s what lawyers do and I know that is currently being used in at least one AMC law suit.

 

[sevoflurane]

Lawyers can cite whatever they want in a court of law.

 

[Mman]

Lawyers can cite whatever they want in a court of law.

lawyers can, but judges don't really look to another state's law (since it doesn't apply)

 

[sevoflurane]

lawyers can, but judges don't really look to another state's law (since it doesn't apply)

Correct.